BRASSO
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Posts posted by BRASSO
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Last year, the Blue Devils scored a 75.90 at their first show of the season, and eventually became champions at finals. Pioneer scored a 73.325 at Quarterfinals last year, their last show of the season, and finished last. This is a point differential of 2.575. Now, imagine you have a time machine and can put the beginning of season Blue Devils at the same show as the end of season Pioneer. Would the point differential between the two even be close to 2.575? What do you think the differential would be?
No. A score a Corps receives is relative to themselves competing that day among other Corps competing in that same competition only.
Thus, a score a Corps receives on the same day, but at another competition, or at another time frame ( minutes, days or months ) is meanigless.
This is why sometimes we see frustrations develop because we'll see 2 Corps receive similar scores on the same day, but at different shows. We then find that when these 2 Corps go head to head with other Corps, that one of the Corps scores drop. And don't understand why that would be.
Good example : a Corps scores high in a prelim show and qualifies for the Finals at one of the last spots. They then go out and perform perhaps BETTER in the Finals, but their score drops... and sometimes precipitously. How can that be, some think ? Easy. The Corps in the Finals were a different overall mix than in the prelims. And since the competition mix in the Finals overall in quality was much better than in the Semi's mix, they naturally scored lower among THAT mix of Corps.
If we had a time machine and put a first show Blue Devils up against an August Pioneer Corps that difference in score would be very dramatic. The reason scores are low early in the year, is to allow growth to be shown in scores as the season develops. If however, we put the 2 Corps head to head in a single competition, the gap spread would still be rather large. That's because a first show Blue Devils Corps is still significantly better than a late season Pioneer Corps in terms of demand, execution, talent, performance, etc.
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The judging will go back to the system they have used for several years. The guard will have their own specific judge.
Thanks.
It'll be interesting to see what happens when they return soon to the normal 8 judge lineup, Guards are additionally judged in caption form, and field judges have a chance to see up close how the corps sound and look.
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If I'm not mistaken, they are a part of the Visual ensemble (and GE vis) for now, as they are always in the visual category. They will have a greater impact, however, when their own category is added back in, in addition to Brass, perc. 2, vis performance, etc.
So are you saying that Guard will have a separate judge ( guard judge ) that will score that when we have the 8 judge panel return here soon, or a separate guard caption that will simply be added by one of the visual judges ?
thanks again in advance for anyone in the know
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Whats happened to the Brass, Colorguard, and Marching Performance captions? And are there no more on-field judges? I was at the Belding, MI show tonight and didn't see anyone on the field. Its been two or three years since I made it to a show. Can someone explain?
the quick answer is that DCI, in a move to economize, decided to use 5 judges to judge shows during first couple of weeks of the competitive season, and use no field judges. Once we get beyond this early period, DCI will return to their normal slate of 8 judges, which will include the field judges. If the program is successful DCI may reduce the number of judges from it's current 8 for the entire season in the future once this 5 judge format is evaluated by DCI for both it's pros and cons impact.
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Good topic.
Without a doubt, over the years, the Devils have a had an outstanding guard, although last year was an exception. Cavies are also good in this caption. I really like Crown's guard. Glassmen, and Colts have been good the last couple of years too. SCV's and PR's guards were good last year as well. Madison needs to figure the whole guard thing out if they want to dance.
True. Just after I posted my thread and questions, I realized I'm not even sure if the Guards are being scored or not right now ( talk about me being out of the loop on this ). Something tells me there's no separate guard score in the current judging captions. That perhaps the guard caption might have been incorporated into one of the other captions a year or two ago. Then again, I could be wrong, and there is still a separate caption, and will see it when we go back to the 8 judge system in a week or so.
So, 2 simple questions for those in the know :
1) are the Guards being scored now in shows ?
2) under what caption(s) ?
Thanks in advance
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Pretty soon, when the Guards are scored, we are going to see some separation between Corps where right now across the board the leads are razer thin amongst Corps at the top.... in the middle..... and all the way to 17th.
I don't have a clue on Guards.
Who here thinks some Corps have good guards..... soso guards...... and subpar guards ?
Who has what for guards are you hearing, or seeing ?
will Troopers fall back because their guard is low in numbers. Or do they have sufficient quality there right now ?
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Recaps up...
BOSTON BEATS CADETS in VISUAL GE
Percussion seems early on to be holding Boston back from challenging Cadets, Bluecoats.
Glassmen beat Boston in percussion tonite.
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WAY TO GO GLASSMEN!!!!! Looks like they're getting the confidence they needed.
Glassmen have shown the biggest jump since Saturday.
They were 6 tenths over Crossmen Saturday, now tonite a huge 4.9 points over Crossmen.
Glassmen were 4 points and 4.1 points respectively behind Boston 48 hours ago, and now has cut Boston's lead over them to 2.5 tonite.
right now, Glassmen seem to be catching fire.
Will they catch BAC ? time will tell.
