Gantang
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Posts posted by Gantang
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On 7/4/2023 at 10:00 PM, Reggi93 said:
I just take exception with a ton of people seemingly expecting some miracle there instead of just supporting the corps as they turn the ship around.
When the current leadership added girls in 2019, they sold their decision as a way for Madison to tap into another talent pool, which would make them more competitive. They've gone out of their way to spotlight the girls but the corps doesn't seem to have benefitted from the change.
It's my understanding (I don't have empirical proof) that many of the Bleed Green dedicated alumni and supporters held a funeral and buried the Madison Scouts. The new and improved(?) corps with the name of the deceased could have been named anything and had the same result. Instead, the leadership maintained the Madison Scouts' name, which may have insulted hundreds of men.
My hope is that the experiment works because the 2023 madison scouts deserve to know what it feels like to beat corps for the first time.
Since this is a 2023 thread and needs to remain focused on 2023, the question is "Does the corps have the talent, product, and instructors needed to progress competitively?". -
19 hours ago, madisonsmiley said:
The corps isn't hated. I love the corps. I have issues with what's been happening in the front office for more than 15 years.
You must be new to drum corps. The Madison Scouts are NOT hated but the demise of a once powerhouse, fan-favorite, perennial threat to a title, and the epitome of masculine (females can be masculine...it's a vibe), has been a tremendous disappointment for "drum corps" fans while they have been embraced by the new "marching band" fans who have no historical perspective of Madison.
The current kids marching drum corps have never seen the Madison Scouts as anything more than a semi-finalist. That's not the kids; it's leadership. In general, the talent level of the current Madison Scouts wouldn't have been given a spot as late as the 1990s. That's not hate...it's fact. -
8 hours ago, msesq said:
Did I say that your specific comment was vitriolic? No.
You certainly implied it by speaking to it in your Reply to me.
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3 hours ago, msesq said:
. . . or perhaps it’s illustrative of the fact that those of us in Madison elected to enjoy the show rather than engage in DCP vitriol.
Vitriol? You must be one of those who believes that people shouldn't voice their opinions.
Not everyone on DCP lives in Madison. All the other shows have threads. Did no one attend those shows? Can I say that Madison took last in another show now that Pioneer is no longer alive, or is that vitriolic??? -
2 hours ago, TenHut said:
Is there a thread for the July 1 Madison Drums on Parade show? I was surprised I could not find one.
That's illustrative of the non-presence of the Madison Scouts in Madison.
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5 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
Pacific Crest, Academy, and Music City may have something to say about 12-15 place as well.
You get no argument from me, but this thread is specific to Madison. With such a short season, we'll have our answer soon!
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55 minutes ago, Wilder said:
Don’t forget however that winning no longer matters for this Corp.
Only preservation of the ED, and the board. That said, they are
already top tier.
Hey, look at the bright side. In theory, Madison will improve to 14th by default.
SCV is out, so that opens the door for Madison to soar! From what I saw at DOP, this is not a season that will lead to surprises, as happened twenty years ago. The kids are working as hard as they can, and I applaud them for that, but a stock 4-cylinder engine works really hard yet loses to a stock HEMI every time.
Talent matters. Show design matters. Good techs matter. BUT, the thing that matters most is the ability of a leader to admit they're wrong and to pivot in a different direction as needed. -
2 hours ago, DudleytheWest said:
Madison is a feeder corps now. People march there to get experience to move on and up to more competitive corps.
This hogwash that no one cares about scores or placements has to stop. It's ridiculous. Yes, it's not the #1 reason many people chose to march where they march, but no one says, "Oh, I'm fine if we don't make finals. I get the night off." No, they all want to succeed competitively.
I chose a corps that was amongst the top corps, but going there I never thought we would win. We did, and it was great. I wanted to win. We all did. We wanted to beat our rivals. It was great when we did and it sucked when we didn't. The year we won, I would have been thrilled to be 4th, ecstatic to be 3rd, over the moon to be 2nd, and disappointed AF if we were lower than 4th.
I chose THE one corps that I idolized from my first time seeing them. They were an hour's drive from my hometown and we took 5th the year I marched with them. Had I not been given a spot with them (7 years after first seeing them), I would have stayed in my hometown corps made up of 10 to 20-year-olds. I had two other perennial Top 12 corps within a 2 1/2 hour drive, but I couldn't identify with one, and the music the other played was like sandpaper to my brain! 🙂
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On 6/28/2023 at 4:28 PM, Grandpa Joe said:
So my kid is "lower quality" because he was contracted to Madison and Bluecoats, but chose Madison because he didn't want to pay $7,000? I'll be sure to let him know that a keyboard warrior said so.
