roosevelt
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Posts posted by roosevelt
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Phantom doesn't get to go on last at their own show?
The order for all of the TOC shows is the same.
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Actually I'd expect the Cavies to be all over this voting thing.
They were clearly already primed to do so in TX.
Unless DCI has made significant changes in how the audience poll operates, the link *will* go out -- and voting online will exceed voting from the show
I am sure that their performance on the field had nothing to do with it at all.....
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Obnoxious, maybe...but not arrogant.
Should be more tactful, but after endless BD trashing and ad hominem attacks it's hard to maintain proper decorum. BD alums and fans may have the reputation you describe here on DCP...BUT...I can tell you with confidence that anyone supporting/voicing support for BD are routinely trashed as if they've personally offended said posters' mother(s). Those who engage in this behavior have a reputation among BD alums and fans as intolerant boobs, launching attacks based only on hatred for the success of the corps, and rarely based on rational or other factual data. It's an unfortunate combination...I think BD people are a little weary of it, and come off snarky at times, for which I apologize. I'd hope that people wouldn't "play judge" if they don't take a close look at everyone's show from a judge's perspective. There's no reason to NOT respect any of the top corps...but too many get blinded by "homerism" or bias against particular corps, and we end up with a situation like this. Here's hoping Alex can put on his judging cap and try to appreciate what's going on with EVERYONE'S show before making comments such as he did.
I mostly agree.
BD does get a lot of hate. That is one of the burdens of being what is essentially The Yankees of DCI. It does not help though when many people from the organization thumb their noses at people who question them. I can't tell you how often I have heard someone say "well, 14 championships and 23 brass titles says otherwise" when someone has an opinion that BD has areas of improvement. There is plenty to blame to go around on both sides of the aisle. Being a D-bag in response to someone who is hating in BD is not going to get BD any less hate on here. In reality, it is going to get them even more.
In general, I would say that the homerism on here is pretty bad. We are all guilty of it. Nearly everyone's opinions on here are colored by their preference for one corps and also colored by their dislike of another corps (or more). Personally, I like BD this year. Enjoyable show. I liked last year more because it pushed the envelope and did things that had not been done before, not to mention it was super clean. This year's show is not pushing the envelope IMO. I can enjoy it, but I don't think it is innovative enough to be in the championship discussion. Neither is Crown, but Crown is entertaining enough to be in the discussion for the title; even though I think The Cavaliers are the team to beat as of right now.
In regards to visual demand? BD does stand around quite a bit - especially while playing. How they make up for things is the vocabulary that they exhibit. They are trained and they move very well. Their visual ensemble is also very tight (as always). So, I think they have a lot of depth, but not a lot of difficulty. I think Crown and Cadets have a more difficult book, but it is not being achieved at the same level as BD, so it is a bit of a toss up. If you do more, there are more ticks.... but there is also potential of more achievement. In the end it will come down to who is doing the most AND is clean.
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LOL. So asking someone to back up grossly inaccurate statements is arrogant? Rather than try to explain to Alex the particulars, only to have him dismiss them out of hand (and without any additional research), I'm simply asking him to "play judge" (rather than near-troll) and realize what judges see and give/don't give credit for. It's quite simple, really. From previous discussions with Alex, there is little interest in fact-finding and a lot of interest "IMHO". Opinions grounded in "I don't like _______", no matter who they are, just waste everyone's time. I can deal with taste issues, but holding up a corps (Crown) that has little business being in the same breath with the other (and I'm talking Cavs here) warranted some review. I happen to enjoy Crown's show, but I can confidently say that they're no shining example of tremendous visual demand. That's all.
I don't disagree with your assessment. It is your tone that is the problem. It is possible to be both correct and arrogant. It is possible to be on the right side of the facts and the wrong side of argument because of how you articulated yourself.
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Glad you threw that in to cover your ###. You need a little education in evaluating visual programs. You made the statement "...but nowhere near the visual demand of Cavs\Crown". If you actually had an idea what you're talking about, you'd realize mentioning Cavs and Crown in the same breath visual demand-wise is a pretty ridiculous thought. Cavs/Cadets I could almost swallow, but not Cavs/Crown. Adding Cadets does little to correct your initial error. I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you YET. Might be a "teachable moment" for you to attempt a thoughtful, unbiased review of the top contenders' shows. Doubt it, but it's worth a try. Quiz on Monday, worth 50% of your grade for the summer.
I am sure that you know that there is a perception out there that BD alum and fans are arrogant right? Well, you certainly cleared the bar with plenty of room to spare. Nicely done.
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I think this type of draw makes for a more interesting show dynamic. If I'm a fan of a corps who got the bad end of the draw (Cavaliers), it's easy for me to think, "Cavaliers should be least because they earned it." But if I'm a Crown fan, I'm thinking that going on last just might be the edge that helps them either close the gap or flat out win the show.
