wilme861
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Posts posted by wilme861
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2 hours ago, CAtenhut said:
You are correct that this would be a great discussion on a new thread because a lot of people could learn a lot from this perspective.
You are correct on almost every level - Yes, we should not care so much about scores and placements and just enjoy how amazing these kids are. And yes, the main reason I want to see Crown place 3rd is because I'm a fan and want to see them improve on last year's placement.
Unfortunately, this is a competitive activity, and while some marching members and anyone associated with these corps might not care about scores and rankings at all, I know for a fact many do. The goal of some are just to improve their placement, scores, and themselves as people or artists or musicians, etc, and have amazing experiences in this activity. But for the corps who are always fighting for the top spots (BD, BC, Crown, and now Boston), I'm pretty sure it does matter. DCI awards gold, silver and bronze, and Crown finished 4th last year, so heck yeah, I believe Crown wants one of those medals this year.
I suggest you create a new thread asking this exact question - I think you'll get a lot of traffic and I can imagine it will get pretty entertaining. 🙂
I do agree this is a competitive activity. I’m a competitive person and when I marched, I definitely wanted to win (I mean who wants to lose come on). But I’m just saying that I think people forget that this isn’t JUST a competitive activity. It’s also an entertainment and educational one at the same time. You hear the kids out there called “performers” a lot more often than “competitors” and I personally just think that’s because all you can do is go out and perform your own show the best you can. Unlike most other activities that involve competition, you can’t directly impact the group you compete against. All you can do is score as high as you can and hope it’s enough to keep you above the other groups.
I completely agree though that the scores and placement can definitely fire up and motivate groups (I’ve definitely been one of those in this situation too) but that’s great for the here and now and can maybe make a great story years down the line. But I’ll ask this question, would you rather be in a 2nd place group after finals that isn’t well received by the fans and forgotten about at the end of the season or be in a 4th place group that is beloved by the fans and discussed in peoples list of favorite ever shows 10 years from now?
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43 minutes ago, DFA1970 said:
The whole drum line moves like nobody this year. And not just moving but playing a difficult book to boot. They are comparable to those lines in 1994 and 96.
What's funny is a week or so ago, I was coming out of a show with a friend and I think for the first time ever, BD's biggest weakness had been their feet. I honestly don't think I've ever said that about a BD corps but at least early season, I was surprised by the fact that they actually had pretty noticeable dirt in their feet and were making just bad mental mistakes. Now saying that, I can almost guarantee that all of it is cleaned up completely (if it hasn't been already since I haven't seen a show in 10+ days now) by finals but just found it ironic.
But yes, their book is crazy and the fact they are achieving it at the level they are is even crazier. And it's not like the other groups don't have great books either but still. Can't wait to get in front of that line again in a lot.
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32 minutes ago, greenland said:
Perhaps it is time to have a DCI finals without the Colts logo dominating the field during finals. It tak. es away from the performing corps, videos, and general scenario. It is almost as though you guys can do your thing, however you will know we are omnipresent. Considering the Crowds and $$ that DCI infuses into Indy we could have one night when the field is ours.
What show has been ruined by the logo? If I was a designer, I would be more worried that the show isn't taking your attention...
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1 hour ago, CAtenhut said:
Crown is in big trouble if they're already in 4th. I don't feel like their show has enough meat in it to push them over Boston and Bluecoats in Indy. I really wanted to see Crown medal again this year, but it's looking bleak.
Random thought, why do you want Crown to medal again this year? What is it about getting 3rd that changes an entire outlook of a season compared to finishing 4th? And would the discussion be the same for 6th or 7th?
I'm not trying to box you in or call you out on anything, I'm actually just curious (probably should have just started a new thread to be honest). To me, the only placements that matter in DCI are 1st at finals (you'll always be known as the champions and get to do an encore run) and 12th place on Semis (congrats on making finals!). Any other placement, just doesn't really matter in the end. And I say that from the perspective of just entertainment and enjoyment of the shows, not organizational success and future because I fully understand that as a corps drops down the rankings and out of finals, their recruitment COULD suffer but that's not guaranteed (look at Colts and Mandarins this year).
