Room_101
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Posts posted by Room_101
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Your looking at the code and saying well since I don't find it disrespectful...it must not be disrespectful at all...That is not how our US codes work. Have you ever heard ignorantia juris non excusat? I think they same applies here.
Using your logic would then mean under this same code that the desecration of the flag must be "subjective" as well.
"Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both."
There's an interesting irony in your post here. You discuss ignorantia juris non excusat, which states that, basically, not knowing something is illegal doesn't make you innocent.
And then you state a quote from the code: "Whoever knowingly mutilates..."
...interesting!
Once again, I claim that the issue is with the writing of the code, NOT with how particular corps handled their flags on Finals night.
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For the record...The Code is compiled by the Office of the Law Revision Counsel of the United States House of Representatives.
Okay. Then they should be more, uh, explicit (where's Weiner when you need him?) in outlining what is disrespectful and what is not. If it's not clear what is and what isn't, then it's not fair to point to something relatively trivial and label it disrespectful.
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My question would be who taught them that "drowning puppies" is an acceptable way to honor and respect our flag?
(Not even sure what "drowning puppies" is supposed to mean in this usage. Is drowning puppies legal?)
I'm not sure if your question is serious (especially in light of your post just above that one), but I was simply answering his sarcasm with even more sarcasm.
The Flag Code states that: "No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America." The problem with this is that "disrespect" is such an unbelievably subjective term. What is considered disrespectful by Triple Forte, Liahona, Stu, and others is not disrespectful to me (and others).
It's a subjective term. If anything, the fault lies with (gasp!) the writers of the Flag Code.
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So, when I observed a large group of high school kids walking through the stands during the singing of the National Anthem chit-chatting away, not following any set formal code of ethnics toward the Flag, they were, "in their own way", honoring and respecting the Flag; Wow, thank you, I got it now!
Yes, and when three rows over a group of teenagers is drowning puppies, they are ALSO honoring and respecting the flag "in their own way."
...give me a break! That had nothing to do with my submission!
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Could it be possible that he just wants a break? why does it have to be a conflict
Because there was one. For many, many years.
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If you aren't going to do it right, don't do it at all.
I just plain don't understand this mentality.
I really believe that most Americans would NEVER notice if a flag doesn't have a spike or an eagle up top. If they did notice it, they probably wouldn't have known that it is somehow offensive, against the rules, or what-have-you (though I never saw any mention of this in the Code).
Americans (again, my opinion) do have respect for the flag, and when they see it, all kinds of memories and emotions flow through their minds...with or without a spike on top, or someone guarding it for 15 minutes, etc.
So you would REALLY rather there be no flag at all--to deprive everyone of the flag--than to have a flag without some little spike on top?
I just don't get it.
EDIT: I'm NOT trying to undermine anyone's feelings of pride in this country, and I am CERTAINLY not disrespecting those that have gone through our military over the last 200+ years. I just think the "all or nothing" mentality isn't worth it...
...it's the sacrifice of many for the benefit of only the very select few that want to see that spike on top (or whatever the error may be).
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All these different predictions are meaningless without an inside knowledge of the dynamics and relationships behind the PEOPLE. Not the drum corps staff members. The real, honest to goodness human beings.
I suspect things wouldn't be so rose colored if such items were aired in public.
You are absolutely correct. Look, not to dampen anyone's spirits, but there have been some major personality conflicts in the Phantom Regiment. The first victim was after the 2006 season (not even the DIRECTOR was safe...!), and Rennick was the biggest name that left. I expect great things from Regiment now that the real problem has (finally) been taken care of.
Mark my words...Rennick and Shaw will NEVER be paired up again.
EDIT: The guy above me is also spot on.
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Thank you Stu for your post. I was really troubled by those comments of the other poster as well.
Oh how they do not understand the ironic naive hypocrisy in which the U.S. flag is actually the symbol that gives them the ability to hold their various opinions on trivializing the respect of U.S. flag.
Alas, I understand this very well.
In the future, might I ask you to please refrain from insulting my intelligence, as I have never once slighted yours.
We share difference opinions, sure. There's no need to claim my ignorance by stating that I do not understand something.
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I would like to point out to you this section of the United states Code concerning "RESPECT" of the flag...
"No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
© The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning."
...okay...
a) Did you see a corps displaying their flag with the union down?
b) Did you see it touch the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise?
c) Did you see it carried flat or horizontally?
d) Did you see it used as bedding or drapery? Was it ever festooned?
e) Did you see it stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way?
f) Did you see it used as a covering for a ceiling?
g) Did you see it marked with any insignia, letter, word, etc?
h) Did you see it used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything?
i) Did you see it used for advertising purposes?
j) Did you see it used as a costume or athletic uniform?
k) Did you see it flown in such a condition that it was no longer a fitting emblem for display?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, then we'll talk.
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I also observed that one corps had an American Flag bearer with no one guarding the flag. After about 15 minutes....a saber and rifle joined the lone American Flag bearer.
...was there ever a possibility of anyone harming the flag during those 15 minutes?
I saw three American Flags without a spike or eagle at the top of the flag pole.
...I never knew that flags were supposed to have one or the other. Quite frankly, even if I had known, I really doubt I would have noticed something so slight.
People....it's DCI finals retreat....can we please show some respect...and get this right.......
This should be cakewalk stuff for these so-called drum corps staff geniuses....
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With all due respect, is this really that big of a deal? So many of these rules regarding the American flag (gasp, a lowercase f!!!) are so unbelievably archaic. In 1790, I'm sure it was important to have someone guarding the flag. But at DCI Finals over two centuries later, if there's no guard for 15 minutes, is that really all that offensive?
