BRASSO
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Posts posted by BRASSO
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I hate to be the bummer, but there was no way in Gods great earth tat Spirit was better than Glassmen or Colts. Those scores are really bad. I think they have a decent show that could be great, but right now it is really dirty and should not be scoring ahead of those two. The crowd was dumbfounded on that one. Not slamming Spirit, just no way that they were better last night. We will see if that score holds tonight, if it does, congrats, but I think this was one of those judging errors like having Bluecoats beat Cavies and Cadets last year. It happenend once and never again. The only difference is that Spirit could beat both Colts and Gmen again. Just a bizarre score. Quoted from a Spirit parent, " are you kidding me".
I wasn't there ( I assume you were ).. What particular scoring caption and which judge (s) had a " bizarre " score in your view last night ?
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Was there ANY doubt as to the results of this poll? The Cadets prior to 2004 were good.
No. But then again, if we asked people the very same timetable comparison with the Blue Devils and Madison Scouts, ( just for instance ) my gut tells me we'd have pretty much the same results with these Corps ( liking more of their shows prior to years 2004, better than 2004 years onward )
It's also an unfair comparison as we are comparing 3 years ( some havn't even seen this years shows, but voted anyway ) with 30 previous years ( many here never saw lots of them live either, it's true). But, it's still more likely that in roughly 30 years of performances considered it's much more likely most people would naturally find more likeable shows in that 30 year timetable span because of the sheer numbers available from which to choose than in the 3.5 years of sampling we have from 2004 on.
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From what I've heard, the Colts' show tonight was a complete fluke. I talked to a friend of mine from color guard and she said they had a TERRIBLE show.
As oftentimes is the case, a performer or two thinks their own particular performance was terrible, but the rest of the Corps felt they were " on ".
Sometimes it's sections too...... Drums think they were crap that night, but Brass, Guard think for their section it was a great performance.
And who knows what the judges are going to think. Oftentimes there is a real disconnect between them and the Corps ( and audience ) on a Corps overall performance.
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Maybe lost a bit in the smattering of scores the last few days was SPIRIT finishing ahead of the GLASSMEN last night.
This was the first time in 4 years ( I believe ) that SPIRIT has beaten the GLASSMEN.
' Good for SPIRIT !........ and it's good to see some shifting in placements from time to time with these Corps
And this could likewise prove to me a terrific motivator for the GLASSMEN too and especially tonite for them to perhaps turn the tables on SPIRIT.
Nothing like some good healthy competition to get these Corps juices flowing ( and ours!)
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The real winner tonight was the Bluestars. This solidly puts them in finals consideration. Right now we have Glassmen, Spirit, Blue Stars, Colts and Blue Knights all basically tied for probably 9th place. That means one of these corps has to miss finals. Academy may likely be in there as well
Unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time that Spirit has beaten the Glassmen in 4 years
July 8th, 2004 to be exact
So, because of this change in placements, from my perspective anyway, the big winner tonite was.......
Spirit.
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They are the one corps in World Class that has yet to perform and they will debut their show this Saturday. Has anyone seen any run-throughs, any ideas on what we can expect from them this year? Last year, they challenged for that coveted 12th place spot and just barely missed by one point to Spirit of JSU. Where does everyone think they will fit in this year?
Good question. Until they hit the field in competition, it's anybody's guess.
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I don't see many people calling everything they do innovative. Maybe you should give up your crusade in making sure everyone knows The Cadets suck (your words, not mine). They no longer appeal to you. Honestly, as much hype as the Scouts have gotten this preseason, I saw their show online the other day and it was a yawner for me. I understand not everyone will share my feelings there, and let's face it, many will cheer for them simply because of who they are, but in the end, it is just my opinion. The big difference is, I don't see any Cadets fans in the Madison threads talking about how much they suck. It's not always about you.
Cadets fans going onto the Madison Scouts thread to tell them how much they suck, would be akin to New York Yankees fans going onto the Seattle Mariners baseball website to tell them how much they think their team sucks.
What would be the point of that ?
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Thanks for the review - glad to hear that the Blue Stars have beefed up their program/design this year.
This reviewer would know about Blue Stars staffing qualities too.
He's a former staff member of the Blue Stars.
Nice review.
It'll be interesting to see if his prediction that Blue Stars will finish ahead of the Blue Knights at Finals comes to fruition !