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for sheer quality in all sections of the brass line...... I'll go with '93 Star of Indiana
But it' s hard because there have been so many great brass lines.
Imagine what the lines of the 60's would have sounded like if they all had 3 valves, and members and staffs could work with the brass line all day, 7 days a week, for the entire summer.
imagine what the 1965 Royal- Airs, '67 Boston Crusaders, ' 63 St. Kevins, '62 Blessed Sac, etc would have sounded like.
and with 60 or 70 brass...... not the 25-42 most had then.
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Not really used to being told I am against change plus that I am fossil, much less following that up with a STFU lol. I hope his keyboard came out of that rant with a minimal amount of damage. Actually in spirit of open communication, come on back and let me know what I need to do to besides sitting up all night behind my computer. Actually thinking about printing this out and taping it next to me on the bus to help with the rough days……
It is rather difficult t have a give and take civil discussion on perhaps differing opinions when the other party calls the others " fossils " and then to " STFU ".
Especially when the ranter brings up comments about people's resistance to " change " when no such comments were made on either thread regarding anyone's resistance to " change ".
Oh well. Nothing to get worked up over.... just brings a chuckle.
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I dont think that a parent and a past 2 year member can speak for the corps
That's a valid point in my view. The former BK performer would have been well advised to perhaps just give his OWN personal opinion that in 2006 when he marched that the BK members actually " loved being booed ". He said " WE " in his comments. Both he and the other BK poster gave the reader the unmistakeable impression that it was the Corps culture of BK of an "audiences don't matter "culture that permeated the Corps and something of pride within both the show designers, staff and performers. All one has to do is read their comments on that thread to naturally come away with that impression.
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my response to the poster that said above......... "to all the fossils that hate change, STFU" :
Havn't read a single poster on this thread or the other thread last night that said on either thread that they were " against change ". You can look, but it's not there.
So, I'm not really sure where you're coming from with your rather intolerant rant.
But if the rant made you feel better, than at least it apparently had some therapeutic value for you.
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That's the Vaquero's all right. And that pic is hornline instructor Joe Celmers daughter. Joe passed away a while back, but I'm sure his daughter is still out there somewhere. She was a cutey pie...
That pic of that girl is a hoot.....
I showed my wife the pic a minute ago..... " she's so cute and adorable" she said with a smile.
Thanks for posting.
'Made our day !
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With a new corps director, program coordinator, visual caption head, drill designer, guard caption head, and over 100 new members this year, I am curious as to what part of Boston has a "habit of peaking"?
The fact that a poster or two is even mentioning the possibility of Boston beating Cadets, Cavaliers has to be somewhat encouraging for fans of that Corps.
Don't think we'll see it happen this year though. But nobody would have posted such a thing 2 weeks ago that's for sure.
Bluecoats seem to be getting good percussion scores so far. That in itself, might propel them as the season progresses.
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Just so there is no misunderstanding on alleged BK " Corps bashing ", the other thread had the following comments from BK folks :
BLUEKNIGHTMOM : ( quote )......" the ( Blue knights )programs can be a bit obscure or artsy even for the most diehard BK fans "......." kids ( BK ) grow to love that nobody cheers for them ".
HAMPSTERDEATH4 ( BK Alum) ..( quote )......."Many times we ... WE......just didn't care what the audience thought....."Who cares if anyone likes it ? "....... " we.....WE..... actually loved getting booed ( '06 )
I responded to these comments on that thread and said I disagreed with these approaches to design of shows and the performers approaches to the audiences, but that " I respected that position " and recognized that people look at things differently, and that I acknowledged that BK looks at " life lessons," Corps friendships that develop, and so forth, as much more important than an audience reaction to what they do on the field in show performances.
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Note to self,
Our Country is a lot worse off then I suspected. I mean, I new it was bad, but come on......is this sad excuse for the human race for real??? The insult to intelligence is deafening and sorrowfully pitiful at the same time. I don't know weather to laugh or cry. I guess ignorance is truly bliss when it's coming from the village idiot.
And I can't even believe that I just waisted a cogent thought on this.....this....thing!
Mad75
The kid's 19. I 'd cut him some slack. He used the analogy of a Man o' War with an Aircraft Carrier. But he's never been on either. He's just seen pictures of them, same as Drum Corps before he was born in 1988. At 19, he doesn't know what he doesn't know.
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I disagree. I find 70s drum corps to be boring. Obnoxious brass playing, messy druming...
It's like comparing a Man O' War to a Aircraft Carrier. Things evolve. They become, wait for it, better.
70s drum corps was disgusting. I respect it for the traditions that it started and what it meant to those involved, but I don't want to watch it in Classic Countdown, and I find the arrogance on here towards newer marchers near toxic choking levels.
Don't choke. Just spit the bubble gum out and take a small, slow, deep breath.
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well yah thats why I said earlier, how can you make a Finals placement decision about the corps when all the corps haven't performed yet. . . *shrugs*
You make a valid point.
But we've been known to make predictions on Finals Placements in September for the following year.
