pearlsnaredrummer77
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Posts posted by pearlsnaredrummer77
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Hi Drum Corps Folks,
I'm clearing out some stuff I'm not using via Ebay that may be of interest:
Remo TSS 6 inch Extended Range Tom (Spock or effect?)
Used: Nice condition. Rare-can be used as Spock, effect or practice pad (put some foam in it,lol) "Buy it now" of $75.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221464380032?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
XL Brand Marching Snare Carrier
Vintage XL t-bar snare drum carrier (not j-hook style). This one was shortened and is best used for children, short folks or as parts. CHEAP. Nice condition for age. NO RESERVE!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221464391761?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Vintage Ludwig Timbales with Stand.
Really nice set-new heads.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221460928061?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
Vintage Gretsch Concert/Set Snare
I'd guess a circa late 1950s/early 1960s Gretsch snare drum, all parts seem working, metal snares good, heads elderly & shot. Shell is walnut color.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221443618648?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
Alesis QS6 Synth
Vintage synth-nice condition, with power cord and manual. Sounds D-50ish. Great little synth. Cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221464121538?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2648
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Promark (Xymox) Small Tenor practice pad (Quint arrangement) [sold]
Used fairly lightly, very small and portable, plus quiet-not the greatest pad feel. Decent for hacking about in apartments, tour bus, anywhere that you need to be quiet. A little scuffed up, but not bad. Cheap.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221443521652?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
Remo TSS Maximum Range Snare drum (rare) [sold]
Used, in good-excellent shape.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221443618457?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2648
Vintage Slingerland TDR 15 inch snare [sOLD]
Really a time warp piece, beautiful red shell, very few scratches for its age. Missing one lug, elderly (shot!) heads, decent snares (guts), small amount of corrosion to the rims. I'd estimate it's a late 1970s model maybe was someone's personal drum.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221443589689?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
EMU Orbit Rackmount Synth [sold]
Dance/electronica oriented (perfect for drum corps!
) Works, I never really used it, so I can't say much more. Cheap.http://www.ebay.com/itm/221443528091?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
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DCI will allow corps to get special age allowances for guest stars like Justin Bieber, Lil Wayne, Chris Brown, Katie Perry and Lindsay Lohan. They will sing, rap and dance to the music.
After that, music judges will be eliminated for D-list stars like Dennis Rodman, Flavor Flav and Michael Lohan.
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Chester PA rivals Camden, NJ with crime.
But the NCAA uses that stadium quite a bit so that might help.
Chester is probably worse than Camden.
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There are ways to make any point without being hurtful or disrespectful. That's just your opinion-not fact. I sat in the stands & repeatedly watched people sit stone faced during competition corps and dancing! while Cabs alumni drumline played. I have heard people very excited to watch Sky Alumni's drumline and Bridgeman are always appreciated. Even though I enjoy small corps & alumni, I often leave shows before all of the competing corps have gone on. Why? The pins, screws & rods in my back (been having back problems since I was 18) tell me it's time to go. Not because I dislike any particular corps or don't care. Crowds are notoriously hard to analyze.
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No, a lot of people don't. A few certainly do. I attend a lot of DCA shows every summer, many of which have alumni corps in exhibition. When they are on at the start of the show, much of the crowd skips them to get food, souvies, walk the lot, or simply arrive late. When they are on at the end of the show, folks leave (you can get scores on the internet). When a show puts them on in the middle (as was done in Bridgeport a couple of years ago), people complain, and take breaks to shop or hit the restroom. Deny it all you want, but it's true. I've even tweeted about it while at shows in the past.
There are exceptions, obviously (Cabs Alumni being the biggest), but the fact remains that alumni corps are not significant draws to shows, and the vast majority of fans simply don't much care.
