dsb2007
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Posts posted by dsb2007
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Isn't that alittle late? By then shouldn't they be planning their tour which will be greatly effected by their status.
Errr...um....NO!
I've said it before as have others. There is this thing called "regional touring status" that applies to both divisions. You mentioned Academy. Uhhh...did you SEE their tour schedule last year? I believe their number of performances were in the teens.
MYTH BUSTER #1: Touring has NOTHING to do with what Division a corps competes in.
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DCI may need to be exclusive to the elite, but the elite don't have to be exclusive to DCI. Look at my post above about soccer. Also, look at high school marching band -- BOA Grand Nationals is the elite, but lots of those bands also participate in numerous other non-BOA circuits/competitions.
Great point, which is why I suggested the idea of starting up smaller community circuits to host corps that are not among the elite. I agree that there is no reason to limit the entire activity to the elite. Certainly give the kids who aspire to be in an elite World or Open class DCI drum corps a place to train. But lets limit DCI TOO the elite. Otherwise, it won't sell.
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I'm spewing nothing, just stating opinions and positing about solutions as the original poster solicited.
You are not providing solutions. You are providing complaints and negativity. Just being honest.
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Maybe that is one of the things that is wrong with DCI. Yes it is suppose to be about being the elite of the Marching Music programs. But in doing so, it created an elitist activity. Drum corps use to be for all. Now, if you have the thousands of dollars needed to participate you can belong.
And that is the way the activity has to be if it is going to profit. It may not be attractive to you but that's the way business works. DCI needs to be exclusive to the elite in this stage of the game or DCI won't sell tickets and merch.
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So there is no disctinction between Div 2 and 3 now? I woudl think they could have just called it Div 1 and 2 and said "there is no DIV 3...everyone smalelr than div 1 is now div 2."
You need to search out the threads upon threads upon threads upon threads of why DCI WISELY made not only the consolidation of Division II/III but the name change as well.
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I'm not a HUGE follower of all things drum corps, but I just noticed that DCP is now calling this the world class instead of junior corps.........did I miss an officail dhance in nomenclature? Isn't it still Div 1, 2, and 3? or are the 3 collectively now referred to as world class, as opposed to junior corps? If so, what does that make DCA? Galaxy class? confused here.............what did I miss?
You missed a LOT!
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It's getting to look more and more like everyone makes Semis!!!
Uhh... no. There are still over 20 corps in World Class and if you saw who was out of semis in 07, you would realize that it's actually getting harder to make semis.
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I believe they will have to start in Open class now if they comeback in 2009...... :(
I think they would have had to anyway...even if they were comeing back for 08.
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Just what we need to help the activity... Weed out some corps... <**>
Actually, he's right. DCI is supposed to be about the elite. It can't be that if there are corps that are no more than an average high school or even in some cases Jr. High school band. That doesn't mean those corps can't exist. I think what it's time for is for some local community circuits to start up for small "little league" (so to speak) type of drum corps to compete on a fair (for them) playing field separate from DCI and let DCI be for the very best. Then, if some of those corps build their corps AND their business to an appropriate level, they can be approved for DCI.
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Long Long LONG LONG LONNNNG overdue!!!!
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Hopefully corps like Spirit of New JersEy get more fans with the combined ticket package. I think eliminating the artificial barrier to becoming "full" is the biggest benefit. Now there's no incentive to be 85 members.
Mmm...now THAT I'm not sure about. I think there will actually be more pressure to become "full" just to keep up with the top corps...and I kind of think that will be a good thing.
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, I did try a few searches before I posted. I want to know what everyone thinks.
I am HOPING that it helps with increasing fan base and financial stability. What are your views?
Yeah, there are already several threads on this. click to page 2 or 3 and you will see several. But yes, I'm with you. I hope it helps with all those things you just mentioned...and I believe it will!
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Agreed.....I think that the new combination of DII and DIII into Open Class should be given some time to see what happens. Personally, I think this move has the potential to raise the fan base and level of competition for both.
Absolutely! But of course, the old school whinning purists will always be near by to tell us all how bad the current state of the activity is. It wouldn't be DCP (Disgruntled Complainer's Planet) if they didn't.
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It's up to the new "Open Class" corps to take the lead in breaking away from the DCI model. Enough of them decide that the time is right for them to take charge of their own destinies and Drum Corps, as we know it, might have a fighting chance for survival.
I hate to be rude but I'm sorry, what you have just said here is absolutely stupid. Open Class corps breaking away from DCI would be suicide. Open Class is in the process of breaking new ground in the activity with the new plans being implimented for the new division....which ARE in fact being implemented BY DCI! Obviously DCI is trying to fix the problem or they wouldn't be wasting their time making the changes. Why don't you wait and see how the changes they are making pan out before spewing your negative garbage about DCI and the demise of DCI Open Class drum corps?
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Maybe it's time for some of us to get together and chip in a few bucks to help raise the money to help with this. What could it be? $10 grand?
Ooooohhh. Not a bad idea!
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Yeah, but did Surf ever win a gold medal? B)
An irrelevant question. Not going to even entertain it.
As for the Raiders, our organization is getting huge. We have plans to bring ourselves up to at least 100 members, and so far they're going perfectly. I've also heard that we will host a home show in the future, but don't hold me to that. My point is, expect to see a lot of change in the coming years.Great! Looking forward to seeing it!
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:spit:
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So essentially, you're saying that there's a business case for it. I can appreciate that you feel this way, but where are the numbers to back that up? On the side of NOT doing it, you have the imperical evidence that of all corps that have had financial troubles since a regional approach was allowed that none have gone that direction. None. Zero.
Magic was forced into Division 2, but still toured fully every season. Gone.
Kiwanis toured fully. Gone.
Troopers toured fully. Came back, never used regional.