Either way, it's likely the best performance will win, and there's nothing too radical about the random draw (i.e. Cavaliers aren't sitting 6th from the end).
I agree 10,000%. People always complain about slotting on here, but when we have a performance order that is jumbled up to help combat judges from slotting then people wig out... or at least they wig out when the order does not favor their corps.
Also, people complain about people not judging the corps, but the name of the corps. However, when we have a corps that gets first in some captions and 5th or 6th in others they complain about judges being all over the place.
Finally, we have folks complain about judges "reading recaps," but if a judge doesn't read a recap and gives the same score or a lower score than that corps got the night before (even if they had a bad night), then people freak out.
I have worked, and judged with a lot of folks that are currently judging in the activity. Most (not all, but most) of them are very capable teachers or designers, and adjudicators. Are there some that are better than others? Absolutely. Are there folks that are great in one caption (field performance), but bad in other captions (ensemble or effect)? You better believe it. The easy thing to do is to blame the judges. To call them stupid, or corrupt, or whatever, but I can tell you that most of them are solid and blaming them every time you don't agree (or lack the perspective) is the easy way out. Unless you were on the field, or in the box, AND are familiar with the sheets (which at least 90% of the folks who post on here are not) then you really don't have the perspective that they have.
Anyways, I am a huge fan of random draws. It helps give corps a better chance at moving around from night to night, and in the end, that is good for the audience and the corps.
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why is it bashing troopers?..just curious
Because of many many many of his previous posts over the last few years.
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I agree, but you will have people that will say "how did so and so get this as a full corps, but this in X caption!! The judges are stupid!!!!".... even though it is possible for a corps to have a great percussion and brass section and a bad guard OR a high ensemble score and a low field score or vice versa. The sheets are wrote specifically to be different.
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I have to say I was most impressed with the corps tonight. I hadn't liked BD show, but tonight they really nailed it. Great improvements. Crown I hadn't liked before,and they sold me tonight. Again, some awesome improvements. Cadets are amazing, and Cavies just blew me away, minus some small issues tonight.
Some weird things happening in the judging tonight.
Phantom beat Bluecoats??
Troopers with almost no GE beat Spirit, Glassmen, Colts and Crossmen?? They shouldn't be beating anyone in that group. Spirit should be winning guard, horns, GE and percussion out of all those groups.
I truly love drum corps, but this judging bullcrud really sucks. I am seriously thinking about taking a couple year hiatus from the activity.
Yeah yeah we get it. You don't like troop, but they are the real deal again this year and again, you feel the need to bash them.
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There is absolutely no way on earth Crown's guard and percussion are 6th place. None at all.
Yes there is. Well at least in percussion. Crown's percussion section is not good. Unmusical and dirty. The guard I thought was good though, and of course they have a great hornline.
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There is absolutely no way on earth Crown's guard and percussion are 6th place. None at all.
Yes there is. Well at least in percussion. Crown's percussion section is not good. Unmusical and dirty. The guard I thought was good though, and of course they have a great hornline.
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....what show were you watching ? LOL
G
I know right?
BD was excellent tonight. I like the show too. I don't think it is a championship show, but it is very good.
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Ok thats true, thus my name here Hook'emCavies, but also keep in mind that in the fan vote Bluecoats also got 6th in the fan vote.
It is also pretty important to point out that a lot of SCV's percussion staff, including Paul Rennick, is from TX and all or nearly all of the brass staff is from TX (The University of Houston).
With that being said regional bias would be an issue pretty much anywhere.
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Yep!
I think the fact that some corps are using synths only amplifies this problem.
Synth stays the same.
Keyboards go flat.
Brass goes sharp.
It can be a bear.
VERY true. I heard a corps run through recently on youtube where it was painful to hear.
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Or to put it another way, perhaps SCV's staff knows what is best for SCV better than folks on DCP.
Agreed 100%
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longer to learn is not the same as harder.
Also, I bet a lot of their sets require minimal direction change, and they are more "checkpoints/subsets" in a bigger move.
One year when I marched, we had a set that was like 32 counts, with 16 subsets. We had a hardcopy of each subset in our binders. Is that 17 sets? or 1 set? The 220 by itself is not impressive, because there are many ways to count things. if you call that 17 sets, it is not harder than if you call it 1 set. You are still marching the same thing.
Go watch one of their shows and you will your answer about step size and direction changes.
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Are you suggesting that drill difficulty is directly proportional to how many sets there are? Is 4 sets of 4 a lot harder than 1 set of 16?
Yes. It takes longer to learn four sets than one. Also, it means you have to change directions and activate more muscles more often.