Look, there is absolutely a niche set of fans that like and enjoy alumni shows, and that's awesome. But face it, they are a niche group in an already niche activity. There's a reason there are only a very small number of alumni-only shows every year. I think it's high time folks realize that alumni corps isn't about the fans as much as it's about the performers themselves. Those corps gather every year at DCA championships and essentially perform for each other, and if spectators show up, it's frosting on the cake. The truth is never disrespectful. You might not like it, but it's still the truth.[/. Oops double post.
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Ah... Not senile yet. I remember being pretty happy to make finals!
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IMO that is the fastest way for those corps to fail.
That's been the argument for the last 25 years. Maybe time for different theories?
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That's so disrespectful to those people marching. The day iis designed as it should be, to highlight DCA corps. the Alumni show was a later development and an addition to an already packed day. My SO prefers Alumni- I prefer DCA's smaller corps like Fusion, Sabers, Sun. We have to make compromises on what/ who to see. Moreover being a vegetarian it's rare at any public event (not only drum corps) to find a decent vegetarian meal. So sitting in the stands an entire day without food is not easy. You may not care about Alumni corps, but a lot of people do.So, the folks "resting up" essentially do not care, thus proving the original point. No one gives a flying crap about alumni corps.
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A low-cost local-style circuit a la the old Garden State Circuit is just never going to happen, IMO. It is just too expensive for enough corps to start up in a small enough area so that weekend shows are possible to create an all summer long activity. Not to mention trying to find interested new members to fill these new corps, even at 28 horns. There is a reason the GSC and its corps failed over time.
Not really-smaller circuits & championships failed because DCI would not cooperate. No DCI means a different context.
If my old corps could get a functional group up in a few months-it's not impossible. I think a lot of you are so used to large programs & extravaganzas that you forgot that a small corps can function with a couple of rented buses and a pick up.
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Or time for fans to actually show up at the beginning of shows and give their support to everyone. We all decry the death of the little corps, but who is there to watch them, or purchase souvenirs from them?
Maybe DCI is not, and has not been serving their interests. It might be time for OC to reconsider their situation.
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2 years, and empty stadiums suck. Even at Open Class only shows, people wouldn't filter in until the higher ranking OC corps came on. Which is why as a fan, I show up at the National Anthem, and leave after the encore and last score is announced. The kids deserve it, because I know what it's like.
Maybe its time for OC to abandon DCI and seek different alternatives. DCA for weekend show & mini tours among themselves to give that element of the experience. Mandatory cost cutting- limit size & pit expenditures? DCI has mainly served a few for very many years. Another example of the worthlessness of "trickle down" theory and practice.
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As someone who attends WC and Open Class shows, I agree with Mike D's comments and do not think people who attend WC shows would be happy with smaller corps with 28-40 in the horn line. The only exception of a WC corps that I can think of would be BAC in the late 70's/early 80's but that was only tolerated out of respect for their pluck and determination and for the size it was quite a powerful group. And yes there are a few smaller WC corps such a s Pioneer and Cascades and they are well received, but at Allentown some people are still walking round when the smaller corps perform and at prelims, many do not arrive at shows in Indy until after 5 PM when the WC corps ranked 15 and higher perform. In my opinion they've missed some great shows and as someone who has to travel to get to Indy as do many others, I'm not sure why you'd make the trip and not try and enjoy every minute.
Mike D is correct when he speaks of low attendance at OC shows and there are many reasons for low attendance that belongs more on the Open Class threads than a WC thread, although I think it drives home a point often mentioned in threads--many of those who complain do not support the activity financially or by attending shows. Perhaps before really scathing comments appears on DCP, copies of ticket stubs, credit card receipts from corps souvenir booths, and a copy of income tax returns to show donations to favorite corps which are tax deductions. This could only be overridden by volunteer hours with a corps or current marching experience, but I digress.
