Land_Surfer
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Posts posted by Land_Surfer
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2 hours ago, EricS said:
the corps needs neither of them!
Why?
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35 minutes ago, Glenn426 said:
There are many successful designers in the activity.. One only need to look at the corps climbing the ranks, Or a look at the successful BOA Shows the past couple of years and who the designers are behind them... A look at the WGI ranks also wouldn't hurt as they would likely have designers that would pay attention to the trends and know how to implement them..
BOA and WGI is not the solution. They are two completely different activities / dynamics / techniques compared to DCI. A strong staff must have its core in Drum Corps.
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15 minutes ago, DFA1970 said:
Yeah maybe they need a new program coordinator but some of you guys seem to think they are just available right off the market. Phantom lost two great designers to SCV..Rennick and Shaw. Those are two huge people to fill. So it's not an easy fix for any corp. That's like if BD lost Chandler, Scott Johnson and Todd Ryan. Do you think they would be the same if they lost these guys?
PR has had plenty of time to research, network and find more than capable individuals to backfill their leading brass, percussion, visual and coordinator positions. PR is still just a small town mid-western corps that doesn’t have the resources available to it that metro corps have. The number one attribute of a top-5 corps is money! Money buys the talented and most of all EXPERIENCED creative staff needed to build highly competitive corps. A novice creative staff will only drag a corps down, unfortunately, and it is showing at PR.
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It’s ‘86 all over again, which could mean Cesario, Dan the Man and Mr. Jim could all be back next year. I would pay $1,000 to watch one of their shows again and see what they could pull off. What a show it would be... “old school,” if just for one season. It truly would be “From the New World to the New Age,” Regiment Style... dark, rich and soulful with some major structure damage sprinkled hear and there. It’s ok to dream, right?
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Our society is measured by scores. Scores are often used in the decision making process to help determine which corps to march, as well as to help instrument and pageantry suppliers / manufacturers allocate promotional / support funds, goods and services. Thus, the necessity to remain in the top-12 and most especially in the top-5, as that is where the strongest ROI is received. Scores mean everything in this activity.
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I don’t think there is any other scored activity that has its outcome so accurately predicted than drum corps. After 3-4 weeks, what point is there to remain on the road once your placement has been decided? You can’t argue with this or the DCI ranking. They are extremely accurate. Just kinda takes the wind out of the sails for those struggling corps. It also proves that corps designers should be more pragmatic and develop their shows in stages throughout the season. Prediction lists and rankings should be dropped and only the scores be published.
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It’s easier to teach a common theme than it is to teach a story line. A common theme often has a greater margin of interpretation (means different things to different people) often with the same emotional outcome, whereas a story typically has a fixed plot or meaning and that singular storyline may be confusing / disagreeable to some. If I remember right, the winning Spartacus show didn’t firm up its storyline until late in the season after the audience was conditioned to its emotional drive and theme. It might be worth it to leave out the “I am Joan” yell, etc. until they get the theme(s) of the show refined / cleaned up and then throw in all the accents needed to tighten it into a working / successful story.
It’s obvious that today’s DCI shows focus on the solution / outcome without defining the requirements needed to get to the outcome. A winning show comes in stages and rarely starts out by refining a completed show. PR use to know this. Experience knows this!
No matter the industry or profession, today’s modern workforce doesn’t want to hear anything about experience (the past). It’s all about the present. Good deductive reasoning skills are nothing without ample experience to make them work right.
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Starting out sixth place behind the likes of Blue Stars and Boston isn’t exactly a stellar start. DCI scoring ranking accurately foretells the end-season top-5 rather quickly.
Tip: unplug all the electronic crap and let them play their hearts out and watch them soar!
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1 minute ago, EricS said:
they probably should stay home then.
I totally agree.
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27 minutes ago, EricS said:
WTF does that mean?
TRADITION, It means tradition, as well as, “if you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen!”
Military “styled” uniforms, hats & helmets included, as well as military commands (tone, cadence and snap) are all a necessary part of the traditional military styled marching musical activities and drum corps is the core / epicenter of this tradition.
