kwanswan
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Posts posted by kwanswan
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As someone who sat and watched the event unfold (not sure how he was injured) I have to STRONGLY disagree that Crown or DCI handled the situation well. I train with first responders and after I saw the injury I stopped watching the show and started watching in crisis responder mode.
Ryan tried to get himself off the field several times without any help from ANYONE. I believe he may have even passed out once in the attempts. Nobody came to help him for a significant space of time.
Corp members are taught to get off the field? They are not taught to sit still and wait for help? How does the corp member know how badly injured he/she is? More damage can be done by moving the person! For the sake of the person, why not have him/her sit still and stop the show? I have only seen about two dozen comps but this is the first injury. Does it happen so often that stopping a show gets bothersome?
Then an older gentleman came out...now it appears it was the bus driver! Not a judge, not a Crown staff member or a DCI member, the bus driver? God bless him because nobody else was helping. He tried to put his arm around Ryan but he couldn't support enough of his weight. Then two young women dressed in heels and little black dresses came out and tried to support him. Seems no one else in the DCI or Crown staffs saw what was going on? Or they were too concerned with the show??? The bus driver tried to place Ryan on his back and fireman drag him off the field. Nobody else came to help! The bus driver and Ryan both fell and still no one came to help. In fact it wasn't until the show ended that ANYONE else came out. Then there was no elvaluation of Ryan, they just picked him up by all fours and carried him to the sidelines! Thank God he didn't have a spinal injury. Is there a plan for injuries? A way to stop the show to care for someone?
The injury was shocking to see, but what made me leave the stadium and still has me upset (as well as the medical personnal who were with me) was the length of time that it took for help to get there. Now to hear that the bus driver was injured because NO ONE WOULD HELP. Words fail me.
I hope that DCI and Crown reevaluate, review and relearn their emergency procedures. Injuries are a part of any athletic pursuit, allowing the injured to suffer and having others hurt in the process should never be.
No scorecard is more important than a corp member who pays to be a part of this and whose safety is trusted to the corp.
My thoughts and prayers are with Ryan and with his family (who hopefully didn't see their son, leg broken falling over and over in an attempt to get help). Having lived through a complete ankle reconstrution, I know the pain, recovery time and long term repercussions on such injuries. Good luck Ryan!
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Amen HasBeen
It was impossible not to feel their presence Saturday night. You are right that they owned the field. You knew half way through that you were watching the world champs.
The power that flowed through them was amazing! Like a team of beautiful, powerful thoroughbreds that with one small misstep could careen out of control and crash but with focus and determination create something so transcendent that it makes you weep! That show could have been a train wreck given the power, drive and excitment these kids had in and behind them, but they made it all into something wonderful! What an honor to be a part of that!!!!
There were a lot of favorite moments for me...the Boxer horn moment, Clare De Lune...but my favorite was to look up on the hill and see the Marine corp going nuts for Phantom as they walked past after their show.
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Those are Eastern time. So that means you will start seeing corps after the intermission.
if we are in Eastern time zone (anyone else hitting Lansing MI??) we have to show up and wait 15 minutes for the start :-(
The person I am with is going to be mighty sad to miss Pioneer!
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Well, with my aggressive driving, you'd probably throw up.
2000Cadet, I just wanted to pause in the chaos of this thread and state that I have a lot of respect for how you handle yourself in the midst of this discussion. You have an opinion which you state clearly, admit when you may have misunderstood and recognize that passion makes us all foggy now and again.
Bravo!
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That's the point. Sorry, but using Hitler as an example is weak to begin with..This thread is about a drum corps show right?
And I for one don't let people make my decisions for me. If I want to see a movie, I will go see it to judge for myself. I don't want to live my life as a sheep. But that's just me.
Perhaps using Hitler was a weak analogy, but that wasn't the point.
You never take advice from other people that you act upon? You must make a lot of obvious mistakes that others have already made. I'd tell you not to run out into traffic but since you don't want to be a sheep...