Recently I had to look up some numbers from the Department of Education and I believe there are approximately 25,000 public high schools and 10,000 private high schools, though to me the number of public high schools seems low and the number of private high schools seems high. There are not 35,000 music programs that could do and would be bored with what BD, Phantom, Star, SCV, 27th, etc. did in the past. Keep in mind I am also someone who believes that the shows of the past cannot be done again, but not because the ship has sailed. We will never see "Spartacus." "E=MC2," or "Angels and Demons" either. The time, the people involved, and the styles are what made past shows great as well as present shows great. However, with so many high schools and high school musicians, while it is highly unlikely it is not impossible that there would be 128 kids who might like to march in a drum corps called "Tradition." I do not think the goals would be accomplished, I don't think fans of past shows would be teary eyed as the old shows were recreated, and unless they were exhibition only, I don't think they would do well competitively.
One more note regarding kinds not wanting to join. I love travelling to Colonial Williamsburg and Yorktown, and the fife and drum corps make the experience. Now playing colonial tunes, marching like colonial soldiers, all while dealing with rude tourists who get in the way of your formations for a photo op (do you really think a selfie with a colonial background makes you look good?), doesn't sound to me like a great time. However, the kids are passionate about what they do, they do it well, the training is rigorous (in Williamsburg many are also colonial characters, especially during the summer months) and keeping a spot is very competitive and unlike the other reenactors, all but the director of the fife and rum corps are unpaid. Some do it because they love history, others do it because they love to perform, but there's a waiting lost of young people who want to join. You never know what interests people, especially high school students.
i think your last paragraph is what i'm suggesting. Current DCI fans will not support a corps with 28 bugles. I realize thatDCI is now like a broadway extravaganza mixed with the WVU marching band (size reference). But once DCI becomes band in name as well as fact i think that may leave a niche area for small, low cost, 'pure' drum and bugle corps. Fife and drum corps survive. Drum and baton corps survive. Will it ever be big like the 70s: i doubt it. Neither will DCI for that matter. But i think there is a market for a low cost, low overhead drum and bugle corps circuit. Not every kid has 3k in tuition fee or the travel time, commitment, etc of DCI. . , Open class doesn't draw well now because its in the shadow of WC. Im talking about something that is not associated with DCI nor attempts to market to that audience. Remember drum and bugle corps long predated DCI and i suspect may survive its passing (or further transition)
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Brian,
There were Class A prelims, right? No need for scores, but i seem to remember Class A pre-lims & finals like at the AIO.
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To be blunt...
Because drum corps has always been a elitist activity. It's highly competitive, from walking in the door to audition to competing on the field at Finals. It's an activity where we're always ranking/rating EVERYTHING: there are some corps discussion about brown vs orange trays, or red vs green koolaid! I've read member blogs where even shower water pressure is rated on a site-by-site basis! Fans argue about which era is "better," or more true or whatnot. It is only natural that elitism creeps into outside world a bit, and I think marching members have an attitude of, "I had to audition to become a member, our corps works WAY harder on more difficult programs and performs in cooler stadiums: therefor, drum corps is better than marching band, and if someone refers to drum corps as marching band, that's a bad thing." I remember as a marching member if a rookie accidentally referred to corps as band it would get ugly quick, and whenever we talked to 'civilians' we would be quick to let them know that we were not band, and there WAS a big difference.
It is pretty silly, I agree with you. This activity sometimes likes to take itself WAY too seriously, and I personally don't care about a name designation between corps & band. Drum corps has a great tradition behind the name, and I agree that I'd personally prefer to keep Drum Corps International: even though we've moved far from our beginnings, it's nice to always have the constant reminder of where we started, those that came before (often WAY before) us, etc.
I do think you are right. But i don't know if this practice and philosophy has been so helpful for the overall health of the activity. I think thats its played a large part in making it even more of a niche preferred by " band geeks."
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Why do you think "most" fans are cool with as few as 28 horns? I doubt it. There are constant complaints about low attendance at Open class shows posted on DCP.
You describe one type of MB of the past, but that is besides the point. The OP is looking to have kids of today's improved bands march and play old shows of 30-40 years ago, note-for-note and step-for-step.