You are arguing from the specific to the general. Your son may be an outlier in the 2023 Madison Scouts, but it is not the rule. Dating back more than a decade, there has been a decline in the level of talent auditioning for the Scouts. At one point (if my memory serves correctly), Madison had the youngest average age of any Semi-finalist. You can't tell me that high school juniors and seniors are filling the ranks of BD, Blue, BC, CC, etc.
Successful corps, and they do compete for placement and accolades, will GENERALLY attract a higher talent level than lower placing corps.
I applaud your son for making a wise financial decision, but I wonder how he'll look back at his decision if Bluecoats are the last corps to leave the field in Indy.-
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16 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:
It is entirely plausible to not get a full show out.
By July? Then drum corp has gone is the wrong direction. They should be putting out clean shows so that the ticket buyers are getting their money's worth. To be struggling to march the whole show this late is sad.
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On 6/27/2023 at 7:46 AM, TheOneWhoKnows said:
In a perfect world sure. Until the weather doesn’t cooperate and you have no indoor facility to learn drill so you’re forced to work on music only or choreography. Well you learned the choreography, might as well add it in the next time you get outside.
Oh then, you realize this part doesn’t work visually. Needs a rewrite gotta relearn.
These kids learn at a different pace than last year. These kids learn faster than last year. These kids learn slower than last year. These kids need a different demonstration than what we are used to. These staff members are new. These techs are new. Etc etc etc.
So many things happen that would prevent a corps from getting it all out there.
Sorry, but that's bullocks. The shows are shorter, the season starts a month later, and they have computer programs to write changes and give copies to the members.
In the past, Madison had 7 competitions DURING the month of June. Madison appeared in 38 competitions in a season compared to their scheduled 23 for '23. The world has been watered down as much as possible.
But, you mentioned the kids "learn at a different pace." Therein lies the rub. Madison is not attracting top 9 talent. They have been attracting lower-quality members for years, and it just exacerbates itself when they nearly lose to Class A corps at Finals. Semi-finals are now a stretch goal for Madison. It may be time for people to admit that reality and move the corps to Class A. Getting smoked every night is demoralizing.
I HOPE that I'm 100% wrong and that Madison performs on Saturday night.-
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This may be the first significant shoe to drop. And make no mistake, if SCV with their long term financial strength can fail any corps has the potential to follow suit.
Twenty years ago, Hopkins and others sought to transform drum corps into an caste system where the haves would prosper and the have nots would be the window dressing on the way to the main stage. Those transformers voted to increase the number of members (first 150 and now 165) which necessarily meant there would be a need for additional buses to transport members. That additional cost comes in the form or insurance, maintenance, diesel, and drivers (if not volunteers) and perhaps leases.
They voted to add non-traditional drum corps instruments which alienated some long time fans. They added expensive "requirements" in the form of amplification, and elaborate sets, all of which added to the transportation needs and expenses (see buses above). Most DCI corps unveil new "costumes" yearly, which if they are not comped is an huge expense, an a lack of individualized identity.
Then they made their target audience high school marching band and WGI fans, all while flipping the finger at those who just wanted "drum corps". Dan never pushed back as dancing and running overtook music as the defining moments of the shortened shows (and seasons).On the positive side, those "students" who dreamed of marching with SCV can just audition for a different nondescript, cookie cutter, organizations since there's little difference and no loyalty. And the corps will willingly cut someone who was loyal to them for what they regard as better talent.
RIP SCV and DCI(?)-
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On 8/10/2022 at 3:59 PM, henry7184 said:
Opening the gender field up theoretically opens up the talent pool. Before allowing persons of different genders to be members, they were limiting themselves to men only. Now they have access to the full talent pool out there. Will that pay off? Who knows.
They have had access to a full talent pool of males since their inception. Adding girls isn't the answer. Someone posted that scores and placement don't matter because the Scouts are trying to improve. But poor placement isn't a way to garner strong talent. Unless a kid is a die hard Madison fan they will audition elsewhere and take the best chance to win, play o Saturday night, or win a caption. Madison hasn't been "good" for as long as the current age band of eligible marchers have been aware of DCI. There is no automatic talent draw as there was in the past.
As the cream rises, Madison will be left to collect the whey at the bottom of the pool. That means the design staff can't build a high scoring show, the kids will perform more poorly than other corps, and the corps will continue to tread in the 14-17 water.