I just have always wondered this and finally put the question out there. My assumption is that people just want to see their favorite corps or shows rewarded which makes sense, but I just personally think people put way too much emphasis on that instead of just enjoying it all.
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48 minutes ago, Grandpa Joe said:
The faith hath been losteth.
Really, I'm just not sure how to feel right now. Like nsxanax said, it's hard to stay positive season after season of the same results.
Take away the scores and I don't know many people that are disappointed with Crown this year. I don't let the judges decide for me on what I think of a show. Would I like Crown to win on finals night? Of course! But that's more of a bonus for me. Any other placement at finals literally doesn't matter anyways because you aren't getting that encore run or just title of being the champion. But if placements do matter, I don't know anyone that thinks Crown is leaving the top echelon of DCI anytime soon so why the negativity?
The next show you go to in person, leave before scores are announced and don't check your phone or anything to see the scores. Just discuss with your friends or family about the night and shows and don't check the scores until the next morning or later even. You'll be amazed how much more enjoyment you'll get when the scores are an afterthought. If you haven't done it before, try it.
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6 minutes ago, Den8uml said:
And that percussion score
If Crown had won percussion tonight by 0.1 pts, they would have got a 88.55 overall and still been in 4th. But yep, percussion is holding the corps back alright...
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16 minutes ago, karuna said:
I will say this. These guys left BK and started Broken City. And the results speak for themselves. So they're doing something right!
Broken City actually started up in the 2016 season, which was right in the middle of their BK run. Fun fact: Broken City had medaled in PIW Finals every year (including their first) until this year when they got 4th.
As you said, the results speak for themselves. This Crown staff isn't crap and aren't this huge problem people keep freaking out over. The last show prior to Little Rock, they only lost to Bluecoats in percussion (and reigning Sanford holders) by 0.1 pts. Actually, Crown beat BC in achievement that night but BC had the larger advantage in content. They've generally been hanging out around 0.3-0.4 behind BC so far it seems until Little Rock where it jumped to 0.7. Could have been an off night. Could have been numbers management to fit in Cadets and Cavaliers (who have ridiculously good lines this year). Could have been just that judge wasn't feeling what Crown was putting out.
Bottom line, it DOESN'T MATTER. I can GUARANTEE you, if recaps were kept away all season and only revealed after finals, no one would be freaking out about Crown's percussion because they are good. Really good. But guess what? DCI percussion this year is VERY good top to bottom. You can't say the same about Brass and Guard though. I've heard multiple people tell me WOW Colts' line is one of the cleanest lines out there and I should see them in the lot next show. I doubt Brass or Guard people will tell me the same about those sections though. And that's not a rip on those sections, they are still DCI World Brass and Guard sections so they are definitely not bad. But all I'm saying is the 11th place corps has a percussion section this year that are apparently must see from people I trust and that are very knowledgeable about percussion, some of whom teach these very kids we all go see. So just chill...and enjoy the beauty that is this years DCI percussion battle cause it is crazy!
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Yeah to me, you shouldn't be looking at first scores of the season and comparing those as those dates are changing each year. Go from Finals and work your way back (like 30 days before finals or something) and that can be a better comparison if you're looking at doing a comparison.
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Just now, NewArpege said:
Our color guard coach was a judge at Quarter Finals one year. He knew the scores each corp was most likely to get before going. That’s not saying it’s rigged, but rather he knew what the judging community thought in advance and had hypothesized what each corp would get. Definitely not blind. And definitely not unbiased either.
I'm not a judge and I can do that. If Crown is scoring around a 19.4 in something a day ago, newsflash, they won't be scoring a 18.1 today...
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36 minutes ago, Rocketman said:
YES! Most of todays percussion books (IMO) appear to be an exercise in "how many notes can we possibly squeeze into this show" as opposed to let's write a book that is musical. I find the lack of musicality in todays percussion writing to be very disappointing.
