gellio
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Posts posted by gellio
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1985 Phantom. No contest IMO.
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I just have to ask: WHAT is your problem with the Blue Stars? Did you get cut? Did they ruin your wedding? Does their uniform color cause you to have seisures? Everything you say about them is a dig or negative. Please, get the issue off your chest, you will feel better
.Who cares? Not everyone has to like every corps. Build a bridge and get over it.
As far as the explanation on the Star website. I will NEVER EVER EVER believe they knew they were leaving DCI before 1993 Finals. Regardless, it sucks they left. I loved that corps.
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1. 27th Lancers
2. Bridgemen
3. Star of Indiana
4. Muchachos
5. Kingsmen
6. Sky Ryders
7. Black Knights
8. Seneca Optimists
9. East Coast Jazz
10. Southwind
11. Magic of Orlando
12. Guardsmen
Do you think you're funny? Someone does this every time. Get new material.
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No. Crown has finished in the top 4 ONCE.
Rivalries take years to develop.
And next year will make it twice. I guarantee no one else in the top 4 is underestimating Crown. They are for real. Without a doubt the best 4th place show ever. Crown is the next new DCI Champion.
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With the Whole thing? Are you kidding? This will make for some interesting discussion. I Believe Phantom also won the "Night of the TIE". Just like I said in the other thread where people are trying to tell me (us) that the Judges got it wrong this year, I do believe they got it wrong that year. Once again like I said in that other thread "I KNOW what I HEARD and SAW that night". The Judges got it RIGHT this year and got it WRONG with the TIE. 1996 Phantom Regiment THE CLEAR WINNER! oh yeah IMHO!
Well, I think the judges got in right in '08 and wrong in 1996. I had Phantom 3rd in 1996. Bottom line - none of us are qualified to judge, but in close cases (and 1996 was one of those) it's easy to see why people think different corps should have won.
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It seems every year there's a debate as to who people would have as the winner of DCI this year. There are years that are in dispute, 87 & 89 come to mind. There are also clear winners, such as 91, 02.
In the years you believe someone else should have won, what leads you believe the judges got it wrong?
Excluding 85, I believe the biggest rip off in DCI history was 87. SCV was far superior to Cadets that evening. A close second is 2000 when Cadets were simply amazing and should have won outright.
I think it most years where the scoring was close, a case can be made for another corps winning. Since my first year in drum corps, I'd say the only clear winners were 84, 85, 86, 91, 2002 and 2005.
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"92 SCV at the Bottle Dance. Still perhaps the loudest moment in DCI history that I have experienced!"
This was mentioned in another thread and it got me thinking.... I'm not sure I agree with this one....
So....
What was the loudest moment in DCI history?
Should DCI monitor this and publish the result each year?
1982 was louder. The crowd response to the surprise bottle dance was deafening.
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Sarcasm...?
Of course sarcasm. I think the jump from 8th to 7th is pretty big. I don't see the Bluecoats placing below 7th next year.
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Hmm, everyone seems to think that staff turnover = lower placement for Bloo.
I'm compelled to ponder "why?"
What if Bloo finds equally-qualified and/or better-qualified replacements?
Would you still put Bloo lower, considering those possibilites? has anyone even considered those possibilities?
Something...SOMETHING...causes people to think (based on their experience, no doubt) that a corps generally FALLS in placement after major staff turnover, NO MATTER WHO FILLS THE SPOTS. Sunds like an INERTIAL problem to me...
Yes, Bloo will finish lower because they have no CI and all the other corps have plenty of CI!
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You've managed to make me speechless.
Thank God!
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Yes, Yes, Yes.... This post is absolutely correct. No one has come up with any real evidence to refute this. Just because something has happened for 36 years, doesn't mean it will continue to happen.
Exactly! It's really 37 years (1972 to 2008 = 37 championships). As I said before, SCV, Cadets, BD and Cavies have won (or shared) all but 5 of those 37 titles (1972, 1975, 1988, 1991 and 2008). AGAIN - the reason no corps has won who hasn't placed in the top 3 before is because of the dominance of these corps. In the 1970's BD and SCV dominated the activity. As 1977-1979 Phantom proved, it was #### hard (and impossible) to top both BD and SCV at finals. From 1973 to 1982 (10 years) the only time one of these two didn't win was 1975. In the 1980's Garfield joined SCV and BD in their dominance. Together, the three won all but one championship in the 80's (1988). From 1973 to 1988 (16 championships) only one corps was successful in winning that wasn't named BD, Garfield or SCV - that's why we used to have t-shirts that said "The Third Coast". In the 1990's SCV slipped and the Cavies really emerged as a championship contender. So now, we have BD (aside from their slip 1990-1993), Cadets and Cavies at the top. As 1996 Phantom and 1999 SCV proved, it was impossible from 1994 to 2007 to beat all three of these corps in the same year, even at your best. Star was the only corps to really challenge these three, and Star not only proved they could beat all three, but that they were among them. Post Star, the activity has been totally dominated by BD, Cavies and Cadets. Until 2008, they won (or shared) the last 14 championships.