As for no spike or eagle, the "Flag Code" states that anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag" is enough to constitute the flag. In other words, if it's enough to give off the impression that it's an American flag, then it's an American flag. So what does it matter if there's no spike or eagle on top? The point still gets across, right?
I can think of so many things I witnessed and heard at Finals that were more offensive than some set of antiquated rules that are, in my opinion, just a waste of extraneous effort.
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The conference before semis to "make things more consistent" is like a yellow slip of paper telling judges how to score finals.
...huh?
Is there something I don't know about?
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it began in 1999 with "The Planets," which to me remains Cavies' signature show
FYI, "The Planets" that you're probably referring to was their 1995 championship show (though they had played The Planets before that). 1999 WAS, however, the first instance of the "diamond cutter," but most people just remember that from Niagara Falls, their 2000 show.
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NOTE: THIS IS A WHAT-IF QUESTION. I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYTHING LIKE WE SHOULD EXTEND THEM.
Suppose that there was another week or two of drum corps. How would you think the different corps from this year would fare? Would some of the shows continue to rise? Or did some of them run out of gas for that last week? If this were to happen, how do you think finals placement would turn out?
I think you're looking for an answer like "Corps A would stall and not have much else to clean, while Corps B would have an extra week of cleaning to do and ultimately take over Corps A."
However, this ultimately points to (I think) a mistake on Corps B's part for miscalculating the time they had to refine their product. In this scenario, Corps A gets punished for accurately planning out their summer so well.
I've heard this argument many times over the years: That Phantom would have won with one extra week in 2006, that Crown would have won in 2009, etc. In my opinion, that shows complete disrespect for the members and staff of the championship corps and how they planned their summers. (Not to mention that both instances, in my opinion, are false.)
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2008 was one of the weirdest years ever, and definitely a joke from the judging standpoint. Quite a few judges played the numbers games deliberately the whole finals week to make the most newsworthy story possible, and saving a corps from extinction in the process. Great for DCI, and probably for the activity, but unfortunately not one for the obvious best 2 corps of the season, losing to what should have been a 3rd possibly 4th placing show.
THANK YOU! I always love to meet others who share that opinion!(Oh, and I would love to see a repeat of the 2000 Finals, personally
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Phantom needs to figure out how to do classical music with a drill that is not stuck in the 90s. Unfortunately that's never gonna happen until the Farrell reign is over.
:worthy: (Can I throw JD in there too? Come on, we all know he's the reason Rennick left!)
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It takes more than pretty sounds to win in this activity.
And plenty of those sounds weren't even pretty
Back on topic, I think the Cavies are better than Crown (and BD and Cadets), but with deviations in the judging panels, it could be anywhere from 0.5 to 2.0 points...it just depends on the night and the panel.
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Christian Carichner recruiting his band kids and having them switch instruments to march.
...really? Is that the wisest thing for their musical well-being?
(I'm not judging, I'm asking. I guess it depends on their actual instrument and the instrument they play while marching, but it seems like it might even be detrimental to their playing...!)
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Scatter drills as an excuse for visual not very demanding.
It's won two championships in as many years...
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Reminds me of the story (wish I could remember the details) about an English symphony orchestra conductor who said, "I never look at the brass. It only encourages them."
It was actually German composer/conductor Richard Strauss, talking about the trombone section specifically!
(But to be more on topic...Please, please don't.)
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Try doing a Juliet show with Shostakovich -
?I can think of plenty of Shostakovich possibilities! Most people only know Shostakovich through his 5th, 7th, and 10th symphonies. He's got a full 15 of them, 15 string quartets to boot, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. He was an incredibly prolific composer, especially considering his circumstances. You should check out some more of his stuff!
Maybe Prokofiev's "Romeo and Juliet" works, because his style is distinctly different than Shos'
Yes and no. I can think of plenty of pieces to play for you where you would immediately think "that's Shostakovich!" when it was in fact Prokofiev (and vice versa).
Anyway, I'm getting off-topic. Regiment 96, like Regiment 08, was one of those once in a blue moon opportunities where all the stars lined up on one particular night for something magical to happen. I really, really doubt it will happen this year.
On another note, you Phantom guys LOVE to make connections to 96
Was it 07 quarterfinals where Phantom had the same score and placement as Regiment 96, and people started going nuts? Geez 
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My GOD they play. Making the judges lose their pencils like gang-busters.
And how about thothe TALL tubath?
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Interesting question.
The Bluecoats did it in 2007, I believe.
It depends on how we're looking at it. Do the Blue Stars count? In '72 they beat everyone except the Kingsmen, who are no longer around. However, corps like Crown have since emerged, and the Blue Stars have never beaten Crown...at least I don't think so.
However we look at it, it's probably a long way off. It took the Bluecoats and Crown a number years (at least 5, but closer to 10) to find their feet and move up the ranks. We have some corps that could potentially be starting that kind of move, but we won't really know for a while now.
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pretty imprethive. :worthy:
Thanks for the great review! I'm with you 100%, which doesn't happen very often.
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I say Academy.
You can only throw so much money and good staff at a program for so long before it finally breaks through.
Their brass staff is a top 5 brass staff, not a non-finalist brass staff.
Um...really? No offense to the Academy (who I absolutely love and cannot wait to see in Finals soon this year), but by top 5 do you mean better than the horn staff of BD, Cavaliers, Cadets, Bluecoats, Crown, etc, etc.?
Or do you just mean that they are capable of also teaching those top 5 groups?
DCI World Class Finals Retreat 2011
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
That's fair, but though certain corps were "without proper guard," I really don't believe they were "trolling along as if [it were] a burden."
Isn't that putting words in their mouths?