100% disagree honestly. I believe DCI and WGI percussion groups today play the most difficult and musical books they have ever played.
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59 minutes ago, NewArpege said:
Of course that’s what they do! You think that hundreds of judges each summer gently nudge the scores up each night bc they recognize all the minor improvements made each day? Come on. The scores are not that scientific.
I hope you get to chat with a judge sometime. You’re probably going to be surprised by how smart and professional these guys are and yet how “normal” they are at the same time. The problem conspiracy theorists always overlook (this isn’t specific to just DCI judging btw) is that people are usually either way too busy or just way too lazy to do what people accuse them of doing.
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45 minutes ago, craiga said:
Actually, you haven't missed your 5 year prediction...at least not yet. Since there was no DCI in 2020, and 2021 was judged but no scores released, this summer is in fact year 5. You still have time. 😀
Nah I had more faith in it being done last year than this one... They will though at some point. I know tons of people will be going "OMG Boston has won can you believe it?!?!" well yes I can believe it. It won't even surprise me one bit now as this isn't the Boston of 2000s or early 2010s. THAT Boston winning would have shocked me, but THIS Boston, I honestly expect them to win it now.
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26 minutes ago, Triple Forte said:
I am curious to find out the specific reasons people are hyping the Mandarins in 2023? Granted, to date I have only seen and heard Mandarins via the live streams which is not a great indicator but from that perspective I don’t see or hear anything from them that makes me think Wow Mandarins have arrived and are ready to pass the likes of Cadets, Cavies, Phantom and Blue Stars (pls note 3 of those corps are multi time champions).
I mean I have no Ill will towards team Sacramento more power to them but I don’t see it …..yet
None of what I said applies to this year, all about the future
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I remember back in 2017 before the season started, my friend group was having a back and forth over Boston and the new staff (this was the year after they got 12th at finals). I was one of the couple that said Boston will be a top 6 corps this year (2017) east and challenge for the title in the next 3-4 years and win it within 5. I’ve missed out on the 5 year prediction but the rest was to me anyways, I very easy assumption to make. That staff has won it all, not together, but if I remember right each caption has a staff that has won before. If the Colts got a staff next year that has had the same past, they would instantly vault up the standings too because that staff will attract performers who want to work with them.
Roundabout way of saying Boston SHOULD win before Mandarins medal but it’s a LOT easier to medal than it is to win in today’s DCI (thank you BD). I’ve thought Blue Knights and Blue Stars were two groups that were going to be pushing into the top 5 but it hasn’t happened. Mandarins CAN do it though.
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2 hours ago, Richard Lesher said:
I just keep hoping the entire corps are age outs 🙂 Otherwise what are they suggesting????????? 🙂
Probably something like that it's definitely possible to design a show about absinthe without promoting or telling underage people to go drink it...
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5 hours ago, NewArpege said:
Anyone else surprised by BACs and BDs recent scores? Both have great shows, but I don’t think BD is 2 pts ahead level good. I know making assumptions from different competitions isn’t advised, but gosh — each year it’s like this with west coast judging. * done with rant *
Crown beat Boston in their only matchup so far so their higher score at a different show doesn't matter to me until they do it head to head against Crown. If you want another comparison, Boston was roughly 4 pointing Cadets when they were matching up and Crown is roughly 5 up on Cadets now. I don't pay attention to the actual score given at other shows because you just can't compare them directly to scores at a different show that night.
Actually, I see the final scores and immediately forget them honestly. I only really pay attention to the captions (specifically Percussion...) to see how the lines are stacking up, relatively speaking.
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47 minutes ago, dcsnare93 said:
Probably the most intense book they've had since 2013.
The bass line is insane, in their own league this year. The front ensemble has some great moments too.
Knowing the battery will continue to clean in their usual form, if I had to bet right now, I'd put money on BD winning the Sanford.
