DrillmanSop06
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Posts posted by DrillmanSop06
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One of the challenges that up and coming corps have with moving up in ranks is member retention... getting kids to stay with the corps, rather than move up to a top tier corps.
One thought would be to offer very talented young performers multi-year contracts. In this scenario, they would receive a reduced cost of participation, up front, for every year they agree to lock in.
For example, a kid with 5 years to march could be offered a 5 year contract where the cost of participation is dramatically reduced on the assumption that they would remain all 5 years.
Instead of say a full $2,000, they would pay $200 less for every year on the contract past the first. So, on a 5 year contract, the kid would only end up paying only $1,200 per year.
If the kid were to leave, in order to be released, they would need to pay the balance owed on the contract. For example, if the kid left after 2 years, they would have to pay a balance of $1,400.
I know Madison has done something similar with reduced fees for returning vets, but in this case, it would encourage the best young talent to come as they could receive the benefit up front... and it creates a strong incentive to stay.
In this model, corps could quickly develop stability by recruiting the best young talent to lock in multi-year contracts when positions open.
If a member has a bad experience, they should be under no obligation to continue. The current vet discounts most corps offer are a good start but most young people are NOT in a position to commit to multiple seasons. Some are, sure. But the vast majority are definitely not.
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Restructuring the DCI board of directors.
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Evidently to this person, they were not. I seriously doubt this is indicative of the Blue Knights experience, it's not uncommon for a member or two to have a less than "family" type experience, but I've only ever heard very positive things about BK.
Usually, there's a reason for it. The worst is when one of "those people" go on to make a top corps or win a ring. Well, it's good for them, I suppose. Nothing like an unbearable tick box on the field who had the chops to go chase a ring...
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Speaking of poor vet retention, when vets of one corps go to march another corps, it's usually to one that's placing higher than the one they're a vet of.
it's like that time Madison picked up a former Blue De- ...wait.
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exactly which corps that have won in the past 30 years shouldn't have won?
Loaded question; there is justification for each championship a corps has won.
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I think you meant...
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I enjoy 2006 more than I enjoy 1996.
But 1996 was better.
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And I have taken people to the theater events, and to live shows, who became new fans. In fact, I was at a grocery store in late Aug striking up a conversation with a person in line, and found out the person in front of us had gotten dragged to the theater showing of prelims and was amazed that DCI was so great!! Our experiences are therefore vastly different. Also, you are stating that a corps will play just bubble-gum music at the arts fests then turn around and play just esoteric unaccessible material in the contest. Really? Moreover, if a person is not moved by a 2011 Scouts show, or a 2011 Crown show, or a 2008 Regiment show, or a 2009 SCV show they will not enjoy the drum corps genera no matter how things are changed up. And I really encourage you to do this research: Watch the DVD's of all of the shows in the past ten years; divide them into two categories 1) Esoteric/Cerebral and 2) Accessible/Entertaining; and you will find out that most, a large majority, actually lean toward category 2. We are actually just jaded because of the few esoteric, way out there shows by a few corps who received high scores for those programs.
The problem is the number of shows that are designed to be entertaining/accessible and end up coming out esoteric/cerebral.
It's not accessible if you allude to something closely resembling the harmony of an accessible piece for 2 bars at a time.
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I agree, but I'd like to know more specifically what you mean by succeed in this context. If a corps is not advancing, how can it still succeed?
Success can mean different things to different individuals. I can't put into words the feeling of success. And I marched in a 13th place drum corps. The competition has literally nothing to do with how successful the season was overall.
This actually happened: A kid auditioned for corps xyz in November; *the kid was offered a performing position* during the camp season; he attended all camps, paid thousands in fees and another couple of thousand in travel expenses; then in early June, just prior to tour, the corps told the kid, "Umm, we just filled your spot with a better player who just arrived; so we are moving you out of your position over to equipment detail. You can do that or go home this summer (without reimbursement)". Drillman, I know you have a preference, but are you stating this is actually an *acceptable* way for a corps to operate within DCI? You seem to imply it would be the kids fault for not knowing any better. I mean we are talking about youth here not paid professional adult performers.
