cfirwin3
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Posts posted by cfirwin3
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8 minutes ago, George Dixon said:
I’m going to say something very controversial
I don’t think BD will be in contention at the end of the season, it will come down to Bluecoats and Crown imo
Shot in the dark? Or do you see some evidence of a decline?
It's one thing to say that they may not win... but it's another to say they will be out of contention. Seems to me that would require a decline of some sort as they are almost always in contention due to performance scores alone.
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32 minutes ago, MarchMello10 said:
Bluecoats- As “trippy” as the concept and visual design is, the music sounded surprisingly safe to me. Not sure I dig it musically just yet but I’m sure it’ll grow on me towards the end of the season. Visually though this show is really incredible, especially the moment toward the first half with the giant wheels.
I think you are spot on with this. There is some solid material in there with that competitive spark of difficulty... but there are an awful lot of sustained chord progressions and minimalist/layered ostinato patterns saturating the program. The Cavaliers nailed down a lot of historical wins with that kind of approach, and even the Bluecoats have had some success with it... but with Crown, Boston, Blue Devils, etc. out there, Bloo needs to bring the heat with respect to showy/flashy musical features that don't defer too much weight to electronic soloists. We need more scale patterns and runs. They would go a long way to write in some more Mello runs on the sustained sections and add a few trumpet embellishments. It shouldn't be hard to do...
I hope someone from Bloo takes notice. With the great visual design on top of their GE, I would hate to see music suffer due to a minor lack of competitive content.
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3 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:
I find it bizarre that there's this huge distinction between top 3 and top 6 ( or top 5) now.
It used to be that there was a top 6.
There still is.
There have never been more corps (since very early in DCI) that can field a winning program than we have right now. It's just that a few of them are more consistent at getting the mix just right.
I think that fans just talk in terms of the contending field year to year and it creates the impression of some great superiority. Was it 2009 where 8 corps had all won 1st over every other corps either directly or by competitive comparison? Groups have only gotten more proficient and talented since then.
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1 minute ago, bluecoats88 said:
What he actually said was in these early shows they aren't worried so much about getting an accurate number, ie. cavies are .5 ahead of Phantom in field percussion, but what they are trying to get correct is the order, ie. cavies field percussion was better than PRs as an example. so spreads and such aren't that meaningful in the early shows, as long as the corps are in the correct order of placement based on their performances.
That sounds more like what I would expect them to discuss on the air... and it is the reality.
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3 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:
Do you remember back in the early 2000’s when the Cap Sound girl found a tote sheet on the field during their show at DCM prelims in Dekalb? There was a huge uproar and the judge got into some hot water. Keith Gee was the corps director. I’m sure if he was here he’d back me up on this. It was a huge deal. Quite revealing especially since the Cap Sound kids were always sitting out finals because they had the misfortune of being a Div 2 corps.
Oh my. I had never heard about that one.
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5 minutes ago, Big Bird said:
It’s only slotting if every corps is at an even playing field and theyre simply not. If every corps had the same resources and talent as the top 3, then slotting would be an issue. But there is no feasible way that a corps like Crossmen or Colts finishes in the top 5, even if they execute their show flawlessly and to pretend like slotting is why they can’t do that is ignoring many other factors.
I would also suggest that the potential competitive group is much larger than 3 (it's more like 7 or 8). The issue in a particular season comes down to design. You gotta dance with the one that brung ya, and there's only so much alteration that groups can make before something is improved into a failure (there was a string of Cadet shows like that not too long ago, Crown 2014, Bluecoats 2018 etc.) You can have all the resources and just get locked out by design concepts, in fact that's most of the championship game every year.
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9 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:
Full disclosure: I watched the Detroit show at home. Not the theater. But a friend that I trust sent me this. I found it to be disheartening.
“During the Tour Premiere broadcast, did you hear one of the broadcast commentators talking about "placement".
They said the Judges spend the first couple of weeks figuring out placement.
Then spend the rest of the season concentrating on scores.
That sure sounds like "slotting".”
Oooo. Talk about saying the quiet part out loud.
Can anyone confirm that commentary?
To play Devil's advocate (pun partly intended), there is a reality to that assertion that doesn't necessarily violate the ability that corps have to be competitive. The issue is that if THIS is how it was put into words... it was a bad choice of words for this particular audience.
