StuStu
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Posts posted by StuStu
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Pacific Crest was the highlight of the day for me. I was not expecting to be nailed to the wall by them
A real revelation, and I hope a sign of more to come in the future.
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I didn't have the time to slog through the whole thread here, but I am interested to see just what audio signals are bouncing around LOS.
I have a scanner I use to listen to IndyCar drivers at the track. I may bring that along tomorrow and check out what kind of signals I can pick up
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39 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
i'll take an alumni Holy Bass any day of the week!
They're pretty bad-###
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When did DCI first award gold/silver/bronze?
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Last year some Cadet alums started a tradition of lending our old corps jackets to a current member to wear on tour. I've learned that Kelly gave hers to a mellophone for this summer, and a friend will see to it that her jacket continues to be worn in the future.
A nice way to remember a sister we lost too soon, and a reminder that its not about placements. Ultimately drum corps is about people.
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3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
the problem is enforcing it. The assigned judge to catch it would literally have to stand on top of the synth player to see if keyed in time or just pressing one button and standing back.
A fair point. But given that thess shows are judged a couple dozen times over the course of the summer, judges would soon know where and when to look.
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The rules for Indiana indoor percussion (and perhaps WGI, havent read those rules) requires that any sound with "rhythmic intent" be generated or triggered by a performer. I think that's a good balance. Anything verbal has to be played syllable by syllable
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1 minute ago, Fran Haring said:
Would a "good-taste cutoff date" be needed? LOL
For example... Lincoln: In. Kennedy: Maybe too soon.
Suggested Rule of Thumb: If there's likely to be someone in the audience who remembers the event first hand, don't do it.
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I can tell you first hand that the alumni are engaged like never before. Not just giving money and volunteering, but soliciting input and ideas for the organization's future.
Last February YEA held an alumni summit, inviting alumni of all eras to spend the weekend discussing the corps situation, and what steps need to be taken. Out if this came teams of alumni assigned to specific areas, and asked to come up with concrete projects. (I'm personally involved with long range planning.) The alumni are gelling unlike any other time I've seen sin e aging out in '88.
Through this I've been able to spend some time with Vicki, Scott and Doug, and I have every confidence in their capabilities and commitment.
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Cadets 13th in brass.
Ouch.
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That was one of those runs where BD makes it look easy. Really impressive.
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4 minutes ago, MidWAmericanArts said:
Was not looking forward to Bluecoats this year when I heard they were playing the Beatles, but they're doing a fantastic job using this repertoire to create a drum corps production. I usually can't say that about corps that do a production using mostly pop music. I'm still not in love with this show, but they did it so much better than I thought they could.
Yeah, I feel similarly. I'll give them all the credit and respect in the world for their execution.
But for me, it has the feel of a production number from a 1970's variety show.
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1 hour ago, Cappybara said:
Devils advocate here, how do people know whether he knew about GH's crimes (or had serious suspicions/reservations) and never said anything?
Just when I think DCP might finally be a decent place someone comes along and reminds me it is, in fact, a sewer.
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Methinks BD was just shown up by The Columbians. Really enjoyed that, feel so badly for those kids they had to go out on a standstill
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Mark Spitz won 7 gold medals in the 1972 Munich Olympics with times that wouldn't even qualify for the national team in 2019. Yet he remains one of the all-time great Olympians.
The accomplishments of today don't diminish the achievements of the past. Time makes one long continuum that ties us all together.
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I had occasion to chat with a couple of judges a few weeks ago as I shuttled them to and from a show.
Both made the observation that many designers are doing things simply to show they can do them rather than making an artistic statement. The result is actually counterproductive, as the density of "effects" means nothing really stands out. In this regard, less is more.
A great example of how to do it right comes from SCV's ballad in '18. The hit towards the end of "My Body is a Cage" is the single most powerful and emotional moment I've experienced in 35 years of being in and around drum corps. All they did was put their horns up. But that simple move had a devastating impact, swinging the hammer before nailing you to the wall.
