cfirwin3
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Posts posted by cfirwin3
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The price of fame and intrigue.
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These discussions are the the best, real solution, apart from his VIP passes being revoked.
There's a sense in which we would like to erase his name from drumcorps... but then there is the reality in which the best thing to do is to name George Hopkins, out loud, with regularity and always in a negative, factual context.
George Hopkins is a bad dude. His presence at DCI events or at any affiliate organization events makes those organizations look bad, and they should hear about it as often as it happens (with an EARFUL whenever it appears to happen via official credentials).
An organization should feel pressure to approach him, and ASK him to leave with full ticket compensation and best wishes... thank you very much, and have a nice day. And certainly, they should never feel comfortable entertaining any sort of invite or VIP treatment. Such an approach should be understood as a major PR liability.
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- Popular Post
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9 hours ago, C.Holland said:His daughter isn’t the concern. He is.
True. But as life goes, he is a liability to her and that is their problem. Consequences are deeper and uglier than pleas of no contest and criminal/civil penalties.
It's for her to discover that he can't help her interests in drumcorps and his presence can only cause increasing harm. It is his problem that the best way for him to see the fruits of her labor is via video recording. If she's mad about that... she can pound sand, as far as I'm concerned.
Conversely, it's for the rest in the activity (administration, parents, members, fans) to make all of this clear to both parties... and that's why we are talking about it, suppressing the nausea as we go.
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13 hours ago, Whiskey said:
Although I am one of the last ones to recommend the closure of any thread, I feel it is best this thread get closed. Facts are ok but this has the potential to get too volatile. We never know where this can go due to someone not being mindful and careful what is said.
I would say that it is important to close public comment threads only at the moment that they earn the consequence of closure and not a moment before.
There are lines to be crossed, and potentially much to be said and discussed well before that line is reached. If we can't take a shot at filling in all the space to the near side of the line, what good is a public forum?
It's okay that threads get shut down... when they deserve to be, and ultimately that is up to DCP. But for me, as little interest as I have discussing the man, if he chooses to pursue reentry to DCI in any manner... he should probably be discussed with regularity by those willing to do so and for those willing to listen.
My 2 cents.
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Just to clarify, nobody thinks that playing the clarinet is easy. The root of the concern is with preserving the brass and percussion ensemble idiom... like preserving string chamber orchestra, brass quintet or barbershop as strictly defined orchestrations.
I'm not in that camp so much... but I appreciate the concern that those folks have and recognize that it's not without merit. Every type of ensemble and genre has its snobbery, and there's nothing wrong with that.
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18 minutes ago, kdaddy said:
Presenting their 2023 program Torches and Pitchforks, DCI is proud to present... The Blue Devils
First of a 2 part series to be followed with 2024 "Get Off Our Lawn"
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Stopping by to say congratulations, Boston!
Outstanding achievement! Keep cranking and best of luck!
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17 hours ago, saxfreq1128 said:
I agree that they’ve made a choice to not rely on the same crowd-pleasing methods other corps, but you can’t seriously look at shows like Metamorph and Felliniesque and Ghostlight and think the designers were saying, “Boy, can’t wait for no one to like this!” The mirror show was one thing — it doesn’t characterize their entire championship output by any means. I think their shows are the output of a staff that wants to believe we can be entertained by things other than the usual. I think that’s … optimistic of them! I appreciate the effort.
Spot on.
BD merely prefers pseudo-esotera in their design... but last I checked, so does everyone else these days.
But to lean back on comments that I made weeks ago, foreseeing this exact lineup, BD doesn't play it safe. They play and march hard. That, in itself is highly entertaining, especially when viewed in-person. They have the greatest technical edge across all the technical captions year after year. If they aren't in 1st, they are in a close 2nd.
As mentioned earlier, they simply need to be beaten. I would love to see Bluecoats, Crown, Boston, SCV etc. Go there across every caption in their program writing... but each group gets pigeonholed in their designs as being great at 1 thing. BD did that with brass back in the day and they had fewer championships for a time.
BD is entertaining. They are also formidable. Crown is getting closer.