But truth be told, the older I get, the more this whole thing becomes like "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"... where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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3 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:
I’m really trying to understand what “playing to the sheets” means when we’re comparing specific shows, because that’s the only way I’ll ever understand how a 1.762 point difference between first place and fourth place can be blamed on “playing to the sheets,” and it’s the only way I’ll understand the logic behind saying that a corps that was a serious contender all season simply wasn’t playing the game as much. Because that’s ultimately what we’re talking about in the case of Crown 2019: a 4th place finish that was 1.762 points behind first. How is it that a corps gets ranked top 3 by three out of four GE judges and we’re still here saying they “didn't play to the sheets” as much as every other top contender? Genuinely. Is there a reason beyond “The show I personally enjoyed more scored lower”?
I mean, do I get to say that in 2013 and 2018 and 2016 BD just didn’t play to the sheets as much as Crown and Bloo and SCV? Because that honestly sounds like something a martian would say. Hide your pets if you hear someone say that.
People have been saying things like "playing to the sheets" since forever. It's all nonsense (much like the accusation about spending money on props and electronics). The fact is that pretty much any two of the contending groups could swap material at spring training and nail down the show just as well. None of these groups is significantly better at anything than the rest. Aesthetics, style and concept is what differentiates the field, and there is no template or cookie cutter design to follow. Far more high entertaining shows have won championships than not. Folks that say that they can spot the significant differences between 10ths of a point are fooling themselves.
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14 minutes ago, CAtenhut said:
People who dislike vocals or ugly costumes can blame Crown... I think they started those trends. 😁
For vocals... blame the Cadets. That one is entirely their fault, long, long before Crown's fairly tasteful use of the technique in the early 2010s.
Ugly uniforms that change with the tide... blame Star of Indiana.
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5 hours ago, saxfreq1128 said:
I’m wary of the way people blame BD for every trend that they dislike. There are plenty of new things happening in DCI that BD simply hasn’t done. I don’t see the BD of this new Bloo show at all. It’s all Bloo to me. The sound, structure, look, vibe are not BD at all. It tracks a lot more for the corps that did back to back Beatles shows and is now having its acid trip era just like the Beatles did lol. This show is SO modern Bloo to me — all about the vibes, showing off without “showing off.” That’s not BD’s schtick at all. I love that about it.
I have never blamed BD for anything. I was using their competitive design as a comparison. I loved BD long before I became a Bluecoat and they have always been and still are the ones to beat.
My point is that the Bloo program is closer to the Devils approach to design than it is to themselves. I can't recall anything musically about the program after the first viewing. I can recall THAT there were moments of high writing and execution, but nothing sticks in my mind apart from the novel group visuals. All of that is fairly unBluecoat. As I said before, it's all quite imaginative, but it's less characteristic to the tried and true mission to rope in the audience, all the time, at all cost... to send them away with the show deeply etched in their minds. It's very Blue Devils. Just don't group me in with folks that don't like the Blue Devils. I'm happy any time that they win.
It's not 'bad'.... look at the recap! To do as well as they did visually against Boston... it's a very Blue Devils show (Bloo needed to up their visual game).
I will be curious to see how they manage with Crown (and BD, Vanguard) musically.
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2 minutes ago, saxfreq1128 said:
Have you just never heard of the ‘60s, or…?
Bloo’s show may be a little unexpected in the drum corps context, but in terms of the actual aesthetic, it’s pretty straightforward 60s stoner acid vibes, no? Idk where “Slurpee tumor” came from but if that’s what your Slurpees are like I beg you to hook me up with your supplier, stat!
I am a Bluecoat. Don't take me for anything but a fair critic.
This show is not like anything they have ever done before, and it tracks closely with the contemporary Blue Devil aesthetic. Pretty sure that I'm not saying anything that is remotely controversial or contrary to fair observation.
On another note, you may know of the Slurpee tumor by another name, "brain freeze" or "ice cream headache".
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That's the most whacked Bloo show to date... by a long shot.
This might be the only real commentary that I will have time to give this year, as life is crazy busy lately.
But jeepers. This program is like a Slurpee tumor immediately following a jalapeño sinus cleansing.
If they cram in some more brass features and a couple more visual impacts near the end... then they very well may take BD on their own terms of gratuitous exhibition of pretentious BS.
I hope my Coats pull it out, but the aesthetics are a bit off the mother ship for me.
Killer execution and imagination though.
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9 hours ago, Jurassic Lancer said:
Thoughts that have crossed my mind since yesterday:
1) Is it any wonder why Bluecoats haven’t announced their show until the last minute until this year?