It happens all the time. Especially in the ranks of corps who really want to move up. Those corps make choices that leave kids high and dry. And for what? Tenths of points. Doesn't sound like success to me...
Then again, that's only me. It's their choice to operate in this fashion. Some corps WILL NOT do this in order to win. They'll keep members. They'll be loyal regardless of talent (within reason).
I can think of 3 notorious offenders off the top of my head.
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I would pay a corps one million dollars to field a show entirely based on the music of Justin Bieber.
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Just curious: If the choice to win entails winning at *all* cost such as a corps going into extreme deficit spending, consuming not only their own resources but the pilfering of other people's (corps) resources to expand beyond their means, slashing and burning as they go to get what they want when they want, you say that is neither correct nor incorrect within the context of DCI?
It includes everything from overspending to cutting an alternate in favor of talent when a hole opens up. Some corps make those choices and they are free to do so. Other corps refuse to do so. And that's OK too.
Where I marched, we often accepted the kids who got cut from corps like Crown during tour. Philosophies are different in every corps. Some are willing to cut a member loose for less than others. On the opposite side of things, some are willing to spend a lot of money while others aren't.
I have a preference on what is right and what is wrong but I'm refraining from passing explicit judgement because clearly all those organizations succeed to some degree.
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I marched under the current Crossmen brass staff and what they expect/encourage isn't much different from any other corps: tone production, breath control, flexibility, etc.
Oh - and put EVERYTHING YOU PLAY to your feet. Everything. Long tones, articulation exercises, audition materials. Put it all to your feet. Between that and breathing...Actually, that's most of what I remember...So much breathing.
Get in shape. Because if things haven't changed, that staff had us running breathing blocks every day all the way through Finals. This is not only a musical challenge but an extreme physical one if you aren't in shape. Even if you ARE in shape, it's designed to push you physically.
Start running and start working on breath control while running. (In 4, out 4, in 4, out 8, in 4, out 16, in 2, out 32, etc.)
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it may bite them BUT we still dont have the right tell them how to spend anything. If I were donating 10 grand I can decided how that 10 will be spent or what i want it to go to I guaess but not how the rest of THEIR money is spent
You don't keep handing a spoiled child money when he'll simply turn around and spend it. That's rewarding negative behavior. Do you have any right to tell the child how to spend his money? Sure. But why would you continue to give him money in the first place?
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The corps will more money in the bank and fewer fans in the seats STILL have more money in the bank. True statement, no? The fans clearly weren't helping Rockford avoid gross financial mismanagement because even though all those fans were in the lot during their show, a lower-tier corps was NOT in danger of going under.
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I've said it in here before, and will say it again. Cash doesnt fix everything, and more of the bottom echelon of corps in terms of scoring are ine better financial shape than those at the top.
Why? Because they aren't willing to blow it all just to say they won.
That's exactly it. There are more corps who KNOW and DON'T CARE that they won't win than there are corps who want to win and are willing to make the choices required of such a mission.
In my eyes, neither is incorrect. No one marches, say, Boston Crusaders, because they want to win a DCI Championship.
And what happens when a corps like The Academy has a fantastic, engaging show that moves audiences much more so than the top-scoring corps? What then? Heck. Let's look at 2011 Madison. They're in the lower-echelon of Finalist corps and are no where NEAR the level of performance that the Blue Devils are. But which corps had people engaged in their performance?
This debate is starting to sound more and more like the debate in education. Because if you want to use an objective measure of performance quality as a determining factor in division, you're going to need to completely overhaul the assessment system. At that point, since the competition is arguably the least important element to a drum corps experience in 9 cases out of 10 (I'm looking at you, Team Crying-Over-Second-Place), when is it not worth the cost/effort?