The fact that no corps has not won without previously placing in the top three has nothing to do with CI - it has to do with two or more corps completely and totally dominating the activity, for lengthy periods, nearly since the inception of DCI. Still, I believe 2008 Crown had the elements of a championship caliber corps. We'll see what 2009 brings, but I am really excited for this organization.
I will say IMO Crown will not likely win, as it is #### hard to beat BD, Cavies and Cadets all in the same year, and now Phantom is amongst them. THAT is a much more sound argument as to why Crown may not win than CI.
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There is a science to CI, however. CI is based upon observations and the theory of CI is made upon these observations. CI is proven time and time again. As per an earlier response to Phantom winning while they were 4th in 07 and won in 08, it is because they not only medaled in the past, but they have won before. Hence, they can win. Crown has not won or even medaled. This is because of the judges reluctancy to allow a corps who hasn't "proven" themselves to be put amongst those who have. It's human nature. May I ask, have you read the CI thread?
Wrong! Phantom's win had nothing to do with CI. After great seasons in 1996 and 1997, Phantom suffered in the rankings and programming (perhaps a loss of talent/staff) in 1998 and 1999. In 2000, we saw the corps begin to rebuild. That rebuilding continued through 2005 IMO where they hit their stride. 2003 even showed us that Phantom was improving and rapidly - better staff, more talented members, better programming. The drop in placements in 2004 and 2007 had more to do with programming shortcomings (in comparison to the corps above them), then lack of talent. In 2008, all the pieces came together. The didn't win because they were in the top 3 in the past. They won because they were the best corps on the field.
The judges do their job and they do it right. Were Crown the best corps on the field in '08, they would have won. How many times do I have to go over it?
The entire CI is based on some ridiculous coincidence that no one who hasn't placed in the top 3 previously has ever won. That coincidence could hold up for a long time, but it has nothing to do with CI.
The only thing that's been proven from 1994 to 2008 is that it is almost impossible to beat all three - Cavies, Cadets and BD in one season. That's why no one who hasn't placed 3rd before hasn't won - because of the dominance of BD, Cadets and Cavies. Phantom did it this year, so I'm hopeful the tide is turning, but the creater of this "so-called" CI has absolutely not presented what-so-ever one (ONE) concrete argument that supports CI.
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yeah, they way it gets tossed around here, i thought I was the only one who knew not to use it. I guess corps don't talk about it anymore. I will say though that my corps used it in mockery one year and well, here's what happened:
finals placement: 11, 10, 12, 11, 11, 11, 10, 16("m" word year), 10, 7, 7, 8, 6, 4
that's no coincidence
Exactly, and I might add, that the 8th place in 2006 was achieved with perhaps their most well-designed show to date. I love Crown. They have replaced SCV as my 2nd favorite corps - something I thought I would never see.
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lol
Glad I made you laugh.
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For Crown to win next year, they have to hope that somehow The Cavaliers, Blue Devils, Phantom Regiment and The Cadets all have off-years.
I said the same thing about Phantom Regiment last year. I certainly wouldn't say Blue Devils or Cavaliers had an off-year in '08.
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For Crown to win next year, they have to hope that somehow The Cavaliers, Blue Devils, Phantom Regiment and The Cadets all have off-years, as no section in Crown, for me, stands out among these other four corps. If Crown can't win a single caption, how will they win overall?
But in the end, it's not about who's the best, or who the fans love or hate, it's who the JUDGES love or hate. From inconsistencies in the box to impossible point spreads, one look at the recaps after each show will tell you exactly who will win and by how much as early as July.
It is certainly within reason that Crown could win brass and/or guard next year. How can you say those sections do not "stand out"? IMO, Crown has one of the most effective brasslines (and 3rd place in brass is pretty stand out IMO). They also have a fantastic guard and a great visual design.
So we all knew Phantom would win in early July? We all knew Crown would place 4th with a 96.8 in early July? Wow - I had Phantom 4th or 5th in early July and thought Crown would be 5th - 7th.
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it's kind of saddening that none of you arguing against bruckner8 understand how science works. sigh...
There is no such thing as "science" in drum corps or any other activity which is subjectively judged!
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you don't even know how to spell.
It's called a typo, on a silly little discussion board. Why would I spend time proofing my writing for some silly little discussion board? I write for a living, so I think I wouldn't be making $125k+ per year doing it if I didn't know how to spell. My life does not revolve around drum corps.
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I will say this: Madison will beat Crown again before Crown wins. Like it or not, Madison has a lot more overall CI than Crown. 20 more years. Almost all of those years were GLORIOUS years. Everyone wants Madison back in it, fans, DCI, even the judges. There's a HUGE (but subtle) INERTIA behind Madison.