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I don't understand this post. Maybe I missed something. There is no brass judge up in the booth judging just the hornline. That wouldn't make much sense. And of course a brass judge can hear mistakes on the field we can't hear. They can be right in front of a member. How can they not hear it? Just depends on where the judge is standing. And throughout the year, the performance judges will learn where to be on the field so they can hear certain musical passages. Maybe you are talking about the music ensemble judge? But it wouldn't make much sense for the music ensemble judge to be on the field. They need to be in the booth so they can hear the full ensemble. Right now there isn't even a brass performance judge so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I should have been more specific when I referred to " brass judge ". I understand that currently there is no " Brass judge " per se, and Brass is judged by the " Music Ensemble judge ".
But my central point was this :
When a Corps ( any Corps ) plays a soft ballad, particularly played backfield and away from the stands, that it is humanely impossible for a judge up in a booth
to determine if fracs were made, a cross tempo took place between sections, or even if the ballad was played flawlessly in terms of tone quality, pitch, modulation, starts, releases , etc.
Again, these judges have enormous professional training and experience. Which I respect. I really do. But their training did not allow their hearing distance capacity to be extended because of this training and experience. When a judge is trying to evaluate a softly played ballad, it can not be effectively evaluated ( in my opinion ) up in the stands, where usually crowd noise naturally would interfere with that judge's ability to hear such softly played portions of ballads, played backfield ,and away from the judge.
Just my opinion. Others are certainly free to disagee. And to believe that a judge can hear a really soft baritone section passage played backfield, and from upwards of 100 yards away in a noise filled booth, and know if all the starts and releases made in the bari line were done in unison or not in that musical passage, and what that tone quality was like in that barely audible brass movement in that critically important portion of the show.
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I would LOVE to see the Cadets do a Latin show...or a jazz show...
REAL cutting edge byThe Cadets would be a Latin themed show with narration in Spanish.
Seriously.... Many folks are saying that they don't understand the show as it is, even when spoken in English..
If the narration was in Spanish, what's the difference ? And it has the opportunity to play well in places like San Antonio and other regions on tour too where te show might get a better audience reception than it currently is.
A Latin themed show with narration in Spanish.
It's only a matter of time anyway it seems to me.
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Thoughts so far - this has been an interesting drum corps season so far. Lots of build up, lots of anticipation and yet there seems to be a lack of excitement in the air. Problems with locations, weather and gas prices is causing more problems that usual. 2007 was a good year especially for the corps placing 4th - 7th. Maybe it is because it is so early in the season (actually late compared to previous years), maybe it is because there are fewer judges right now but whatever the reason I am looking forward to an exciting July and August :)
It's early in the season. West Coast Corps have not met up yet with the others. The scores are pretty meaningless right now. ( brass judges can't properly judge a backfield played soft ballad from 100 yards away in the stands with surrounding crowd noise interference, etc ). I expect that once the field judges return, and we have more of these corps from all over going at it in Regionals, things will become more exciting. The competition for 11th and 12th spot in Finals promises to be exciting and VERY close among quite a number of corps that currently seem bunched up.
July and August look to be very exciting.
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Who cares if it is or isn't cutting edge. Maybe they should play something Latin.
REAL cutting edge will be when the naration will be in Latin.
4 years ? 6 ?
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Man, this argument comes around probably 10 times a year or something and goes exactly like this thread every time.
Look, if drum corps is really "all about the kids," then let's assure there's lots and lots of stable corps all over the country for "the kids" we're supposed to be about. Let's find ways to share resources responsibly so we can do something for all these "kids" we're talking about. Maybe it's time we have lots more staff sharing. Maybe big time designers have to do some pro bono work with other corps. Maybe top tier directors have to serve on the board of an open class corps in an advisory capacity.
In other words, instead of constantly arguing about why something won't work (and tearing people and organizations down in the process), let's find something that WILL work.
You know, for the kids.
Big fan of the Troopers here. Noticed you marched there in the mid 80's.
When the Troopers were on top in the mid to late 60's, I don't recall them wanting to share their staff, their resources, with anyone. They were the best funded, best fed , best run Corps in all America. They spent more on travel, instruction, uniforms, than anyone else. Their accommodation demands on hosting sites were exacting and demanding. When they won American Legion and VFW National Championships, Jim Jones their Director ( great guy that he was ) did not want to " share" those winnnings. He felt his Corps deserved the most, because they worked the hardest and the most intelligently. And he even wanted more of the Veterans Organizations share of the gate receipts. So much so, that he organized with a handful of other " Elite Corps " at the time, a revolt to leave these organizations behind and start what was to become DCI. It was driven by money, and the Troopers wanted more of it. ( nothing wrong with this ).