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1 hour ago, Ghost said:
If PR could pull this off (no cheating by using the pit) they’d be top three!
http://www.worldofbrassradio.com/. Final song at 1’ 03”.
1 hour ago, Ghost said:If PR could pull this off (no cheating by using the pit) they’d be top three!
http://www.worldofbrassradio.com/. Final song at 1’ 03”.
The last work on the play list was PR’s opener from ‘87. And The PR horn line made it sound as pure as the pros on this recording. It literally blew you back in your seat, as no one was expecting the brilliance, precision and power after the previous year’s show.
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On 5/22/2019 at 12:20 PM, Terri Schehr said:
It’s been better in recent years. One corps when they were first doing this stuff made my seat vibrate.
I remember a time, not so long ago, when a top 10 horn line could vibrate an entire stadium under its own lung power, and that was awesome GE!
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Oh no.
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On 5/6/2019 at 6:17 PM, queenanne_1536 said:
That's too bad. 1986 was obviously a rough year for them. When they first debuted those all white uniforms in '87 it was magical, truly shocking. You literally gasped at how beautiful they looked. Breathtaking. You just knew that show had legs. It was really disappointing that they dropped 3rd to 5th finals week, but it was really magical.
It was the best fifth place! The Swan Lake opener pinned you back in your seat where you were held the entire show. It was unreal! The closer was just magical as only PR could’ve done.
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3 hours ago, YoungMusician said:
Most of the people I marched with in the past couple of years were not wealthy and often struggled very hard to pay the monthly payments. In fact — most people I marched with work one or two jobs leading up to the summer in order to pay for it. Our fees added up to $4,500 to $5,000 with camps, tour fees, and tour supplies (good shoes, backpack, air mattress, etc)
There are certainly some wealthy kids who have parents that just pay for their fees. But in my experience, most of us work our butts off to be able to pay for the summer.
It’s an activity full of (mostly) kids who work VERY hard year around.
I’m not so sure the ROI (return on investment) from marching in today’s DCI is as good today as it has been.
It takes long hours of work for a full-time high school or college student to earn an additional $4,000-5,000 required to spend the summer on the road performing, especially when the opportunity cost of those funds could be better spent supporting academic endeavors.
When I paid my dues and marched it was an authentic era for corps and their performances. There is nothing genuine today. Every corps wants to be like every other corps, the activity has become so homogenized that when you see one, you’ve literally seen them all and I blame it on leadership who decided that quality talent and performance wasn’t enough value to win. Therefore, performance enhancements have been added (amplification, electronic instruments, static displays) that in no way project passion and emotion from the members. It blows my mind that today’s members are forced to pay these kinds of fees and the outcome of the show is driven more by the behind the scenes actions of programmers and set builders. What a sham! DCI today isn’t the result of the natural progression (evolution) of the activity as much as it is an arrogant few trying to push the limits for their own benefit.
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2 hours ago, Mello Dude said:
It's true for the most part..sad really. Performances are amazing but it's been "yuppyfied"
Not sure “yuppified” is the right adjective.
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1 hour ago, xandandl said:
as long as Cesario and Chandler have anyone's ears in the activity, those opposed to costuming will be considered old fogeys. Interesting never is there a mention of conflicts of interests, certain persons making their livelihood off of units buying costuming, or that one's influence with sponsors is in direct proportion to the sponsors' products being bought. You know, the theory that goes "The activity is for the kids, right?"
It hasn’t been for the kids since on-field warm-ups!
Drum corps is a wealthy kid’s activity... money talks and talent walks!
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36 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:
Excellent point. The best example for me of that sustained moment to this day is still '87 Cadets. It was a 12 minute sustained musical moment LOL.
And they M&M’d the whole time. Today’s performers are obviously no longer the musicians they once were, and why should they be when supplemented by electronics and loud speakers, and show’s are being designed around visuals. Before long football fields will no longer be good enough.
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Visuals have never been PR’s strong suit, not their weak point either, when done in the PR style. Their greatest shows were always led with a fantastic horn & drum book complimented with appropriate visuals that didn’t take away from the musical impact, as visuals should, compliment. Whenever PR attempts to be like other corps, they crash and burn. I can’t understand why so many haven’t figured this out. Let them do what they do best. PR is a musical drum corps. Unfortunately, I fear they have already lost (sold) their Romantic soul to Impressionism.