In my area, the "corps style" MB movement started in the early 70's and accelerated through the 80's, with competitive circuits like TOB, EMBA, NESBA, Cavalcade, NYSFBC providing opportunities for bands. There was a wide range of skills, to be sure, but it was not at all as you describe universally.
Mike i think we are talking apples and oranges. I realize that people who go to DCI shows in its current incarnation will not be satisfied with 28 bugles. But there are people who would and do prefer bugles and don't mind a smaller brass section. They may not attend current DCI shows because they dislike the style of performance. A lot of these folks post on facebook in places that you dont go. Some of them go to DCA and love Bush, Fusion, etc. Some prefer the alumni corps. I think that once DCI becomes "Super Summer Sport Dance Band" (or something) that market will have space to grow. But it doesn't need the critical mass of DCI because of much lower costs. Apples and oranges.
It can be done-my old corps got onto the streets last summer for the first time in nearly a 1/2. Dozen years, and in a sdca show in a couple of months. The kids were happy and proud and so were the vets. It was a simple little drum and bugle corps. Why do you hate groups like this so much? Some folks dont want or need synths, bflat, etc. they get out and do it: why do you have to denigrate it? I love the sound of g horns and hope this little artform survives and allows people to appreciate g horns and not much else. Theres no reason why everyone has to love the DCI musical extravaganza approach or nothing.
As i stated above-i dont think DCI's audience would like what he (OP) proposes. For better or worse the hard core DCI people want to throw everything in to the pot. This approach is fine and seemingly has served competitive bands well. But i think theres a place for a small movement of drum and bugle corps. Yes drum & bugle corps fall under the umbrella band, but with an obviously different instrumentation (as do fife & drum corps). Its certainly not breaking a law to like or favor any of these approachs.
Maybe your area was ahead of the game. I suspect with such a high concentration of top drum and bugle corps Jersey was a bit of an anomaly. But i think you know the general standard of bands for the 60s and 70s was show band. I still see hs bands using lyres. Buffalo hats though seem to br mostly gone. :). And to this day most HS bands do not compete. You admitted that in a thread awhile back. Most are lucky to do 1/2 time shows and the odd band festival. Really in this era of cut backs-lucky to exist at all. The change over time is that most have adopted 'corps' style. (Sorry about the typos: my contacts are giving me trouble).
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nope dont need a theme...BUT a good show either way doesnt need explanation.....take crown last year...It was a great show IMO and who carfe about love stories, worm holes, equations...JMO...one can get hung up on a theme or just listen to great music or watch fantastic visuals....we make it to deep......and thats on both sides of the coin sometimes.
If a themed show doesnt have enough in it no explanation can compensate for lack of content.
Well, the intention is depth, but the problem is that we usually end up drowning in shallow waters. :)
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Thanks Brian!
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Very impressive looking bunch! Can't wait to see & hear this year's product!
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I think that most drum and bugle corps fans are cool with about 28 bugles & 40 is real nice-52 is great. Remember the bugles are louder than their bflat cousins.you will not find 128 kids willing to pay to spend their summers marching symmetrical drill forms at 12:5 steps and playing Ice Castles or Danny Boy. you just won't.besides, even the most well performed shows from the 70s and early 80s have glaring performance issues. horn angles? ever check those out? timing of the feet, ensemble timing... it goes on and on. kids today (even 16 year olds) are so fundamentally good at marching band that they'd have the show maxed out in 5 days and would spend the other 11 weeks on whatsapp telling their band friends how bored they were.think about this... the high school bands in texas are only allowed to rehearse for 8 hours per WEEK. that means that during a 12-week fall season, they rehearse the equivalent of about 10-12 full drum corps days. these bands achieve things that even lower scoring corps can't even dream of. it's a different universe.
All of the performance issues you mention-thats where drum and bugle corps was then. We were learning through trial and error the current performance standards.
