Scerpella
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Posts posted by Scerpella
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Define "negatively impact." You mean they make money that doesn't have to go through DCI's bank account first?
It occurs to me the kind of thinking that finds the G7 model persuasive seems to come from all the people who when they hear Dinosaurs become indignant about how DCI is ruining drum corps, point out that DCI is the corps. If money is going through DCI's bank accounts first it is because the directors of the DCI corps who as pointed out are DCI have arranged it to be so.
They have created their own problems (to the detriment of the activity as a whole) and now whine when things dont go as they envisioned.
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If you put yourself in the shoes of a "local show promoter" you'll see how difficult this will be to implement.
For example, let's say I'm a local TEP (
) and I've negotiated with a local school to provide facilities (a stadium and seven schools) for only the cost of custodians, air conditioning, water, electric, and field repair/maintenance. That total tab comes to $15,000. The stadium holds 5000.Let's say based on recent, successful experience I can reasonably assume that I can get 3000 fans in the stands, and I price the seating according to the "center/center" model where the most expensive seats are on the 50 and they cheaper the further away from the 50 and closer down to the field. The average ticket price for the whole stadium is $22, and I expect to fill the center first. If I'm successful I can count on $66,000 in revenue.
I have an $8,000 marketing budget that includes local newspapers, a few radio spots, mass-mailings to past show attendees, a few banners around town, and 5000 bookmarks to hand out during the local July 4th parade (staffed by show volunteers). I have to print programs ($4000), I have to pay a ticketing agency ($2/ticket times 1000 sold - $2000).
I have to pay the "tour coordinator" (DCI or YEA!, for example) a flat $7,500 fee to pay for judges, liaisons, etc.
I buy T-shirts for the stadium crew and staff volunteers ($650).
So far I've spent about $33,000 of my $66,000 expected income, and I watch the weather closely because a rain-out will eliminate 2000 of my 3000 of expected ticket sales (1000 sold pre-show via the internet).
Now I've got $33,000 with which to "negotiate" with corps to attract the most fans to the show. I know I can house 7 corps so, naturally, I start with the top 7 corps and enter "negotiations" to get them to come.
Upon contacting each I find out that 4 of those seven have already set their tour schedule and won't be in my area of the country even if I were able to pay them top dollar. The other three are asking $4000, $5000, and $6000 to attend my show. If I agree I've already spent nearly half of my corps budget, but I proceed.
Of the other 5 "top" acts (with, presumably, the most drawing power) I find that only two have not scheduled a performance on my show date and they each want $3000 to attend my show. So now I've got 5 corps and have agreed to spend $21,000 to host them (average $4,200 each). I've got $12,000 left and need two additional corps to fill my show. So I dip into the last years' 13 to 17 finishers and, after two days of phone calls, I find two corps who can attend my show. They want $3000 and $2000 respectively to attend. I'm down to $3000 "profit" if my estimates hold true. EDIT: I forgot I've got two holes to fill in my lineup, so I contact an Open Class corps and an "All-Age" corps and negotiate a $1500 total for the two of them. Subtracted $1500 from the net below.
I go to work and build my volunteer base, who then goes out and solicits sponsors and program advertisers. We sell $3000 in program ads and get commitments from sponsors totaling $3000. Sponsors want tickets to my net is $2500, and my "cushion" is up to $11,500.
Everything's a go. Show date arrives, corps roll in to town, and pre-show ticket sales have gone as expected (1000 sold pre-show).
Then, the afternoon weather builds and a drizzle begins 3 hours before show time. 60 minutes before step-off, the skies open up and Noah floats by in his boat. A few die hard fans sit through the rain but, in effect, there are no gate sales. After an hour's delay, the show is cancelled.
Now, what do I have as a local drum corps fan who works his butt off to bring a show to town (incidentally, losing about 4 days of productivity at my "real" job)?
$22,000 in pre-show tickets sales income and $5,500 in sponsorships; total $27,500.
And $38,500 in expenses. I'm in the hole nearly $11,500.
Now I, as the show "promoter", am also a master car salesman and a great negotiator (not really, but play along). How would I negotiate with the corps so that I not only cover my expenses but also give myself a small cushion to apply to next years' show?
And don't forget to put yourself in the shoes of the corps directors as you're imagining the negotiation; rain or shine they each have expenses and profit of their own.
Ready, GO! Make this work... I'm all ears (eyes)...