Do the Cavaliers march and play at bigger step sizes than 8 to 5 this year?
Yes. If I remember what I have seen over the last 20 years that I have seen them, they have done that every year.
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Get a grip
please explain
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I for one commend SCV for putting out the full show even if it was dirty. Its also not a bad strategey to put it all out there sooner than later and then clean clean clean!
Sometimes that is the best plan of action, sometimes it is not. Going slow and making sure you are learning it right helps you get much cleaner, faster down the road. Learning it fast and not learning it the right way could mean you are developing bad habits though which need to be broken with a lot more reps down the road.
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So, you think the Cavaliers and BD members don't have the endurance of the other corps? Really?
At least one corps ran their entire month of spring training in the same Texas heat that you have suggested BD and Cavaliers cannot survive for 12 minutes.
Are you suggesting that all other corps have a show that is as difficult as BD or Cavaliers? I hear that what the cavies performed last night was over 220 pages of drill and that is still with almost a minute left to put out there. Who knows what BD has this year. I am sure though that with the props they are using it takes a lot extra time to learn charts. This is not meant to be a slam on props BTW, just saying it does slow things down.
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Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could very well be wrong), but wasn't Mahler also the composer that formalized concerts, wanted silence between movements, no clapping for solos, etc?
No. You are correct. Romantic Music was all about the program or the libretto.
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Yep -- as I said -- meaningless. DCI really dropped the ball on the voting thing.
As for the Cavies -- I was one of the few people on DCP last year who said (after seeing them in the 3C's show) that the show was going places. Most were saying -- "meh". No need to twist my arm to be a Cavies fan :-) Looking forward to seeing 'Donatello, Michelangelo, Leonardo, Raphael and Friends' tomorrow night!
Just so you know, I am not a cavaliers fan. I am a drum corps fan, so naturally I like Crown since it reminds me of Star. I do like BD too because they play so well. I really did not like cavies for a few years there because of how they played (or didn't play) their horns. Seems like that is on the mend now though.
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Well, after all of the complaining last year about SCV not putting out a complete product at the beginning, all of the "How Dare They!" attitudes, they decided to try and put a full show out at the first show this year. Yeah, it's not as clean, but this show is INSANELY difficult. Probably harder than last year's show, and probably about the level of 2003 in terms of difficulty. It's a really challenging show, but hey, they have TWO MONTHS in which to polish it and get the show down. Like someone else said, the result at Finals is what matters, not the result of Saginaw, TX. It's not like corps are aiming for this show, and will write their whole season off because of this show. Just calm down and relax. If they're struggling with the show in Atlanta, then it's time to worry, but not at the first show of the year.
I agree completely. My rants on this topic have nothing to do with the corps. It is the folks on here who are chastising corps for not being completely done with their show (drill) on June 18th. I don't have a dog in this hunt. I marched Madison a long time ago and worked with a bunch of corps in varying capacities, but none of which are the corps that were obviously incomplete. Now I am just a fan of whoever intrigues me at the time.
I remember last year people giving SCV a ration over not being done and I knew that had tremendous pressure from alumni and the BOD about coming out done at the first show. I think them putting the whole show out there on June 18th was probably a mistake by the reports that I have heard about the level of performance and how the audience is perceiving it, BUT the corps staff and admin likely had a directive from higher up and this is what we have.
I am generally a believer that the corps should do what they think is right for THEIR CORPS. Of course they care about the fans, but they have to put the best interest of their group first. If you don't like what they are doing, don't buy a t-shirt that year. If you don't like them every year, don't watch their shows, but make no mistake about it, their job is to do what they think is best for their corps.
Anyways, I agree with you.
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Actually not -- that vote is pretty much meaningless given the flaws in the system. For all we know the votes mostly came from Illinois
Or for all we know they may have come from Fort Mill, or Australia, or maybe even Saginaw TX.
Also, once you have seen the shows I think you will understand why the fans voted the way that they did.
Are Cavies really 1.4 points better than Crown?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Crown does have a weakness in percussion. Their guard seams fine to me, but their percussion is a liability. Every group that beat the in drums last night has a better percussion section. Cavaliers? Check. BD? Check. SCV? Check. Bluecoats? Check. Cadets? Check. That is a pretty good top five in drums.
As for Guard, it is very possible for them to have a great guard and still finish 6th. All of the groups that beat them out have solid guards. They even beat Bluecoats in that caption who usually have a good guard (even though I understand that they are not as good in that area this year). BD, Phantom, SCV, Cavaliers, & Cadets all have solid guard this year. The judge could have been completely in the right for putting Crown in 6th in guard.
Last year a 6th place corps won drums. It is possible for a corps to have one caption that is outperforming the rest of the ensemble. It is also possible for the opposite.