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But, in *Danielray's* plan, the mismanaged Rockford crew who almost bankrupted that corps would get even more cash to mismanage (simply because of their on-field performance quality) and Pioneer would be thrown out of DCI (again simply for their on-field performance).
See, I don't agree with performance quality determining financial/logistical support.
The show is the least important part of the drum corps experience.
It is also the most important part of the drum corps business.
That's why we're in a stalemate here, really. Stasis cannot be reached until we determine the objective of DCI drum corps.
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but then...LOL....some of them are the worst at fiscal responsibility, yet they get the most toys for free. So you want to give them more cash, or reducde expenditures, so they can spend even more stupidly than they do.
Genius. I mean, this is like being in Congress!
This is a good point. Look at the gross mismanagement in Rockford. Corps who manage their corps responsibly (i.e. Pioneer, Colts, etc.) deserve more than a really good marching band who can't figure out how not to nearly go broke and only save things at the last minute thanks to alumni and someone finally dealing with it.
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I wish SCV would go back to all bla- wait.
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...naked while in ensemble....
Like I said! Dreams about ensemble! XD
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So, I have been reading it correctly. Danielray wants DCI to throw out the smaller corps just as the G7 proposed! Garfield, on the other hand, is attempting to propose weening the self-relent multi-million dollar corps such as the G7 off the DCI financial teet so that the smaller corps can have a way to grow and prosper within DCI.
You'll just post the opposite of whatever he says. It's plain as day what your game is. And it's killed your credibility. He could literally say ANYTHING and you'd argue against it on principle.
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I'm sure everyone here has had those dreams where you woke up late for ensemble, didn't know any of the show, etc.
I'm still having those!
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What you are proposing sounds like the *reverse* of the G7 proposal. While they were proposing to completely do away with all DCI financial support for the small or up-start corps and direct all DCI financial support to themselves, what you are proposing would be to remove the G7 (or those in their caliber) out of the DCI financial pool (because they are financially self-reliant) and direct DCI financial support to the pool of smaller or up-start corps. This is a very interesting proposal because it does encourage growth into financial independence. Ahhh, but then we are just discussing a theoretical are we not? I mean the current structure would not allow for this vision to transpire; and I do not see the current voting body or board members to relinquish all of their current power to restructure in such a manner. So, how do you propose to overcome that obstacle?
However, you've clearly not been reading at all. I've BARELY been reading and it's clear that what you're suggesting isn't anything like what is being discussed.
Daniel wants start-up, lower-tier corps to do their own thing while DCI markets the cream of the crop. You're suggesting the opposite.
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What you are proposing sounds like the *reverse* of the G7 proposal. While they were proposing to completely do away with all DCI financial support for the small or up-start corps and direct all DCI financial support to themselves, what you are proposing would be to remove the G7 (or those in their caliber) out of the DCI financial pool (because they are financially self-reliant) and direct DCI financial support to the pool of smaller or up-start corps. This is a very interesting proposal because it does encourage growth into financial independence. Ahhh, but then we are just discussing a theoretical are we not? I mean the current structure would not allow for this vision to transpire; and I do not see the current voting body or board members to relinquish all of their current power to restructure in such a manner. So, how do you propose to overcome that obstacle?
EXACTLY! Danielray is NOT arguing the G7 angle as you have suggested repeatedly. Glad you've come to realize this!
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If you understood the picture below... you would have understood that "no idea" was a severely sarcastic comment in response to just how absurd the question was.
There would be a minimum standard.... meet it now, you're in.... meet it later, your in.
It's not the ####### Higgs-Boson, it's simply financial stability and getting kids to play in tune and march and play at a reasonable level.
No one outside the top 15 corps is playing and marching at a "reasonable" level?
Multi-year Performance Contracts
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I'm just saying no one who had any semblance of common sense would sign it. I think corps could OFFER it as an option to returning veterans for the duration of their marching years, though.
It would be irresponsible to offer this to first-year members.