EDIT: And Mr. Zing-a-ling, apply your "$2000 and $10,000" pricing metric to this equation and do the math...
This doesnt really support anyones point here but the question that comes to me after I read this is...
What if modern DCI drum corps did not own $200K in pit equipment and another $100K in amplification equipment, $175K in horns, didnt design new uniforms every year, and didnt lease new busses for 2 1/2 months, and constitute a long caravan of expensive vehicles all needing fuel, and didnt need to have a rolling commisary with food and operators and didnt have "professional" staff instead utilizing people who were doing it for the love of the activity and didnt find it necessary to cross cross the country touring, and didnt compulsively rig the game to make sure all the competitive success stayed concentrated among a handful of groups thus slowly but certainly choking off the activity to all but a few?
What if the delusional power brokers in drum corps had realized years ago that drum corps they way the envision it will NEVER be more than a small niche activity? What if those same people didnt essentially use their drum corps to promote and market their personal skills to the wider marching band world for their own personal financial security? What if the so called stewards of the activity had actually done their jobs?
Perhaps there would be no need for proposals which concentrate more money and power into the hands of amateurs who brought the activity to this rotten pass in the first place?
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Unfortunately all DCA shows are 850+ miles from our location, and the bottom line is we cant afford to do more than two long distance shows in a season. We would very much like to compete more regularly, this is a problem for us. We have just completed our eval with DCI whilst their officials were in town during the Dallas and Denton shows (they had a meeting with our BOD and management team). Next season we will be doing more Texas based DCI shows
We are marching 42 members.
Roger Treacher
Vigilantes
Looking forward to seeing you folks in Minnesota in 2 weeks.
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What I think is funny is that people get all bent out of shape when someone has the gall to notice that certain corps simply connect better emotionally with crowds in certain years than others. The fact it takes all kinds to make the world go round doesnt alter that fact. Simply because someone gets jazzed up about the more subtle nuances of music performance doesnt make all corps equally entertaining.
Phantom Regiment 2008 is THE perfect example of a show that was so over the top emotional and in connecting with the audience that it trumped excellent performances by others that in different years might have been good enough to win. People got so wrapped in the story PR was telling that everything else was secondary.
SO I would say in 2008 at least entertainment and emotional value was in fact credited by the judges.
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You guys have it all wrong... Ditka will win both Open and A classes by 2 and 3 touchdowns respectively. He'll also sweep all captions and win Mini Corps.
Who would win? Ditka or the entire heavenly host of angels against him? Ditka by 10.
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Some very interesting comments here.
Personally I believe the Scouts show as is should be no lower than 7-8. I dont know where some people think there is no demand in this show thats crazy. Its a trap folks fall into when they hear familiar music, that somehow it lacks demand. If you want to talk about a show that lacked demand (not really) look at SCV last year with their reinvention of Appalachian Spring. That was no more "demanding" than this years Scouts selections. Nor were Cadets particularly demanding in 09 either with their West Side Story show. It appears at this point unless the changes affect scoring greatly that the best Madison can hope for this year is 11-12. And to me that is crazy.
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I really like Cadets this year. I just wish there was a little less Jeffrey and baby giggles.
Thats "gee-off" or Jeff with a "G". Geoff Sperling was a late season replacement for us for two seasons.
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What did I mess up (guessing Bridgemen). Just reporting different years and Crossmen were penalized during the regular season but couldn't remember how it affected the rest of their season. My only info was from a Drum Corps News article and can't remember seeing anything else about them. Also remember B-men went to court which was not resolved until Finals was over so maybe I mislead with my comments.
And yes was wierd about thre Northeast corps only a few hours drive from each other. 1978 we were wondering who was going to be hit next.
I dont recall a single member in Scouts in 1978 being asked for proof of age. I will see Scott Stewart this weekend and ask him his recollections.
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I don't disagree with any of this. Blue Stars have a show that was designed to get them into the top-6. Madison has a show that was designed to get back into finals. A good staff can make adjustments, but the basic product is what it is. Different goals for corps at different levels of re-building.
On a side note, I think the discussion on this board would be more civil and productive if we all just agreed to stop using inflammatory language. "Homer," "fan-boy," "kool-aid drinker," etc are just juvenile insults. If you can't make your point in any other way, then maybe you don't have a point worth making.
hmmm, though Ive only seen them once this year, Blue Stars horn book in my mind is quite easy by comparison, as it has been the last two years. Lots of potato notes for low brass. Covering up the execution weaknesses in high brass by writing long sustained notes in the low brass has always to me been kind of a cheat. Yeah I'm a Scouts alum but its been 32 years now and Im not knee jerk about it, their brass line sounded tighter and more mature than anyone elses at Drums On Parade, IMHO. Heck Madisons Horn show LAST year was more difficult than most of the top 12's.
