oaklandcrusader
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Posts posted by oaklandcrusader
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To the OP
You start off by saying you're not stuck in the past
And then the rest of your post contradicts that
Not sure what to say other than embrace change, it is the only thing that's constant!
I can understand why you feel that I contradicted myself at times but maybe it's because I have mixed emotions on some things...these were just my immediate thoughts and observations...not saying they're right or wrong -- just the way I felt...mostly, that I felt the shows were a little boring...yes, there are some things that I perfer from the past but I also mentioned plenty of things that I really liked as well about the present...I guess I'm hoping for a happy medium sometime down the road...
Cheers,
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Too much to answer properly right now, so I'll just quickly note that an audience of 7,000+ at Massillon the very next night saw Cadets, Crown, and Bluecoats cheered loudly for all of them--and responded warmly (to say the least) to the other five corps as well (Cascades, Oregon, Crest, Academy, and Spirit). These people were definitely entertained. I took eight people to that show who'd never been to a drum corps show before and of the six who could decide which corps they liked best, it was two for Cadets, three for Crown, and one for Bluecoats.
Glad you and your friends enjoyed the show...don't get me wrong, I love Drum Corps and believe me, I could see and hear and appreiciate all the talent that was out out there on that field -- I'm in no way questioning that at all...I guess what I was trying to say is that no one corps really excited me to the point where I wanted to stand up and cheer during their performance or that no one corps really gave me that wow factor that I was hoping for...maybe, if I see those corps again I'll feel different...
Cheers,
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I attended my first DCI Drum Corps show in 3 or 4 years on Monday August 5, 2013 in Buffalo...But before I begin with my thoughts and impressions of the show, let me first preface what I'm about to say by letting you know that I'm not someone who is stuck in the past or someone who doesn't believe in change or progress...Also, as a former member of the Oakland Crusaders Drum Line back in the mid to late 70's, I can certainly appreciate all the hard work, dedication and commitment that it takes from everyone involved to put on a show...
With that said, let me begin by saying I watched 7 of the top DCI Drum Corps perform which included the Cadets, Phantom Regiment, Santa Clara Vanguard, Carolina Crown, Bluecoats, Blue Devils and the Calvaliers...With that great lineup, I can't believe what I'm about to say -- I was bored stiff! ...I have performed in and watched hundreds and hundreds of shows over the years and I have never been so disappointed in the performances that I saw and heard as I was on Monday night... I wanted so badly for any corps to do something that would pull me out of my seat and make me stand up and cheer like I have so many times before -- whether it be an outstanding horn solo, an unbelievable drum break or a horn line playing a number so powerful that they almost blow the stands down...Sadly, for me that moment never came...Santa Clara came the closest but for more subtle reasons that are so classic of Vanguard -- their execution, precision and how amazingly clean they were...
So, without further delay here are some of my random thoughts, likes and dislikes :
*( did not get to see the Cadets show -- they just took the field and ushers would not let us thru the tunnel until they were finished )
Random Thoughts ( Overall Impressions )
-- Is it me or do most of the corps seem to lack their own personality and identity? ( Santa Clara one of the few exceptions -- have adapted to new age of drum corps but still true to their roots )
-- Maybe I should have bought a program which might have helped explain what each corps was trying to do but I didn't get or understand most of the shows -- that can't be good
-- Why are some corps allowed to play a street beat or cadence off the field and others not?
-- My absolute favorite part of going to a drum corps show is definitely watching the drum lines warm up in the lot before the show -- brings back memories of when everyone always crowded around us to watch us play
( wish YouTube was invented back then...lol )
-- $39 to see a drum corps show -- really? ... and why does the announcer introduce the corps 45 seconds into their show?
-- I don't know why but I've always liked corps that start their show from the end zone rather than the middle of the field -- different I guess?