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On 7/15/2022 at 4:59 PM, lowend said:
Nothing prior to Bluecoats 2016 would be competitive now.
I think Blue Devils 2014 would have something to say about that. Merely adding plumed shakos doesn't diminish the rest of the production that is essentially lock step with today's design. There are a few other highly thematic stage prop heavy designs back to the 80's that would generally fit in, but BD 2014 could contend... right here, right now 😉
And for what it's worth... for me, BD 1988 is the most "timeless" show ever... but timelessness doesn't really work with the premise of the idea about shows working today among shows that are all BUT timeless. I think it's a better exercise to find shows today that would have been appreciated 20, 30, 40 years ago in spite of differences... making them "timeless". For that, I go for Bluecoats 2016. They looked amazing and sounded old school from beginning to end.
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3 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:
You’d probably be okay. Now if I did…different story.
You and me both, I would imagine.
As to the general decrease in parade activity and meaning for such events, I think it is largely a cultural shift away from hometown activity on major holidays. During federal holidays, families get the heck out of Dodge. During the school year, it has become impossible for many schools to engage in marching music and other marching groups due to the lack of availability.
Honestly, this isn't some sort of depression, or decline that demonstrates anything other than the ability and motivation for many families to travel when they are free. But there it is, it's less important because it has become less important in people's lives. I certainly can't judge that negatively or mourn the change.
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4 hours ago, Vidal28Rdg said:
More data is needed on Crown-Bloo as well. But the recent historical trends when Bloo is contending for a title say that they really do keep pace with Crown and can even potentially beat them in the whole music caption.
There's no such thing as trends. There is only the shows, right here and right now (if you will forgive the pun). My assessment was made without the scores, and then the scores confirmed my observations. I don't see this as a 'wait and see' sort of mystery. I think the standings are fairly observable without the judges. Bloo has only ever had 2 seasons where they actually had a shot at the title and this design is somewhat safer than both of those programs, which were not vastly superior to the nearest contenders at the time. Watch and see if I am right.
I do like the show. My favorite shows of all time were 3rd and 4th place programs... it's not about the scores for me. I'm merely giving an honest appraisal.
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22 minutes ago, MidWAmericanArts said:
I could be way off, but I see everything so differently than you. I’m a Devils fan and not particularly in love with the Bluecoats show. I think the Bluecoats show design is clearly superior to Crown’s and with stronger performances, they’ll pass Crown. Crown will almost certainly take music over Bloo this year, but come finals, I’d be shocked if Bloo didn’t surpass Crown in GE and Visual.
I think you are right about visual. But honestly, visual is the more accessible element to move the needle on and Crown's visual design is pretty good. That GE caption though...
I have been saying for several years following their win in 16, Bloo needs to get more aggressive in more captions, outside of GE. They have done better with visual this time around, but their gamble on the narrative GE design and a lack of momentum on technical music composition (compared to the target field)... I just don't see it.
2016 was the last REALLY aggressive music design that they had. They have been more or less reserved since. I think that was what made them so back-and-forth with BD in 2019. If the music book had gone for the jugular... they would have sailed away with the title and locked it down early. Instead they were having to hold up point values in a smaller set of subcaptions and hold on tight to GE.
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11 hours ago, Chief Guns said:
Yep and I am here and ready to take it on the chin, and hand over my receipt. I was wrong with last night's outcome. Crown won fair and square, no excuses.
However you don't speak for everyone. There was people saying it's over based off one Crown performance in the show thread the other night. Those are the people I was referring to.
But in the end you collected my receipt, and I own it and stand by my comment. No backpedaling here.
I'll chime in here (as I am perhaps one of the "people" referred to).
I think it's important to acknowledge that not all prognostication is equal and/or well reasoned. So sure, when folks merely take the scores on nights 1 or 2 and call the end, based on the scores alone... yes, that's lazy and somewhat cynical.
I, on the other hand, was pointing out that the scores seem to verify what I am observing about the Bloo show in comparison to the Crown show (and BD as well). Bluecoats' design is cohesive, articulate, beautiful, satisfying, clean, cool and complete (in spite of some that keep saying that the show is "unfinished"... probably referring to typical closer and impact replacement material that is inevitable for most groups).