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Thanks for the great review and the kind words Stef! I sure wish I could have bumped into you and the Guapmeister last night. Have a great rest-of-the-summer!
Stef,
If I am the unnamed member of the Kilties you referred to regarding the comment we received from a spectator about our improvement from Middleton to last night, than we had a miscommunication. Given your response to it last night I should have guessed we werent on the same page. Obviously if someone comes up to you and says you have improved dramatically, that is a cause for happiness. We have worked pretty hard since Middleton and I think its paying dividends. Thanks for the nice comments.
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AMEN to Boston - they were the ONLY corps at Carmel Tuesday night to try to even come close to a power chord from the past and they had to come up to the sideline packed titghtly to pull it off. I loved it. I know volume is not everything but every once in a while, just every so often, you got hear a hit like Spirit in 79/80 on Georgia, or even Madison back in the day. You have to admit IT IS NOT THE SAME. 60 versus 80 brass and they can;t match the volume timbre like in the past. Is it bad today no not really but it is not Drum and Bugle Corps sound.
Batteries due to the heads they use also do not produce the amount of sound they did prior to their usage, and that contributed greatly to the sound we heard and felt on the field.
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Well, Jim is a huge proponent of ensuring that the pieces that are selected for performance by the corps are given as much musical credit as possible. In case you didn't notice this year, the men are playing "Rhapsody in Blue" not "Aire on themes from Rhapsody in Blue." Obviously you can't play 15 minutes of music in 5 minutes of show, but you have to admit, it's a much more faithful interpretation than a lot of selections in modern drum corps. No one looked at it and went "Which section can we butcher to make a trumpet feature that is harder than the orginal music?"
Interestingly enough, if you had seen Madison in 1974 and 1975 you would have seen much the same going on for their early season versions of both Slaughter and Rhapsody. They got sliced and diced as the season went on ostensibly for maximum effect. The funny thing is given the current activitys better marching playing and equipment, Scouts today could play the 1975 version pretty faithfully and it would probably be as effective now as it was then.
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Yeah. Madison's weak link is clearly their creative staff.
/sarcasm
C'mon. Madison is a virtual lock into finals. The design team could have created a dream Madison show that this group couldn't have possibly performed. Would that have been better?
My point is that IMO design and design team have disproportionate effect on scoring and placing in DCI. Madison's team cannot be considered a premier DCI design team (for purposes of my argument) at this point because they have been out of the game so long.
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Absolutely.
USA and Canada.
And California.
What about US territories (US Virgin Islands, Samoa, and Puerto Rico)?
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If that were the case, Scouts would probably be in the Top 5 with their design team
Except that this team has not been prominent for some time now.
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What is going on with percussion? They are down vs. last year and down 1 full point from a few weeks ago. If percussion started scoring, 80's would have already been here. Anyone know why there scores keep going down? You would think at a minimum they would be getting a bit better but they are going the opposite way of the rest of the Corps. Is the book to hard?
Its especially strange since their drumline looked in the spring to be quite improved. Personally I can't say I know why anything is what it is in DCI these days. I didnt see Madison as down to Cadets by so much at Drums On Parade 3 weeks ago. The hornline was solid and mature and frankly sounded better than anyones that night. Percussion was very solid and the guard was clearly improved. For that matter I just watched 2008 Legacy videos and I have no idea of the difference from about 4-12. They all performed superbly, marched superbly and communicated their shows. About the ONLY thing I was sure of in 2008 was that the right corps (Phantom) won it.
This always brings me back to my usual rant that who wins and loses now appears to be decided by who wrote your show, and how you perform it secondarily.
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Great venue for drum corps if a little bouncy for sound. Performers will have to crank their horns up an additional 15 degrees to reach that high box.
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the only way it ever can or will....$$$$$$$$$$$$$
complaining, alone, won't do it.
but, dcp is a nice outlet for getting to voice your concerns.
What else is a discussion forum for? Are you implying that the opinions here though not affecting the direction of drum corps, actually have an effect somewhere else?
Its all opinions.