Let me tell you 98% of bands back in the 70s were high stepping show bands with drum lines that didnt tune their drums. I remember regularly seeing snare lines (and i use that term loosely) with people playing snare with traditional and matched grip in the same section. They had 'pompom' girls, few did band festivals much less compete. They almost universally sounded horrendous. Im not talking subtle problems either. Many bands had multiple hand held glocks clanging away. Listening to bands in those days was more of a matter of 'when will it end!'
When i got to College band, i was horrified to find 8 bass drummers playing quarter notes on every song on unmuffled or tuned bass drums. The entire band including drumline used lyres-i kid you not. This was 1984-check out what any drum and bugle corps was doing-i am sure no corps (and there was about 250 then) was doing anything like that.
Marching style for most bands of the 70s & early 80 s didnt exist until gradually bands began to adopt 'corps style' and that often was just an excuse to walk-maybe in step-maybe not. A good marcher for a band in those days was someone who stayed in step 80% of the time.
Another staple of bands of that era was the lyre as it was perfectly acceptable to read the music on the field. Band drills commonly featured 'scramble' to get to the next set. You know what cleaned up that mess? Drum and Bugle corps folks-the ones with the bad horn angles. If it werent for drum and bugle corps most bands would still be wearing buffalo hats and spats. :)
I think we need to keep things in some sort of historical perspective when making value laden comparisons of the past/ present without an understanding of context.
I dont think that you will see a drum and bugle corps with 80 brass performing in the manner of current DCI band. I do think its possible to see a revival of smaller, lower cost & overhead drum and bugle corps. This past summe my old corps was back on the street with about 20 bugles, 4 snares and those folks were mainly HS age. So yeah, it's possible. It might not be what you like, but i dont like DCI's current band approach. So i guess we are all happy. :)
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Well maybe thats a project for DCI's bands-to make "band" cool. I think the general public thinks that the show bands like in "drum line" is more admirable than being in a DCI band or drum & bugle corps.Only problem. Why is the word "band" such a lame word! The connotations are awful in today's society unfortunately. The "b" is bumbling and round sound certainly not as cutting authoritative as the c in corps... and that "a" vowel sound... Geez it really gets up there in the nasal passage when you say it....
Id rather keep the word corps just for posterity's sake!
I wonder what name DCI will take?
Marching Band All Stars Summer Sport
Or something like that?
As an afterthought, i think when DCI completes its transition with a name change a lot of the tension with drum & bugle corps traditionalists will cease. I think that crowd-me included will look for other alternatives with bugles. That may help us gain a greater degree of interest in the late DCI's bands (and it may not).
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I bet a lot of them had no idea what a drum corps actually was, or would care to know. I know that's how it was at the Bingo I worked at in the late 70's (and bought my Bingo-playing Mother-in-law often). They were just Bingo players looking for a game!
Probably true in areas like NNJ & Cali, but in Butler PA some of the Bingo ladies were grandmas or neighbors of kids marching & some came to the AIO. Personally i always liked working bingo and appreciated their support.
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Yep. DCI is now band-for better or worse thats what it is.. What's the use of complaining now? That ship has sailed. I think DCI should add woodwinds, and any other prop or object the artists desire.
. I would like to see DCI drop any pretense of being anything other than band. What the DCI bands do isn't my cup of tea, but I wish them well in future endeavors.
I'm hopeful to see a revival of drum and bugle corps- a lot smaller, a lot less expensive, and with more accessible music. i don't see this starting to really take root until DCI has completely transitioned into band in NAME as well as deed. I think the legacy crowd can be pleased by 28 kids on g horns and thrilled to hear 40. So to those who say it won't happen I think we are talking apples and oranges.
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Those kids are so cute! Good luck!
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As to the OP's original question: I thought that G horns had been banned from DCI because the sound of them annoys the 'artists' running DCI, :)
FS: Remo TSS Snare, Slingerland TDR, etc
in DCP Marketplace
Posted
Bump.