You said: "Are you really going to argue that Crown was far superior to the Cavaliers in brass at finals, but CI rose up and smacked McGarr silly?"
I did not hear Crown nor Cavies at field level, nor do I know what captions McGarr judged. All I know is this: I heard both shows from the stands 3 times practically back to back, and I concluded Crown hornline to be superior to Cavies. But I knew (thanks to CI) that one of two things was going to happen:
1) Cavies were going to beat Crown in brass anyway.
2) If Crown beat Cavies, it would be by a very small margin.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're argument gets more and more ridiculous with each passing day. Madison will beat Crown before Crown wins DCI? Laughable. If we're talking inertia, this Madison alum would argue that Crown has a lot more inertia than Madison. Who knows? You could end up being right, but it will have nothing to do with this "so-called" CI if you are.
To try to get it through your head again - the reason no one has won w/o placing 3rd prior has nothing to do with this "so-called" CI - it is a coincidence and nothing more. It is because of BD, Cavies, Cadets and to some extent Santa Clara, whom have won all but 5 of the last 37 championships. It is difficult to win because as of late three of those four have been so dominant and it is extremely difficult to beat all three (Cadets, Cavies and BD) in one season. Period! THAT is a much more sound argument than your "so-called" CI. Whether Crown finishes 1st or 8th next year, it has nothing to do with CI.
I've already outlined what it takes to win a championship - no need to repeat myself. Again, nothing to do with CI.
Re: Cavies vs. Crown - I'd like to exactly know what your judging qualifications are! I tend to think McGarr is much more qualified than you, and I'm sure most on here would agree with me.
Bottom line - you're attempt at coming across as some type of genious with this CI argument is back-firing. There is no argument and no case to made for CI. To base and entire argument on a coincidence - that's just dumb.
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Crown for sure. But, I love classical music. I also think Crown's guard is much better and their overall design is much better.
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I don't know. My gut feeling tells me that Crown is different than Coats, Glassmen, and BC. One thing is for sure, they've got people on staff who know how to get a team to the top. I for one don't think '09 will be their championship year though. I'm aiming for '10 or '11 (yikes, this decade has gone by in a flash).
Exactly. I knew in 1989 that Star was going to be a champion, and soon. I remember being ###### after finals, thinking it was BS that they beat us. After watching the videos (then the DVDs), I was shocked they didn't place 4th. It is perhaps one of the only placements I disagree with. You could definitely tell Star crossed a threshold in 1989. Was it innovative? No. Was it a championship design? No. But, the drill was well written, and clean as hell. The hornline reached championship caliber IMO. I remember in 1990 someone I knew saw Star early in the season, when they were losing heavily to Phantom and Cavies. He said, their show could beat everyone if it was clean, and sure enough, they got third.
I feel the same way about Crown. They are different than Bluecoats, Glassmen, Crossmen and BAC. The Bluecoats were great in '05-'08. I personally thought '07 was the best corps they ever put on the field. Glassmen were awesome in 1998, 1999 and especially 2001 (IMO - that was their best). BAC was great in '00 and '02. But, IMO none of these groups achieved what Crown did this year. What set Crown apart was their entire show from top to bottom was championship caliber, and executed on a championship level. There were just three corps where were better.
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Crown is the new thin.
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Sorry for posting a million times...
I do have to say something about 1988. If there was any corps that deserved to win, it was Madison. That was one of the greatest in your face drum corps shows I've ever seen, and will argue that it connected with the crowd more than Regiments show a few weeks back. I had the honor of touring with them late in the season, and everyone of them was first class. They took the time to talk to us and praise our show, and never gave us any attitude. Winners demonstrate class both on and off the field, and I see this same quality from the kids and the staff at Crown.
As for Madison 1988, I have NEVER witnessed a crowd response like that in my life. And if there is one show that proves my point about talent, it is this one. Quite possibly one of the most talented group of young men to ever march on a football field, ever.
Thanks, that's really nice of you to say. I will say, I have never heard a crowd react as loudly as they did at the end of our show or when SCV was announced in 2nd.
On a side note - I have four favorite shows from 1989 - SCV, Phantom, Star and................ Freelancers. THAT was such a great show my friend - so fun and entertaining. I'm going to have to watch it when I get home now. It's been a long time :)
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Couldn't agree more. Crown was #### good and placed where they should have. The judges got it right this year in all respects.
And I think they get it right 99.9% of the time. Afterall, are any of us on here qualified to judge one caption, much less all captions? No! Not by a long-shot.
Help! I want to buy a rifle!
in CGP General Discussion
Posted
Hi All,
I really want to buy a rifle. Although I was in the hornline, I can do drop spins and tosses with a rifle. I decided I want to buy one. Can anyone recommend an online shop and the type of rifle? I want something good, but not too expensive. I also see size selections and I'm not sure what size to get. I'm 6 feet tall - assuming it's height related.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.