-- Do we really need 20 people in the pit? -- I can't remember which corps it was but one corps pit was so loud I could barely the horns and the drums the whole show
-- I hate to say this but who ever came up with Phantom's show should be fired! -- not only was it boring and not entertaining but more importantly, the kids didn't look like they were having any fun out there
-- The talent level of today's drummers, horn players and color guard is exceptional -- too bad the shows aren't
-- Other than Madison and the Calvaliers, it still seems weird to me seeing guys in the color guard -- not that there's anything wrong with that
-- Not 100% sure but I think Santa Clara had the only cymbol line out there -- those guys are literally in a class by themselves not to mention the fact that they're amazing too!
-- It used to be that the General Effects were there to visually enhance and compliment the music -- now it seems like it's the other way around -- something is way out of whack here
-- The whole time I'm watching the shows I'm thinking in the back of my mind -- this looks like some sort of a drum corps video game or a track meet out there
-- Keeping their the long and great tradition of excellence in mind -- tell me the Blue Devils didn't just jump the shark this year? -- marching around 100 pylons out there -- really?
-- I'd like to meet all the idiots who put the together the concepts for some of these shows and ask them one question -- what were you thinking?
-- I have to give credit to all the performers out there -- how you can play and do all that running around out there is truly remarkable
-- Maybe it`s because I`m getting older but all the performers looked like they 14 or 15 yrs old
-- Is it really necessary to have a half hour break after the first 3 corps performed -- do you smell stadium and DCI money grab?
-- I wonder if the food they feed them is better than it was back when I marched? -- dumb question... guess it doesn`t take too much to improve on prison like quality food...lol
Likes & Dislikes
Drum Lines
Likes :
-- Was very impressed with the amount of talent in all the lines
-- Lots of great chops
-- Bass drum licks that all the lines play -- technology (sticks, heads and teaching tools) have helped bring that section up way beyond the next level
-- How clean Santa Clara`s entire line was
-- Bluecoats drum line especially their quads -- their line reminds me a lot of our Oakland Crusaders line when we were just starting to come into our own -- watch out for them!
-- Some of the stuff the Cadets were playing -- crazy!
Dislikes :
-- Nobody seems to play all 26 rudiments anymore -- sounds like a lot of taps and diddles to me
-- Nobody seems to have their own distinct sound or style -- I`ll argue that you could switch Devils line with the Cadets or Cadets line with the Crown etc and you wouldn`t notice much of a difference
-- Maybe I caught them on a off day but Blue Devils were slurring way too much
-- Wish the Bass drums today had a deeper sound
-- Did I mention the fact that I don`t like the sound of today`s drums -- Santa Clara was the best followed by Bluecoats
Horns
Likes :
-- Carolina Crown`s up and down rundown while they`re in that soft curve formation
-- All the horn lines playing technically difficult music while running around like Usain Bolt
-- How clean Santa Clara was
Dislikes :
-- Other than Santa Clara ( Les Miserables ) I didn`t recognize 90% of the music played by everyone else -- not necessarily bad but definitely odd for me
-- No real solos like we`re used to hearing -- how could all those corps have not one great solo?
-- No power -- I think it`s because 1) the types of horns they use today and the way they`re constructed...2) they have no wind left after doing all that running around out there
Color Guard
Likes :
-- The Rifles -- they`re back! ...was impressed with a lot the work and tosses from 3 or 4 of the corps
-- It`s not a new concept but I like the idea that the Rifle lines were also used on flags to make things much more visually enhanced
-- The Calvaliers used one particular flag at one point in their show that was visually eye catching and stunning
-- Was really impressed with the quickness and athleticism of everyone on the field -- to be young again...lol
Dislikes :
-- there is so much movement going on that it becomes distracting and confusing and you can`t take it all in or appreciate everything that`s going on
-- Do we really need all these dumb props that some of the corps are using just to make some sort of statement that -- Hey, we`re ahead of the curve!
Finally, to all you Show Coordinators out there -- remember, that sometimes less is more and that when you`re putting your show together that your 2 main goal should be :
1) Make sure that the marching members have fun and enjoy performing the show -- otherwise, what`s the point?