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48 minutes ago, Lead said:
Maybe 'drum and bugle corps' has changed and you refuse to accept it. It is an art form that is constantly evolving. Just like a 2019 Corvette is WILDLY different from a '65 Corvette, but they are still Corvettes.
Guess what? Electronics exist now in DCI, marching band, WGI, Indoor Winds, concert band, jazz band, etc. It's not going away. And it doesn't make 'drum corps' any less 'drum corps.'
Also - come to Military Park on Finals day when there are literally thousands of people watching horn and drum warmups.Yup, brass and percussion warm-ups attract the most.
just because everyone uses electronics doesn't make it right. Drum corps and marching bands cannot afford the quality of equipment to compliment the natural stereophonic sounds created by brass and percussion. Today's result is a pestering sound detracting from the sound quality and purity of the ensemble.
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9 hours ago, MikeD said:
Well, IMO drum corps shows of today in both design and performance are the best they have ever been, and I saw my first show in September 1963 as an almost 10-year old.
People said that Bayonne was not true drum corps with the banana unis in 1976.
People thought that adding a contra turned drum corps into something it was not around 1960.
People thought drum corps died in 1971 with Madison, Cavies, Garfield, St Rita's themed shows.
Just about every new thing caused the prior generations to moan that drum corps was not what it was supposed to be.
True but, despite all you mention, they still remained drum & bugle corps. For the last 10 years, not so much. Heavy on theatrics, reduced emphasis on the use of drill to visually interpret the music. Adding electronics is not the same as adding a contra. If the creative staff(s) think they are attracting a broader appreciation and audience for the organization by using more theatrics and electronics, I think they are wrong. Who has the highest draw during warm-ups: brass, percussion or guard?
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4 hours ago, LabMaster said:
I wonder how many people didn’t like what shows you were performing from 01 - 05? A sure way go DC to die is for each generation believing the next generation is ruining the activity the declaring their refusal to support the activity. If we all felt that way about everything we participated in, in our past lives, we’d all end up cranky, sitting in a corner telling everyone who would have the displeasure of listening how much better the old days were.
DC is pretty }%**% good now. Let’s get over ourselves shall we? Come, sit with me on my lawn.
Every generation thinks the next isn’t as good as the past but, the current generation, through the past ten years, is forcing the activity to change into something it is not. DCI was the last bastion of brass and percussion marching tradition whose achievements weren’t limited by its traditional ways. Today that bastion. Is dying and too many in the activity want to force it to change to a “field theater” activity that has no exclusivity.
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If limited creativity is really the issue here, and has been for some time, and changing the program coordinator (show producer) hasn’t improved things much, then whoever is responsible for hiring the program coordinator (the process, system and / or personnel) should be re-evaluated and also changed.
Change is a slippery slope that often doesn’t involve one or a select few. It’s a complete makeover. Think that will happen at PR? I don’t, not given its current board. If PR truly wants to leave behind all that made them great and cater to the millennial culture and perform modern, impressionistic shows heavy on theatrics and less on musicality then they will require a complete staff overhaul to one that is avant-garde enough to accomplish it. Just remember, there are far more PR Phans and alumni out there, with deeper pockets, who remember, appreciate and sponsored far more memorable shows with Elsa, Spartacus, Romeo & Juliet, Dvorak, The Three Tenors, Russians, The Rach., etc. than anything fielded over the past 10 years and especially any show enhanced by electronics.
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I quit supporting this gimmick a few seasons back when brass and percussion were being displaced by electronics. To think that brass and persuasion players today are incapable of creating and projecting the sound and rhythms necessary to simulate string, woodwind parts etc. is a major insult to all (past and present) DCI brass and percussion players. The mingling of natural / musical stereophonic brass and percussion sounds with the mono sounds created by amplification is absolutely pitiful and a major reduction in creativity.
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2019 Phantom Regiment
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Partially agree. But, his expertise is brass and building strong, high quality / highly competitive horn lines, and that’s why most would appreciate his return.