And remarkably, on the whole, 'been pretty accurate too if you think about it.
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"Not caring about the audience" isn't exactly what I was getting at. Do we assume that Pioneer and the Mandarins don't care about the audience? No, we assume that the kids are enjoying themselves and trying to do their best show, same as their staffs. Same for BK members and their staff. I think that BK tries to push the show in certain directions, that they have a certain "style". Just the way that Hopkins and Cadets have their own style and want to push the sport in their direction, and the way that Pioneer and Mandarin "pushes" by keeping it "the same". It's a style.
I think I understand your main point, and the point of the former BK marcher above. The point you and he made is that connecting to an audience on the part of the BK staff and by extension their members is not that important. Actually, hardly important at all. You listed several other laudable and virtuous and life lesson learning things, and pushing the show in certain directions, etc that are more important than connecting to most audiences. And I ( and many others in the audiences nationally ) have come to accept that when we see BK enter the field.
In my opinion ( probably just 2 cents worth, but here goes ), if I have a pretty good idea that there is virtually little to no chance that my Corps is going to finish in the top 3 or 4 in the coming year then I'd want to work hard as a show designer and as a performer to do what is humanely possible to make the show connect to the audience. I see little to no benefit to working hard to finish year after year out of the top 6, AND be considered boring by too many people to shake a stick at nationally.
But that's just me. I recognize that some " show designers " and " performers " can derive great pleasure and great life learning lessons and other valuable virtues NOT related to how performances connect with many in the audience that have payed to watch them perform. I don't agree with this BK approach to an audience on the part of show designers and performers at all,, but I do think I understand that there are other things they feel are much more important than connecting to many in the audience. And I respect that, while disagreeing completely with that BK approach that was articulated very well by the BK folks on this thread.
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Cavaliers over Cadets? And Phantom over Cadets? There hasn't been a head to head yet, and Cadets have only been out once....you can't rank simply
by scores from one show to another......also, last year, it took the Cadets awhile to get rolling.......this is no diss on the
Cavaliers, but I think you are assuming alot when the gate just opened at the horserace...and it's a long way to the
finish line......... last year's Cavies were out of the gate fast, yet they were lucky to hold onto 3rd.....years and years? Maybe in the staff's minds, but corps practice one year/one show at a time.........
A one point win over Phantom in the opener is hardly competitive "destruction"........
great drill comments thusfar, but nobody has raved about their musical product thusfar in the reviews , which also was their nemesis last year, and they lost
music to Phantom in 06.....it took "sudden" 19.9's in 06 in visual in finals to get the win..........
I will wait until I see and hear finshed products going head to head before I make my call, and this season has just begun.....I think we will
have another strong top 6, and all could be quite competitive by August..............................
GB
I think we're going to have a strong top 12, not just a "strong top 6"
And they'll be quite a healthy competitive battle for that 12th spot for Final's too that should prove VERY interesting.
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Thanks for that. I was thinking something similar - my daughter's rookie year was '06. She says the same thing. They just go out there and perform their show (and they will once they learn this one).
The BK kids get used to it, and grow to love being the ones that are different, that nobody "gets" or that nobody cheers for... (although these kids get some major love in Denver!) You know, kind of like how the Pioneer kids fall in love with their own identity and show and the way the Mandarins are out there doing their thing. BK gets their pride on.
And, I've should have written earlier that drum corps is about life's lessons, and work, and sweat, and pain, and laughing your head off and coming up with "today's hype" -- not just about Finals and scores.
And I do think this a good understanding.
The BK show designers and the Corps performers don't care about the audience.
And for the most part the audiences don't care about the BK shows most years either.
But yet both can co-exist with that mutual understanding.
That it's not connecting to an audience that's most important to a performer and a show designer, but the " life lessons " being taught, and so forth.
I understand. I really do. And it's fine. One of the lessons we learn in life is that not everybody looks at things the same way.
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So here's a question to ponder:
If we almost all agree that at this point scores mean nothing and are skewed, why do we all sit here half the night waiting for those scores?
OK, I'll shut up now.
Perhaps some of us believe that there is a little bit of slotting involved and that once there is a full range of judges, judging all captions, and both on the field, and in the upper stands that..........
They'll be little shifting of corps PLACEMENTS..
So it's the PLACEMENTS, not the scores that keep some of us interested.
But I can't speak for others.... just on why I watch with interest right now, when I agree with you, the scores are simply meaningless.
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Good for Pioneer too-- yesterday 51.6, today 58.2!
True.
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It will be interesting to see the recaps.
HUGE jump by the Troopers.
That's the big story tonight.
They went from a 57.900 to 63.400 tonight.
That's an amazing jump for ANY Corps..... in only 2 days.
I just saw something that is very disturbing...
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by BRASSO
" Japs " ?
whoa...... that's like using the " N " word with the Asian- American community.
Moderator might want to consider closing this thread down.
It's had both sexist and then racist remarks, and as such needs to be taken out of it's misery in my opinion.