Vanguard Cadets were 2.656 points behind Madison.
Madison was 11.362 behind Santa Clara.
That means the Madison Scouts are competing with the Vanguard Cadets NOT the Santa Clara Vanguard. Maybe trying to expand the talent pool diluted the essence of being a Madison Scout. Maybe...-
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11 hours ago, ComicJeff2012 said:
They may not break 90 this season, but what a strong move back in the right direction! This is a very talented corps in all sections, and they have a great product that is challenging, entertaining, and modern! I see good things ahead for the Scouts!
With the absence of Spirit, the Scouts will improve one spot from 2019. How is that a strong move back in the right direction? I think a strong case can be made for Boston making a strong move in the right direction, but it seems Madison is treading water. Is the show design really more well-rounded than 2019?
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When was the last time the Madison Scouts scored in the 90s?
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Will all the seasons be 4 weeks long? How does DCI generate income if there are no shows relative to past years? Will kids want to pay the usual fees for less than 2 months of activity?
I feel like this was a treading water year and that things need to return to normal or the activity will die.-
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On 8/7/2021 at 9:55 AM, LabMaster said:
So you mean to keep a group of judges in a bubble and judge only the same grouping of corps over and over? AND corps (andDCI) don’t want ANYONE not from the corps bubble near the corps members, staff, volunteers, unless you have followed their protocols. Another point is there is no need to have the added cost for judges when the point of this year is to get corps on the field and fans in the stands. That’s more than enough reasons enough for no judging. Plus who gives a xxxx there’s no judging. Just sit back, enjoy and pick your favorite. These shows are amazing.
So, you're saying they chose not to judge this season, not that they couldn't because of a worldwide pandemic?
The CDC says that to be exposed you have to be within 6 feet of an infected person for 15 minutes of longer. How could a judge meet that criteria? So, is it the added cost, or COVID? Lastly, are you saying that fans wouldn't filled the stands if the shows were judged?You chose to be offended by a simple question followed by explanations because the no judging doesn't seem logical on its face. Why so defensive? I don't care if they're judged or not I was seeking clarification because my life doesn't revolve are drum corps 12 months a year.
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On 8/5/2021 at 6:12 AM, 84BDsop said:
The pandemic killed the 2020 season entirely. The continuing pandemic made several major corps decide to not have a 2021 season as well BD, SCV, BDB, SCVC, and several others). Corps that DID decide to go out started late due to the continuing pandemic, and venues were questionable in the first place...due to the pandemic.
Thus, DCI decided to go with a shortened exhibition season....due to the pandemic.
So no....it's not non-sequitur at all.
That doesn't explain the INABILITY to judge. They simply chose not to judge, which means the pandemic didn't prohibit judging...DCI did.
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On 8/1/2021 at 7:42 AM, DFA1970 said:
Just in case you didn't know there is a world wide pandemic since 2020.
What does the pandemic have to do with not judging a competition. I just saw that Biles won a Bronze. Did the judges not know there was a worldwide pandemic since 2020.
That's quite a non-sequitur. -
On 7/31/2021 at 7:01 PM, 84BDsop said:
Dude...where have you BEEN for the last 6 months??
Not living and breathing drum corps. I came on here the weekend that touring started.
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59 minutes ago, jthomas666 said:
There's no competition this year. The next time we'll get scores is June of next year.
Thank you. I popped in today because I knew the season started yesterday. I hadn't heard about the non judging.
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1 minute ago, Yorkvillain said:
JuneI must not be getting the joke...
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I see that there were no scores posted from last night's competitions. When will judging start?
With such a short season it seems like corps would want judges' feedback immediately, especially the contenders.-
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1 minute ago, tesmusic said:
You realize there is only 1 winner, right? You made your initial quote to me referring to people wanting to go to a winner, there's only 155 spots in the winner, are then saying that any corps 2 and lower also has the lesser talent? I would beg to differ, consider the Bluecoats list year were not the winner, but I would not go out and say that their members were less talented than the Blue Devils, which is what you're implying.
You took the word "win" too literally. I was using it as a replacement for competitive. And by competitive I mean being in a position to perform on Saturday night. It also means that you aren't "competing" against Open Class corps on Thursday night. You compared BD with BC...do you think any of the girls from either of those corps will be auditioning for a spot in Madison, or do they like "winning"?
Madison Scouts 2023
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Yes, they do. Define "rich"? People at all wealth levels can leave corps money.