2) Perhaps some of our esteemed posters would have preferred that Bluecoats, like a few of its peers, stayed home this year rather than inflict the Beatles on the assembled at Indy this year
Ehh... People talkin'... talking 'bout people.
But yes, holding off announcements is a top rate flame retardant.
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Hmm...
Not sure I care about this one all that much. I'm definitely looking forward to some good 'filler' drumcorps this season while things crank up again for the following year.
This just feels so much like the SCV Phantom of the Opera back to back shtick in the late 80's. A sort of... "well let's try that again" sort of move.
Obviously this is not the same thing, but it just has that vibe. And to be honest, they pretty well maxed out as much Beatles as I think I want to see in drumcorps in '19.
Was hoping for something more 'cute' in a different direction. Perhaps they payed big for Beatles rights and they want to make good on the investment?
I will reserve any hard judgment though. My Bluecoats have never failed to surprise me.
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27 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
They don’t care. They’ve bought into the kool aid. They cite this untapped pool of revenue they provide no research to back them with, and duck dodge parry spin thrust when expenses are brought up or say “ it’ll help lower corps fill up” ignoring the fact thousands of brass, guard and percussion members don’t go to those corps now.
so get ready for January 2022 to be right back here, maybe next year they’ll push raising the membership limit
Yep.
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Just putting this out there. I know that some personalities on here are currently in contact with and participating with the corps.
If the leadership of the corps is looking to 'broaden' the idiom with rules changes and new instrument allowances... Please do so by proposing a new division of competitive ensemble and not by proposing divisive changes to the current (albeit stretched) idiom of drum and bugle corps.
The Drum and bugle corps idiom is not broken... nor is it outdated... nor does it need to be disbanded. There are no ethical faults in the existence of instrument exclusive ensembles. We need not force organizations to 'catch up' to our ideals by successfully passing highly divisive radical changes.
Sometimes being innovative means being more clever than all the others with what one has. Anyone can just add more stuff... that's not necessarily innovative or clever. I hope Bloo doesn't fall into that type of self serving and isolating naivete.
And with that... I'm excited to see what Bloo has to bring to the field in 2020. But if my assumptions serve me correctly (and they may not), I find myself unimpressed by what Bloo may have been putting on the 'field' today.
Innovation within an idiom is infinite. If we can't see the possibilities, then we aren't thinking hard enough.
Just some thoughts from an alumnus, fan, supporter and friend.
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13 minutes ago, kdaddy said:
Just saw the tail end of a FB live post... regarding instrumentation, after it failed, Bluecoats countered with an amendment to allow a small ensemble of no more than eight woodwinds. I guess it also failed or will be studied - didn't hear the resolution to that as my feed cut out.
That's unfortunate. The proposal, not the failure.
It's naive... not considering the greater consequences.
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Just now, MUtrumpet said:
Was told it was a secret vote. I’m assuming DCI will give official numbers when they announce like they did for instructor voting
If it's secret ballot then we won't know who supports/opposes it unless voting members make statements. Just would like to know which organizations are on board with this direction. The instructors caucus doesn't really mean much because there is a tactic to voting passage for a proposal in order to deliver a clear defeat in the final vote.
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Anyone have the vote tally? That kinda matters for the future.
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19 minutes ago, Jurassic Lancer said:
Just musing here:
Given the construction and nature of flutes ... what’s the point of them popping to the press box?
Work with me here. Work with me.
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Just now, Continental said:
Blue Devils present "Constantly Risking Absurdity - Part Dos"
Violas at carry. 😇
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2 minutes ago, Poppycock said:
I would love 💕 for that to happen. Also would love ❤️ to see which division draws the most fans.
Ultimately, it's a likely outcome in the long run that there will be a split among organizations over this issue (on top of others). A D&B division will emerge somewhere.
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Just thinking into the future here...
I'm pretty sure that the first time that I see flutes pop to the press box... I will throw up in my mouth a little.
Pretty sure.
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11 minutes ago, garfield said:
I think this is perfectly suited to OC! A natural transition from Soundsport.
I agree. If DCI wants 'inclusion' (again it's a false narrative), there is no reason why they can't essentially have a Field Band division.
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DCI Tour Premier?? 6/28/22
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by cfirwin3
Yeah... I don’t think I'm saying that.
If it SOUNDS safe, then it sounds safe.
The show sounds safe, IMO. Technical passages are exciting, interesting, impressive and fun in the same way that high velocity drill increases value for spectators.