But the Troopers ultimately found that their annual themed shows based upon early Americana, Patriotism, with a military bearing and uniform, etc that was perfectly suited for competition in Veteran's organizations sanctioned national competition. became passe in the new environment of DCI. So they went slowly downhill competitively, and ultimately fell out of the top 12 awhile back, and have struggled to return.
This is why I find it ironic now, that folks in Corps like the Troopers ( again, whom I respect and love ) are now asking for the Corps at the top to " share their resources " with those below. When their history tells us unequivocably that when they were on top, they had no interest at all in wanting to share resources with those down around 17- 100 in placement. Maybe in hindsight, a Corps like the Troopers should have stayed with the Veterans organizations and worked with new leaders in those organizations that no doubt would have emerged and might have been willing to share the gate receipts more with the Troopers.
The Troopers" made their own bed." Let them lie in it. And like other Corps had to do when the Troopers were on top..... let them pay for that " bedding " themselves. The last thing Jim Jones ( God Bless him ) would ever want to hear, is a former Corps member from the Troopers asking now for a welfare handout program and DCI mandated pro bono work, and " shared resources " from the perennially successful Corps now at the top in the activity..
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Have you heard his material? I mean, more than some of it? Honestly, you couldn't be more wrong...
Listen. I'm sure you mean well, ( and yes, I'm familiar with his comedic schtick, heard it lots of times), but I'm leaving this thread now, as it's getting
crazier by the minute when people are now trying to tell me that George Carlin wanted me and you...... " to be kind to our fellow Man".
Ok.... you can believe that about GC. No problemo. Adios.
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Eh, that quote is slightly taken out of context. One must also remember that in addition to George's darker material at the turn of the century, he was still always about being kind to your fellow man, and all this. I think a good quote from him, a RECENT one at that is, "Scratch a cynic and you'll find a disappointed idealist."
Oh please. Say what we will of Carlin ( both good and bad ), but even he'd barf if he heard anybody think he wanted you..... " to be kind to your fellow Man ". He'd swallow that cocaine or grass of his whole if he heard that.
Carlin could be about ..... " Kindness to your fellow Man " ?..... now, THAT's funny!!. Even George if he was with us would get a laugh on that.
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I fully agree. Some people are basing Cadets' success on crowd reaction. Sure, it can play a part, but it's not the single point of failure.
Good point. One of the evolutionary transformations we have seen over the years is the definition of what constitutes superior ( or subpar ) " General Effect "
The Cadets can very easily attain superior General Effect scores, as " connecting with an audience " is of little to no consequence in that caption now compared to earlier era's. ( not making a judgment observation here one way or the other, just pointing out the clear change in how " General Effect" is now evaluated)
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I totally agree with you. I hated the show. I was at Toledo sitting right in the middle of the stands, and everyone around me was talking about their show when it was over. Most felt that the show is note enjoyable for many reasons. One of my friends is a Cadet lover. He has followed them for years, wears the Cadet shirts, etc. He said this was the first Cadet show in history that he will not stand up for. Last year I hated the voice overs, but loved their hornline, drumline, and drill. This year I do not enjoy any of the show. I couldn't sing one melody from their show after seeing it. There were not the typical wow moments like they usually have. The crowd sat on thier hands during this show.
I predict them to finish 4th or 5th this year.
Based on some of the reactions from audiences so far.... ie mostly " did not care for it "...... " was confused "..... " most of the crowd sat on their hands "..... " no melody, etc ".......
Sounds like we just might have another top scoring Cadets show with the judges.... especially in the General Effect Captions.
Anybody disagree ?
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Carlin, at times, was a genius.
True. He had an incisive social commentary and his observations of behavior was intuitively keen, and he was devilishly funny. He also could be completely callous, self absorbed, and mean spirited.... to wit :
" I have no sympathies for Human Beings whatsoever. None. And no matter what kinds of problems Humans are facing,
whether it's natural or Man made, I always hope it gets worse".
I could be just as callous and say good riddance to old George now that he's returned to dirt and lets find something else in Drum Corps " that is very disturbing"
But instead I'll simply offer up... may God Rest his Soul.
And just who are " The Blueberries " Corps anyway ?