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1 hour ago, frachel said:
Do you remember getting this page? I remember working my tail off to get those runs clean (they're actually pretty easy given 2 valves and the key), but don't think it ever went anywhere. I know Bari 1 had em, not sure about mello. Number 61 through 4 measures after 63 are in the final product (though the runs 2 measures before 63 aren't the same) and then it becomes the dissolving company front instead of the 4 measures of runs shown here..
I do remember this. I spent HOURS working ok the mello runs a 4 after 62. Those eventually were cut for the 2d mellos. We did the pinwheels while the 1st mellos played the runs.
Again proving one of the fundamental premises in this thread - the harder the music, the easuer the visual, and verse visa. As true in 2019 as it was in 1987.
####, this is a fun thread.
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1 hour ago, ExPitster said:
Many many thanks for sharing your recollections of that magical show as well as the videos, fascinating to see everything that changed. I was fortunate to see you all early season '87 in NC and was so hyped.
One thing I'm curious about...it sounds like the sops were taken out of the big statement after the follow-the-leader in part 3 (about 8:55 in the video mentioned here). Is that correct, and just curious as to why? That's the one thing I really missed seeing the final product in Madison. Regardless though, I doubt that there's another production that has affected me so deeply (and continues to do so). Cheers to you, sir.
I don't recall that change specifically but I do remember changes in the music to provide different tone colors through different voicings, as well as making changes for clarity. (a/k/a "Mr. Hoseman").
One other point that comes to mind - this show does not have a bunch of 16th note chromatic runs because Aaron Copland didn't write the piece that way.
This piece does feature a ton of interval jumps, which require a great deal of accuracy to play cleanly. As a friend once remarked you can hear the space between the notes. Not as easy as it might first appear.
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17 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:
Yes, I agree with all this. I wasn't trying to say that all non-music majors are better, just that there are excellent non majors who are super talented (even if tenor sax players) and who can contribute once they put in the work. We still see that today, but probably to a lesser degree. There is no doubt that the top 8 to 12 corps today have much more depth.
As for the instruments, I totally agree. I heard Garfield's brass was in bad shape. And in general G bugles back in the day were not made all that well. As someone else noted, when the 3-valve bugles came out in the early 90s it helped, but the brass they play today is far better.
A friend referred to it as "bugle salad". A grab bag of horns of varying age, make and condition. For a good part of the year a few of our contras were on valve-rotor horns, but I think they all had 2 valves by the end of the season.
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13 hours ago, Spatzzz said:
But it isn't just running. Each person has specific counts, leaving and arrival times, pathways and body responsibilities as they move through space. A well choreographed "scatter" isn't really a scatter but a designed and rehearsed design element just as any other drill move. It requires skill both mentally and physically from the marching member just as a drill set from 1988 would for a marcher of that era.
I don't think anyone believes its truly ad libbed.
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11 hours ago, jordsterr said:
We definitely did in the 80's. Not super sophisticated, but it got the job done. We'd start the morning running and then doing crunches and pushups. All things I wish I could do today....
We also kept track of our resting and active heartrate, as well as recovery time. And remmeber being told "go run a lap as fast as you can then set up part four."
It wasn't the 4 to 5 jazz running with body movement you see today, but we were playing the whole time.
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And here's a slightly more smart ### version...
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19 hours ago, jwillis35 said:
As for commenting on these two FANTASTIC shows, below are my thoughts.
- Both shows are incredible and two of the legendary shows in DCI history, even with BD's '17 production being relatively young.
- Both shows were/are the model for the activity at their time. BD's 17 show represents a style that many other corps are trying to copy in today's activity. A few corps have found their own unique version of this style, which I feel really began with BD in 2008. Corps like the Bluecoats, Crown, SCV, Cavaliers, and now Boston seem to have made nice transitions to a unique version of this style. The Bluecoats, to me, have further defined their own style with the way they have used props and electronics, not to mention uniforms, that i believe has even surpassed BD in that regard. This is most noticeable in 2014, 15, 16, and 17. And a real jazz show as well in 2018.