Southwind toured fully. Inactive.
Capital Regiment toured fully. Inactive.
What you have just provided here (save Troopers...so far) IS the EVIDENCE that they SHOULD have done it. Again, you are trying to use poor examples of corps who completely failed as evidence that regional touring is NOT a good option because they didn't choose to do it? Where is thelogic in that? You are looking at the whole thing backwards. What you should be doing is looking at the corps you just listed (save Troopers...so far) and saying "shoot, those corps failed...maybe they SHOULD have tried regional touring".
Let me spin this a different way for you.
Magic was forced into Division 2, but still toured fully every season. Gone.
Kiwanis toured fully. Gone.
Southwind toured fully. Inactive.
Capital Regiment toured fully. Inactive.
These corps = bad examples of what a corps should or should not do because they financially failed. Look closely at what they did or did not do and DO THE OPPOSITE!
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If you would read the opening post, you'll see that I'm talking about nationally touring corps that have gone to a regional tour, and that there are none.
OK.
I understand that Academy is at this point a regional/partial whatever corps, and I'm not disputing it. I was wrong; my source said that in 2006 there was no longer a "designation" of a regional corps, just corps that tour regionally. I also know that Academy turned down the opportunity to go to NorCal in 2007 because of money. I'm also aware, quite aware, that their financial progress has been a sensible one for a long, long time.So here's the point. If you want to hold up Academy as some sort of regional gold standard, why hasn't any nationally-touring corps adopted the model put forth by Academy? Why hasn't any corps reverted to this?
Maybe because they haven't figured it out yet. Maybe because they fear losing "status" (even though I think that would be a lame excuse). Maybe because SOME of them (not all of them but the ones who should) don't have enough business sense to do what is right.
Why wouldn't Southwind do a regional touring schedule instead of going inactive if it saves so much money?See my last statement. Though in their case...as I said before...it may be too late.
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So, in other words, you don't agree with the facts, therefore you choose not to accept the comparison.
The bottom line: the national championship broadcast of NCAA sports is set up to promote the very top of the premiere NCAA Division I schools, competing for the title. They are not obligated to mention the tens of thousands of athletes "who worked just as hard" (as we hear here so often) as the Division I teams. The mission of the broadcast is to promote the TOP teams.
As has also been explained here countless times, (and sorry if I'm coming off as being combative -- that it not my intent) ESPN2 doesn't choose what goes on the air. The corps who comprise DCI do.
Exactly. What he ^ said is absolutely 100% correct. So maybe it's time for us to petition some of the corps directors in Open Class to present use of Open Class in the broadcast as an option.
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Well that's just it -- I'm not sure that that option IS available. Not to the degree I am envisioning anyway. The West Coast corps have been able to do this a little bit because they compete against each other for a month. Academy was able to remain regional and still get enough big shows to be competitive because all the big boys were heading out to CA late in the season. Not sure this would have worked out for them so well if the Finals were in Foxboro!!!! How could the Troopers, for example, even consider a regional tour? Unless they based themselves in Indy and only competed in the MW. Otherwise, they just wouldn't get to enough shows. Maybe this would work for SW for a year, but it's a risk as has been described by another poster. Other corps would face similar individual (risky) decisions.
I think the option is there is theory, but in practice I think a better regional infrastructure needs to be in place -- created and encouraged by DCI to cultivate and grow local/regional corps and tours to augment the national tours conducted by the big boys.
btw -- I'm not really disagreeing with you, I just think that the whole environment could be made more hospitable for corps to easily entertain these options. :)
I understand what you are saying and it does make sense.
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And not once have I used Academy as an example. They never went back from a full tour to a regional one. That's why their example isn't applicable AT ALL.
Dude, we addressed this on another thread in the Open Class forum (directed it at you in fact). Academy IS a "regional/partial touring corps" Someone even posted their total number of shows from last year and where they went during the course of the season to prove it. My point is that you SHOULD be using them as an example...even though you aren't.
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OK, and I should have said that I was speaking generally and not really in reference to SW. I don't know which Juniors corps are regional so speaking generally is as "deep" as I can go. :(
I believe this is the correct # of regional/partial touring corps (someone correct me if I make a mistake or leave someone out).
Regional/partial touring corps in World Class
Academy
Pacific Crest
Mandarins
Regional/partial touring corps in World Class
All of them.
And like has been posted, biggest problem with Junior regionals is the number of corps that are (or are not) nearby. Sounds a lot like the DCA regions where corps go hundreds of miles for a show that might not pay the gas bill.The difference between DCI and DCA is that DCI will most likely always have at least SOME full touring corps. Those corps (even if it were eventually only limited to the top 5 in World Class) would be the "headliners" (so to speak) at all shows and as long as DCI can creatively schedule one or two of those at each show, the rest could stay close to home and if they played it right, it may even cause a lot of shows to have more participating corps beause DCI would not have to always chase everyone down to find out who is close enough to show up to a local show.
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Yeah, I agree with what you're saying. My only point of clarification is that what I was saying was that if there already were a viable regional tour option out there, then maybe corps wouldn't get so deep in the first place because they could have fallen back on the limited tour earlier and easier.
That's exactly my point. And that option IS available. Corps just aren't taking advantage of the option while they have the chance and are waiting until it is too late and folding is all they have left.
Currently, they don't really feel they have that option so they eek out every full tour they have until the well runs dry, leaving them in the position you describe. That's all :)Right, and I'm saying that's where I think they are making their mistake.
Jersey Surf
in DCI Open Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by dsb2007
How in Sam's name is asking a simple question on how a corps' show and tell went "flame baiting"? MY are we sensitive around here!
So....I took about 3 months off of reading this site. Remind me in another 3 months NOT to do it again. I forgot how ludicrous people on here are!