If I HAD to put money on anyone at this point, I would have to go with the Sanford going to BD. I wouldn’t be betting much though with the other ridiculous lines and talent we have once again this year but Johnson gave this line a ridiculous vehicle to bring that Sanford home this year and so far anyways, those guys are delivering.
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1 hour ago, MBo1974 said:
Perc .1 behind BC is HUGE!
1 hour ago, karuna said:Honestly with such a young line I didn't think that would happen (if it did) 'til the end of the season. So cool to see them putting in the work.
I’m going to sound like a broken record cause I feel like I say this every year now, but percussion is BY FAR the most competitive caption once again and I’m here for it!
I personally think it’s BDs Sanford to lose (that book is just crazy this year) but if you were to tell me Bluecoats, Boston or Crown (maybe even Cavs or Cadets…) would win it, I wouldn’t have an issue with it.
Kudos to all these geniuses in these percussion staffs but more importantly to these kids who just keep bringing it and one upping each other each and every year! I honestly can’t even remember the last time I’ve been to a lot now and didn’t laugh at each line at one point and say to my friends “that was just ridiculous”
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48 minutes ago, KVG_DC said:
I do love Boston’s open set and prop placement. It’s a full field presence created without the props as they start. The compression block with flags up front puts us on the high seas.
Musically the opener seemed seemed a bit off. There is fuzz in the battery But after the opener, things tighten up. It feels like they learnt the opener last? The guard is unreal. They have committed entirely to mastery of weapons and are just doing wildly demanding things. The woman who juggle tosses two rifles to throw one in a spin OVER the soloists to a guy behind… The sea shanties are a fun bop but it feels like they need a transition into them added yet.
There’s a ton of little refinements that can go in to make this show even better and I’m wondering what they have in store.
Friends of mine says Heather Graham has quite a few touches from her HS group sprinkled throughout this show like the juggling of rifles and the throw to another was done by Miamisburg in the 2022 WGI season. As good as a performer as Heather was, she's probably an even better instructor. Honestly, you can probably say that about almost any of the top corps staff members to be real. These top corps have such ridiculous staffs.
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1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
If BDB isn’t at Indy, do Spartans or Gold really win the Open Class title? ($0.02 to Dan Potter. IYKYK).
Yes, can’t win the title if you don’t go to championships
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2 hours ago, WildcatMello said:
Someone on bloos thread commented that bacs brass is much more demanding than crowns...which I think is way off...or am I wrong?
People do this stuff all the time, and I'm not just talking about comparing Brass books, it's every caption. To say anyone's show is MUCH more demanding is just plain opinion and should be treated as such. I've seen in for years now where people go "but my corps guard/brass/percussion/whatever has so much more demand than yours" and guess what, the other group takes the trophy and they get to chill down in 5th or lower.
Someone else said it already but just because this Crown book doesn't have an entire piece that's double tongued like last year did, doesn't mean there isn't demand in the show. I mean just the ballad itself is very demanding. It's amazing how just the very simple basics of a rest with a blind entry on a whole note or something can be demanding but it's always soooo hard to clean.
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Just now, ContraFart said:
I believe we like different aesthetics my friend.
100%. But that's how it should be. If we all liked the same thing, this activity would be dead because everyone would be doing the same thing and then what would we have to talk about on here all day?
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12 minutes ago, ContraFart said:
As much as I love Bluecoats, I do get where you are coming from. You are starting to see very identifiable markers that the Bluecoats like to repeat. I have the same complaint about the Blue Devils. The only difference is that I like the tropes that Bluecoats bring which is why I prefer their shows.
Funny cause I'm the exact opposite. I'd much prefer a BD show any day but plenty of people love what the Bluecoats are doing every year so more power to them. Keep on entertaining. One day I might fall in line.
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Another year, another post of me saying one of these years I WILL enjoy a Bluecoats show like I did in 2015. We'll try again next year...
Btw, percussion can you chill please. Geez
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Carolina Crown 2023
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Crown percussion… LETS GO GUYS!!! Sick run and you all can hang with the best! On to the next…