- Both corps perform extremely well (back to BD and Cadets)
- Both shows were fan friendly. BD gets some criticism over the years for not being very fan friendly, but that has not been the case from 2014 and on. The 2017 show rocked the dome in Indy, just as Cadets rocked the house in Madison in 1987 (and so did SCV).
Specific Comments on the Two Shows:
Garfield Cadets 1987
- Cadets brass and field percussion are playing more. The music source material, as you noted, is from one composer and one piece.
- In this era of drum corps (and band) it was typical to write the music first and craft the visual to work with the music. Think of the music being like the movie in a theater, and the visual drill was more like the music soundtrack, but to the music. This was the typical way to develop a show back in the day. This is different today.
- Garfield's music is really arranged like a transcription of the orchestral ballet. Phrases are longer than what we typically hear today, and dramatic builds are more defined and given time to develop.
- Brass line definitely needed endurance to play the book considering the time they had the horns to their faces.
- Battery percussion is playing and marching a lot.
- The responsibility of the pit is solid, but not overwhelming or nearly as diverse in instrumentation as we see today.
- The visual program is very demanding, especially for that time. But Zingali gives us more. It isn't just about demand and velocity. He gives us Art, beauty, perhaps one of the most aesthetically pleasing and polished visual books in DCI History. In addition to this being a terrific music book by Michael Klesch and who ever did percussion (I forget), the visual actually conveys the music as well as the music does. The drill moves when it needs to, pauses when it needs to, picks up velocity at the right moments,. and uses curves, angles, depth and width to paint the music to the field. They are not marching a routine for the sake of doing something hard.
- It should be noted that we do not see many shows today that utilize the 2-step, and even 1-step intervals that you frequently see in this show.
- The company front hit point and the following development of a dissolve (tension) and rebuild of the front (release) combine for one of the great impact moments in DCI History, certainly for the 80s and 90s.
- When I saw this show I don't think I was worried about demand or velocity or how high some kid could play, etc. I walked out of the stadium realizing that I had seen a work of art like never before...and nothing else mattered. Their score and placement did not matter. SCV was just as good. But the artistic quality to Garfield in 1987 is sure to be remembered by any and all who ever saw the show live, and perhaps even on video.
Comments on BD 2017 coming in a little...
One of the main goals in '87 was to be as faithful to the original work as possible.
The initial "draft" of the show was actually closer to the orchestral work, which wasn't working as well because there weren't any drum-corps-esque impact points punctuating the end of each section. Some creative liberties were taken in the rewrites with the hits at the end of parts 1 and 3.
One other thing that I think is exceptional about this show is the melodic percussion writing. It was very cool over the winter to learn new parts in sectionals, then combine with the percussion for the first time, and hear how the battery fit with the horns. Truly genius writing.
And the company front was another amazing thing to be part of. Early on the front disappeared in one count, which was later changed to a push that was crumbling from the ends. My one claim to fame is I ended that move on the 50 - for 8 counts I was the center of the drum corps universe. Marc Sylvester wasn't exactly thrilled. In rehearsal he once said "Dress down to StuStu - and Gawd help us awl."
Here's a video of an early season run. To my knowledge it is the only recording to have surfaced of the early-season show.
And that's another big difference between today and yesteryear - with all the smart phones and go pros, kids today have dozens of videos documenting each step of the way.
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As we talk about evolution, keep in mind that Jeff Saktig and Jon Vanderkolff both marched in the '87 Cadets, and Leon May followed in '88.
The spirit of innovation that drove the '87 Cadets continues to shape DCI today.
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Marching experience of DCP members
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
What years were you at Carmel? I was class of '85, went on to march 27th Lancers and Garfield.