2) To entertain the audience -- not to try and impress the coordinators of the other corps with how smart you are and what a great visionary you are...I shouldn`t have to ask myself after watching your show -- what the hell was that??
Anyways, that`s my story and I`m sticking to it ( discuss amongst yourselves...lol )
Duz Ga Duz
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This one made me smile. The 1977 Oakland Crusaders drumline has to be included in anyone's list of best drumlines ever. What a smoking snare line!!! Downstroking done right, 16th/32nd interpretation of diddles instead of the slur-dog style of the day. Pure power drumming. Ahhhhhh......
Too bad the corps didn't make finals that year to close the deal on high drums (they won high drums in prelims that year but couldn't win the award because the corps was not in finals). Trust me, I loved the Devs line that year and I am happy they won high drums, but the Okies were probably the best line that year in my opinion. It's a shame there is not a video available so people can check out this great line.
Downstroking the Tom Float way...I don't understand the lines of today...nobody plays all the rudiments anymore -- it's all taps and diddles...i don't care what anybody says, if you don't stress downstroking -- your attacks won't be as clean, your releases not as crisp and you won't phase as much plain and simple...i know it's hard to play with all the drill work the lines have to do today but that's offset i think to a certain degree with the high tech heads and sticks etc...the other thing i noticed is that nobdy today has their own distinctive sound anymore -- everybody sounds the same and plays the same type of stuff ---back in the day you could tell if Blue Devils or SCV were playing in the distance or if you heard a bunch ticks in the air from afar you knew Madison was playing somewhere lol...if you get a chance listen to '76 Freelancers, listen to how their snares sound in their drum solo and compare it today or '76 Blue Devils tri line -- i think their tri's with the scoops underneath were called Northerns
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I know a couple of people who have videos..... There must be a number of them available. Have you tried DCW?
didn't find any there...who do you know that has the videos because i would love to get in touch with them...you can email me at -- ddumont@rogers.com ...there could be cash prizes in it for you lol...thanks
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If you're looking for some photos go to the Historical Drum Corps section of the Forums.
Repost this message there and you'll get some responses I'm sure.
There's also a thread there called "some old corps photos". TONS of great shots of Oakland sprinkled through 1000+ p[ages of posts. Try to contact a DCP member named "Byline". Her name is Sue and she probably has a bunch of pictures.
Congratulations - 30 years late!
thanks..i'll give a try
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'74 SCV -- In a class all by itself...No comparison to any other solo -- old or new school...Will always stand the test of time...The standard for which all other solo's should be judged.
on a side note I always liked '76 Freelancers solo...loved the way their always snares sounded
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hey...I remember Oakland's drumline well that year.....we had alot of shows with you (I was in 77 Crossmen), .....you might be happy to know, that on the field at finals, when they were getting ready to announce high percussion, and we were kind of assuming BD was going to win by "default", there were some shouts among multiple drumlines on the field who yelled...."Oakland"........I'm having some computer problems at the moment, but when I get them fixed....I do have your prelims performance on recording.........
GB
bob...thanks for the offer and i would be glad to take you up on that...please email me when you get back up and going...
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Hey everyone...I need some help from you good drum corps people out there...I was a member (bass drum) of the 1977 Oakland Crusaders drumline...This October we are going to have an Alumni Reunion -- part of the evening will be spent celebrating the 30th anniversary of our drumline making DCI history by sweeping drums at Prelims and our Corps unfortunately just missing the Finals...If anybody out there has any recordings, pics or especially videos of our corps from that year I would really appreciate it if you would get in touch with me...you can email me at -- ddumont@rogers.com
Thanks
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I don't know where you got your information but we were not a bunch of inner city kids who were in bad situations...we were typical everyday middle class kids...we were just not musically trained in the classic sense...we learned to play basically on our own and from our instuctors like most people who marched from that era...as for being unfocused until Tom Float got there -- that's not true either...the line wasn't too shabby in '74 and '75...Float certainly helped take us to the next level for sure in '76 and '77.