But... it is not competitively aggressive with respect to a title win (mostly in technical areas, but also in GE). Crown and BD are clearly up for it this time around. Generally, this kind of condition doesn't really change over the course of a month and a half. The shows change a little, but it takes A LOT to move the needle a little and the Bloo show design needs the needle to move a little in a lot of places. The mature and appropriate thing to do is to max out the potential for the show that you have, rather than rewrite for a show that checks all the boxes for a win. Usually, the pursuit of rewrites that can contend ends in mish-mash that not only falls short, but also muddles up the otherwise effective original concept. Bloo won't make that mistake. They would rather have a great show that makes sense and follows a consistent pattern than convince judges that they have the better comparison against corps X in the rubric.
I think they are fielding a great 3rd place show... it might even be 4th or 5th if it levels off early... which less aggressive material can do (and they have done that before).
I am Bloo through and through, but I think I am giving an honest and respectful appraisal.
I seriously could call many of the caption placements, if not the spread from independent viewings of the 2 shows before they met up. I called it before it happened, because I think it is apparent to anyone that is a discerning viewer.
I'm not disappointed, or bleak about it. I'm very proud of Bloo. This is a super cool and whacky show. It's very Bluecoats!
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4 hours ago, Incognito365 said:
Although some corps change their ending and lose a few points in GE...Relentlessly...
I don't recall that they lost anything by flipping the script on the narrative. I think the disappointment lies with the fans that felt that doing such a thing would improve their standing, but that was never going to happen. It takes an awful lot to move the needle a little with respect to program changes... and apart from planned changes (like ending drill sequences) significant 'enhancement' alterations often fail epically, just ask the Cadets.
A good beginning design, and then slow and steady wins the race. Without that dominating introductory design, playing catch-up is usually painful and frequently futile.
It's a better strategy to just work on your show and max out its potential... and have fun despite the score and placement.
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1 hour ago, saxfreq1128 said:
With the way this conversation is going I really thought the spread would be something decisive. They’re exaggerating, your honor.
.4 difference on the first weekend in July? If that’s a slam dunk, I’m Madonna.
I see that spread opening up. I don't think the Bluecoats are going to swap places with Crown all season... I wouldn't put money on it, but I think the signs are there not only across the captions, but also in the designs.
These more general themes (like Crown's) and less narrative shows tend to do better in the long run for GE. This, plus the competitive (if not dominant) writing and execution among the sections for Crown is likely to continue slotting to the top or a tight second with BD in the mix.
We may see fewer corps holding the captions as well, which isn't good for a drumcorps like the Bluecoats that put their focus on GE design.
In light of BD and Crown, I think Bloo's show is screaming 'fun times in 3rd place'. The show that everyone wants to see before watching the championship program at the end of the night.
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1 hour ago, Big Bird said:
It’s clearly unfinished. If that ending is the real ending, I will eat my shoe.
Finished doesn't mean that portions don't change. In the early season, the scores really don't acount for that. None of the corps are fielding their final closing moments right now OR other major impacts that are still being worked on. The show is finished because it is complete and satisfies the time requirements. No group ever makes a big surge by adding that killer ending that they have been working on.
Once upon a time, contending corps would come out and stand still for the final 1-2 minutes of their show... that's what we call unfinished. Today, they enter competition with multiple variations of several impact moments being worked on simultaneously, but nearly all of the shows are complete these days. Their move-in training is also about twice as long as it was 20 years ago.
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2 hours ago, Big Bird said:
No fake Bloo hype. Finished show with clean brass beat very unfinished show with dirty hornline by 0.4. Not worried in the slightest
Oh c'mon...
There's no 'fake hype' and Bloo is neither 'unfinished' or 'dirty'
I have hated this nonsense 'dirty v. clean' distinction among top groups since the early 90's. It's fantasy to suggest that any of these shows are 'dirty'. The true distinction is about a ratio of composition to execution and the comparisons are minimal, but sufficient to warrant a placement and very close scores.