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I updated the first post based on this list of competitors from the DCA website... Still missing reps from a couple corps that don't have it posted on their websites, so feel free to fill me in!
What does GLAD refer to?
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Held accountable !?!?!?!?! ...................... In 81' we had one staff guy that would throw rocks at ya ! ........
Bill
Strachan!
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It is very interesting to me that the spread from Madison to the top (11 to 1) is only 5.2 points,..............
It will be even more interesting to see if this clump experiences any movement or place changing. The law of averages says yes. The law of DCI typically says no. After this weekend, the placements historically tend to start to settle into stone.
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Hey folks,
we are jumping on the bandwagon here. please consider also supporting the kilties when you cast your vote in the chase community giving program. I was unaware you get 20 votes so now I am off to vote for alla youse.
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Everyone that is over analyzing, picking apart, and thinking they know whats up, need to quit your jobs and go do it your way. There are tons of Corps that would love to have you. Their job is hard, and it is only June. Lets not critique that auesome show I saw Sat. night. Live! You all know its early, so let them do there jobs. They have all done this before, just not with our Corps. Hell that spin move in Slaughter is not even in the show yet, what about putting the end of Brians Song somewhere? You know, that tag ending thing. All kinds of stuff still to go with this show. Dont you all for one minute think things arent a coming. This is pretty serious for Cris and Company, lets let them get it done. No tone intended for all you arm chair staff members. Cant wait for the next show- LIVE!
Jason
You know all the speculation and "advice" from the brothers is done with love for the organization. We all have earned our right to opine and we all try in our own way to support the corps. Ultimately Jason this is DCP, and we are always being told it is like pee in the ocean of the actual drum corps community. I dont think anyone begrudges anyone else their opinion. Its human nature man, we live to talk about stuff.
As for brother Jerry, he gave 10 years to the corps as a marcher and more in other capacities, I'm always interested in what he has to say.
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Vince, you are very perceptive and believe you've nailed it. I sat there Friday night just below the box on the 50 and probably was a little loud when I verbalized, "the voicing is all wrong"!!! Of course one may conclude that my brain is tattooed with the memory of playing Slaughter in 75', but the upper voice "brilliance" across the board seems entirely missing (and this has nothing to do with the key of G)! My observation Friday night was that the dominant voices throughout Slaughter was mid-range, mid-range and more mid-range. Again, I think you completely nailed it on your observation and I walked away feeling that if they don't address the issue, it leaves Slaughter feeling uncharacteristically "flat". And, this has nothing to do with volume but rather voicing. If they're wanting to get the reaction in which the "original" score brought about, I feel this needs to be addressed, otherwise I believe this version of Slaughter will rise far below whats anticipated.....to me, it certainly sounds "flat". As a side note, I tried discussing this topic with Chris Komnick after the show. I don't know if I completely verbalized this successfully, but he said something to the effect that "they're" experimenting with a few things and something about adding some upper trumpets (I take it that this means key/register). I couldn't agree more, that the upper voicing's of Slaughter are so crucial to pulling off the tune, that if not done correctly, it dies.....but remember something else....we also originally used french horns!
I agree with both of your observations Vince and Jerry. I think one think characteristic of the Star sound vs. the Madison sound is control. Clearly Prime is trying the bridge that gulf. You got the impression in 75 the corps was able to completely let loose and then bring it under control very quickly. Ultimately it goes back to how hornlines were particularly Madison where we were taught that we owned certain decibel levels and it was our duty to push everything including our spleens thru the horns to achieve it. What we remember from 75 is the screaming leads, the swinging baritones, the barking contras and the soaring French Horns. We were once treated to a speech by Ray on the concept of "subtlety". Long story short, to Ray subtlety was 5 200 pounders jumping on someone and stomping him until he was flat and then lighting him on fire and attacking him with hatchets and pickaxes to make sure he got the message. That may not be an exact transcription of the speech since I cleaned it up for a family forum.
Truthfully its not fair to compare 75 Slaughter (which is the Finals version we have worn out turntables playing thousands of times since then) to 2010 Slaughter in June. At some point I am confident that Prime, Mason, Kominck et al, are going to let loose the dogs and what transpires will be one for the books.
Racine DCA Show; Brief Review
in DCA All-Age Corps and Alumni Corps Show & Event Reviews
Posted · Edited by Scerpella
Our official numbers are 41 horns, 14 battery (1 snare missing due to a family issue) 20 guard 7 front ensemble