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Ok.. Here's what I know about them. A friend at the time, John Flores (Rodriquez) came down along with Earl Brown from the Commodores to march '75 Kingsmen. When we folded that year, he and many of the imports, along with Float and Patti Williams went up to Freelancers. From there, Float, Patti and Rod all went up to Etobicoke for the 76 and 77 seasons. Rod and I talked fairly often and he liked it up there. The guys were a bunch of inner city kids who had all grown up together and pretty much did drum corps 24/7 as a way to get away from their mostly bad situations. It was really Float's first line. He taught Kingsmen 75 but we never went on tour, and at Freelancers he was just more or less a helping hand to Paul Silva. Up there he had a chance to really do everything he ever wanted to do with a bunch of kids that had talent and desire, but no one to focus it until Tom got there.
I watched the prelims show at Boulder that afternoon and talked to John after they came off the field. They had beaten everyone all year long and it wasn't a surprise to anyone that they won drums, the thing they were all hoping for was that the hornline would do a good enough job to get them into finals, but in their hearts they already knew it wasn't going to happen. When they came off the field no one was happy, no one was smiling, they already knew they probably wouldn't make finals despite having the best drumline in the country. A lot of the guys aged out that year or just decided they wanted to go someplace else. Earl had stayed with Freelancers and talked Rod into marching the 78 season with him back home, and they ended up being a very good line in both the 77 and 78 years too
Earl is actually part of the Kingsmen alumni snareline with me, and he actually still lives about 8 miles away from Rod in Stockton. They talk all the time and he has tried to get him to march the Kingsmen Alumni corps but the time and distance commitments are hard to arrange. I hope to see him this summer, and I'm sure I will at nationals if nothing else. They are still one of the cleanest lines I've ever seen, and a great example of what hard work and commitment can do, and why Float is who he is.
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I'd have to say the 1977 Oakland Crusader Drumline of which i was member (Bass Drum) has got to be ranked right up there...We were instructed by Tom Float...We swept all the drum captions in Prelims beating Blue Devils and FreeLancers by 6 1/2 10ths...Unfortunately, our corps finished just out of top 12 that year...Our lines in '75 and '76 weren't too shabby either...For me '74 SCV and Kingsmen are right up there...
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cool, lemme give you some friendly advice.........next time you want to prop your own line, than do it........don't try to downplay another line to accomplish whatever point you are trying to make.
you're right, i guess my competitive juices got the best of me... again lol
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Not sure what you were watching, but Channel One in itself, with all the notes and such, would bring some of todays drummers to their knees.
hey legend, was not my intention to downplay the ability or accomplishments of your line that year because you guys were a very, very good line...just trying to put up an arguement to a couple of posts who considered you guys "gods" or basically head and shoulders above everyone else that year, which in my totally biased opinion i disagree with because we were virtually toe to toe with you guys the entire year...actually, '75-77 not much to choose between both our lines, we were that close to each other...
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Actually, the drum line was incredible for a number of reasons. First, the rudimental difficulty of the parts was off the charts for the entire battery. Second, the stick heights on the snare drumming (VERY high style) made playing these difficult parts even harder (hence, not quite as clean as the low-style, less difficult part-playing lines). Third, the ensemble intracacies of the parts, and the overall musicality (listen to the second "Clock" drum solo, for instance), while not quite where BD and SCV were, were also outstanding. Throw in some ridiculous drill moves (snares playing a forty-count roll to begin the show, with the snare line split four guys on each side of the 50-yard line, about 30 yards apart!!) - and well, the insanity never seemed to start.
All in all, a truly remarkable line. It was, as you heard, the "comparative" lack of cleanliness that did them in that year (though they were in second place at prelims). It was just impossible to sound like BD and SCV when playing those rudimental parts at the high sticking heights. Alas, it was fun, and gratifying to try!
you make some very good points which i can appreciate...however, maybe if they would have adjusted their style a little (found a balance between high style and low style) they could have had the best of both worlds -- juicy parts along with better execution...don't get me wrong, i like to watch old school drumming as well, but when you play a very high style you're prone to drag a little bit more and not be as crisp or tight on your attacks ...believe me, we learned that the hard way with Tom Float instructing us...