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I argue that there are very few championship shows that are not very entertaining and aesthetically pleasing to a vast majority of the audience.
I find that this premise of judges OR fans arrises as a reaction to favorite shows (meaning favorite corps) not winning. Back in the 90s it was the Madison Scouts fandom that drove the premise. From those early message boards and conversations, you would have thought that the championship contenders were the biggest sell-outs in the history of the activity. There was fierce debate. Today, folks talk about those contending shoes as the model for both excellence and entertainment.
Part of the equation that I think gets overlooked is that being excellent is a very stable recipe for entertainment. The value of an excellent show rarely needs advocacy and argument. Everybody in line of sight and earshot knows that it's good and they are entertained. The judging criteria represents fandom more that we tend to recognize.
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11 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:
Bloo has to win GE, and tonight that was the difference.
Bloo has to win GE and something else. They have traded their visual program for a fairly safe musical book and slightly more obscure GE design.
It is Crown's to lose and it's not too early to say that. The Bloo show (while great) is too safe to contend, and it probably can't really be altered to make it more competitive without doing damage.
That's my take.
Crown has a really great show and it would seem that their time is, ehem, right here right now.
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4 minutes ago, queenanne_1536 said:
I didn't mean that figuratively. Of course, they aren't sitting around talking about how they can beat the Devils. Rather, they know the title goes through Concord.
No... really... they aren't thinking about the Blue Devils. I mean, not at all. That's just not how it works. Even after the scores on a given night. Only the fans think about "who to beat".
They literally only obsess over the discoveries at rehearsal and the adjudication feedback that they have control over.
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1 minute ago, queenanne_1536 said:
Devils will be vying for the title with this show - 1,000%. It's been almost 20 years since Devils weren't in a position to win the title. The most foolish thing anyone in this activity can do is count the Devils out. You know every single staff member on every single corps is trying to figure out how to beat the Blue Devils.
Yes to the first, no to the second.
Staff members at other corps aren't thinking one bit about the Blue Devils. They are thinking about making their shows great, and tackling puzzles that arise in daily rehearsal blocks.
Contending isn't about comparison to other shows. It's about playing to strengths and maxing out potential.
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4 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:
Sounds like you saw the s same video I saw. All will be clear tomorrow night.
Just saw the video. The show is formidable. Very formidable. It's an aggressive, winning design and they are performing it very well. And they have certainly mastered electronic integration, a strong visual program, clever concept and the music is going to be beloved by the fans.
I just don't see where the naysayers that suggest that something has been lost in contemporary drumcorps are coming from. So many powerful groups with mind blowing designs. Corps today come out on day 1 looking and sounding like it's finals week.
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21 minutes ago, Big Bird said:
If playing the hardest brass book won gold medals, Crown would have more than one. I’m not too worried about the Bluecoats book yet. I’m sure they’ll add more to it throughout the season. If it’s the same in San Antonio then I’d worry more about them playing it safe
Ehh. Not if that's the singular focus. THE competitive strategy is to attempt to dominate as many areas as possible. The only drumcorps that really plays that game (always has) is BD. Bluecoats are a solid drumcorps, but apart from their risks in show design, they are fairly safe in most areas, most of the time (compared to the field of contenders).
For Crown, Brass isn't enough because it isn't everything (while it certainly isn't 'nothing'). But if they pick up one more area, they are in a great position. So it goes with Bluecoats. Bluecoats are a GE powerhouse. But they also only have a single championship. You have got to have more than that, or at least a solid second place across the board with at least 1 dominated caption.
So, playing the hardest brass book well, plus only a little more everywhere else does win a championship.
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26 minutes ago, waliman4444 said:
I just saw a performance by Crown ..couldn't see the design from the angle of the video but the music book ...is FIRE!!!!! They've become my favorite total show so far musically...Hope their show design brings success..peace
Sarcasm mode, on:
I bet they didn't sound, ehem... safe.
Sarcasm mode, off.
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Hard to swallow
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Ooo... been holding that in very long?
The old 'age gap wars' nonsense is about a few intense people hammering hard on the fair aesthetic preferences of the many.
(Insert "Man in the Mirror" chorus here)