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Censorship in this funny is very funny. The term "Japs" was not even used in a derogatory manner, it was a hyperbolic statement used to prove a point. Language is a complex animal, but I hope people know a hyperbole when they read one :-\. That being said, I have a question. Why is it that people say "the N word" instead of just saying "######". It doesn't make any sense. Everyone knows what "N" is the first letter of in this context, you implied quite well WHAT that "N" is supposed to represent, and we're all adults here, why the circumvention? Can people read "the N word" but as soon as you actually spell it out they start foaming at the mouth and beating the ground bones, grunting and spitting like the beginning of "2001"?
As the late great George Carlin said about 15 years ago in response to political correctness in this country, "There is nothing wrong with words in and of themselves, it's the context. To some that may seem obvious, but it seems people must honestly still lack basic reading comprehension skills if the word "Jap" used in an a dry and academic context warrants a thread being closed.
You ask " why is it that people say " the N word instead of just saying "######" and why " actually spelling it out people start foaming at the mouth " with that ?
I can't believe anyone would seriously ask this question. So I'll choose not to offer up an answer to the question.
George Carlin was a gifted comedian. He was also a drug addict and a very vulgar man. But to each his own.
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There's actually more parity in MLB than in many many years. Tampa is a game out of first, Minnesota is a half game out, Florida is two games out. It's been proven many times in recent years that you can spend under $100M on salary in baseball and be VERY competitive, win your division, make the post-season, and even win the World Series.
Then again, why we're even trying to make a comparison to drum corps is beyond me. One consists of billionaire owners and millionaire players that generates billions of dollars in revenue world wide. The other? Well, there you go.
Exactly.
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Just to set the record straight on the MLB analogy:
Having a large team payroll does not guarantee success in major league baseball. That's a myth and not borne out by the facts.
One look at the teams that have participated in the World Series the last 6 years, and those teams are a combination of high payroll teams and lower to mid level team payroll teams.
Only teams at the very bottom of the team payroll scale ( bottom 3 or 4 ) in MLB seemingly exclude themselves right from the get go from getting to the playoffs and ultimately to the World Series that year.
Florida Marlins, Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies, Minnesota Twins, and several other MLB teams have been quite successful in both playoffs and World Series play and were not at the top 50% in terms of team payroll when they reached success in that year.
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I haven't seen full shows from anyone just yet (next week I'll have a better idea) BUT going off of what I've heard and seen thus far, the top guards are:
Cavaliers
Blue Devils
Santa Clara
Blue Stars
Colts
Boston
Cadets
Phantom
Crown
Apparently Bluecoats are having a rough go of it thus far, but I'm sure they will get it together - they always do! And I'm anxious to see the Blue KNights next week.
I don't know a thing about how Guards are scored, but I 'd be shocked if the Cadets fall out of the top 6 in Guard scores come the Finals. I can't remember the last time The Cadets guard did not finish in the top 6 at Finals.
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I do wonder sometimes if the 5 judge panel can properly evaluate corps without field judges giving input from down on the field.
For instance, I'll acknowledge that brass judges have the training, ear, experience, et to judge brass lines appropriately.
That said, nothing in a brass judge's training, experience, allows him or her to properly hear ( for instance ) a soft ballad being played backfield, when that judge may be sitting at great distance up in a booth. The booth vantage point naturally is a) distant b) has crowd noise interference.
Can a brass judge hear ( lets say ) fracs in the brass line, or cross tempo playing, etc in that soft ballad ?
In my opinion... No...... It is humanely impossible. They are simply too far away in distance to hear such errors, or great playing in unison for that matter.
Nothing against these brass judges. I respect them. I really do. But their years of professional training and experience did not allow their hearing to be extended in distance.
Just my 2 cents worh anyway.
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eh. i knew someone was going to jump on that.
imo, the perception of that word as racist needs to be curtailed. it's a shortening of the word "japanese". that's it. it's not like "the w word" for hispanics where it's specifically attacking something. it's just a shorter version of a completely proper word.
Ask any members of the Asian- American Community if the term " the Japs" in the phrase '"The Japs attacked Pearl Harbour" is offensive. I think you'll find that while " the Japs " is a" proper word " in your vocabulary, it is most definately considered a pjorative and racist word useage in many quarters of the Asian- American community.
That's the " SPIRIT " !
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
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True. Maybe in some of the competitions, the point differential separation between these 2 Corps should have been LARGER possibly too, rather than " slightly better " scores.
Just sayin'