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Have to go with SCV and Kingsmen who I believe set the early standard for drumlines in the '70's and beyond...
Some random thoughts on the '76 season... (don't mean to offend
anyone)
- Did I miss something regarding the '76 Cavvies drumline...they had a nice bass drumline but were kinda average and not very clean...Their hornline however, could blow you out of the stands
-Most overrated drumline of the '70's were the Madison Scouts...never really played anything and when they did it wasn't clean
-'76 Blue Devils were one of my favorite shows of all time...They had a very good drumline but I didn't think their book was as difficult as some of the other top lines that year
- Always liked the '76 Freelancers drumming during their off the line (great Timbali player) and drum solo...likewise, 27th Lancers streetbeat marching off the field (one snare and one bass drummer playing) and Cavvies bass beat going off the field as well
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Sue, I've always been curious, how was the corps' unity that summer? With such a dominant section, I could see the possibility of friction between them and members of the horn line.
As member of the drumline and the person who posted this topic originally, i can assure you that the unity was great...we were like a family...the rest of the corps were really proud of us and pulling for us all the way as we were for them...not to blow our own horn (no pun intended), you have to remember that this wasn't anything really new for everyone as we were always one of the top 2 or 3 drumlines from "75 -78...
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I didn't march in '77; I joined the corps in '78, so I really can't answer that question. I heard a lot about it, of course, because it had happened the previous year, but I wasn't there during that season. John was, though. Paging John. . . .
Here's a story John wrote which is posted on the Del/Oakland alumni site: 1977 Crusaders
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I didn't march in '77; I joined the corps in '78, so I really can't answer that question. I heard a lot about it, of course, because it had happened the previous year, but I wasn't there during that season. John was, though. Paging John. . . .
Here's a story John wrote which is posted on the Del/Oakland alumni site: 1977 Crusaders
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Did Daryl Langworthy march with Oakies that year? I know he marched with SCV for three years after his year with Oakies.
name doesn't ring a bell...i marched in the drumline '76-78...what instrument did he play?
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Having rummaged through the shelves at the DCI office personally, I'd bet they don't have any 1977 prelim footage. If they ran any "preview" footage in the 1977 broadcast, it probably came from DCI Midwest in Whitewater, which was filmed for an edited "highlights" program. Unfortunately, Oakland Crusaders did not attend that show.
thanks for the reply...i think we did compete in whitewater but it was in "76
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he didn't march...he was our drum instructor...thanks for the reply
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Try tracking down Tom Float. I think he marched in that line, and might know who if anyone has it on video. good luck.
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Hi, I am a fromer member of the Oakland Crusader Drumline... In 1977, we won top drums in the prelims with a score of 18.85...Unfortunatly, our corps just missed making the finals that year...I was wondering if anybody out there in Drum Corps Land has a copy of our performance either on VHS or DVD they would be willing to sell...I've also posted in the Marketplace section as well...thanks
Random Thoughts From DCI Buffalo
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by oaklandcrusader
Thanks for your reply...you make a number of good points that I agree with and yes, when you haven't seen a show in a few years there is that little bit of "sticker shock " feeling...I think the marching that the corps are doing today is amazing but like I mentioned in my post -- it's to the point where it can be distracting at times and as you say, "The audience is often left trying to catch-up to things" --taking away from the overall enjoyment and appeciation of the performance...
Bottom line, as i mentioned before -- no one really excited me to the point where I wanted to stand up and cheer during their performance and I think most of the fans at the stadium agreed because the applause for the most part was kind of luke warm for everyone...the clapping was more of -- we appreciate your hard work and effort rather than... " Wow! I could watch you guys perform that show 20 more times! "
Cheers,