Besides that might be pre-judging the situation! Better to get hit by the car and see if you like it or not, for yourself. -
Well my apologies for misinterpreting what he said.
I have gone to a movie based on a critic or reviewer's opinion, but I have NOT said anything good or bad about that particular movie until I have gone to see it. I wait until I have seen it and then I make my comments on it. So what is your point?
My point is that people can choose to engage something or not based on what they hear from other people's opninions.
I don't think there very many posters that said they hated the show before they saw it. Rather most have said something along the lines of I haven't seen it but if it is what people say I don't think it is good or they have expressed no desire to see the show now (which isn't that different than not seeing a movie based on a review's opinion).
If there were posters who had never seen a minute of the show live or otherwise who did express hate for it without admitting they hadn't seen it then I apologize.
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Go back a little further buddy. He brought up Adolf Hitler in a post replying to me.
I'm not a buddy in the "male friend" sense of the word. Go back a little further lady or chick (I don't find that term as offensive as others do ) would work if you want to find a label for me that is snide.
Yes he did. He did not say anything about mass genocide and narration that was chaddyt who said
"I just get a kick out of how many people seem to feel that mass-genocide and narration in drum corps are in the same spectrum of evil." That was an interpretation.
The original poster was using Hilter as a way to say that people don't need to have first hand experience to judge something.
Like I said, ever gone to see a movie or not gone to see a movie based on a critic's, reviewer's or friend's opinion?
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Offensive? What is so offensive about a lady who fought breast cancer and now is in search of happiness. The show is a tale of our times, something that many people have dealt with. It's not offensive. It might be annoying, and that's a matter of opinion, but not offensive. Terminology is really important.
Well I have said it over and over and over. It was offensive because of the way it was handled. Breast cancer being brought up and the dismissed within two sentences (I had breat cancer. I was surprised but not schocked. Within a week I was in surgey but I'm better now) and never talked about again! I have and will again relate what a person in remission said about it that it was offensive to be handled so lightly and with such disrespect for the toll it has on people's lives. It would be like saying my brother was killed by a drubk driver but I'm all better now.
You do have that right. Did I EVER, EVER, EVER say you don't? NO, never, natta. Reading and learning to really read what is there is very important.Oy vay! Thank you for telling me what I did wrong and what is very important. Can't imagine how I could have missed how to do the right thing!
Please re-read my post. Those words did not come out at all. Yes, you have the right to not like it, and you can not look for something to like, although I think people who fail to look for something good have generally made up their mind to hate the product or corps or an ideal, or even a person. .Thanks for letting me have that right. It was your lecturing and condesending tone. And like that you are back to lecturing me about how to make up my mind! I couldn't find something I liked about it so I must have already made up my mind to hate it!?!!? Maybe I just didn't like it. It doesn't make me less open to new ideas. I just didn't like it!
That is what I believe. I didn't say that's how it really is with you, but clearly you didn't want to look for something good, as you clearly indicated above. Nobody HAS to look for something good, but I usually recommend it when one is out trying to enjoy themselves. It helps to take the positive road. But hey, be as you wish.Yep here we go again. I clearly indicated that I didn't want to look for something good! Really. Thank you for reading my mind. I apprecaite that. I am so glad that you know what I was thinking and feeling when I sat down and started to watch that show. Why is having to look for something good recommended and by whom exactly? Why can't I simply sit down and see what the experience brings me? Who does it help to take the positive road. That is a heck of a moral judgement you are taking!
WOW. Where to start...when did I ever say that DCI is always right and good and that all who disagree with DCI or a corps are whiners? Please find that for me, I am having trouble. This is typical rhetoric from someone who feels persecuted because what I wrote obviously challenged you and your philosophy (which should be a good thing and something to think about). But instead you lash out, accuse me of things I didn't even say, and you come up with desperate platitudes and slogan of freedom and rights to try and make your point, yet you lie and deceive yourself into believing that I am insane and crazy and completely wrong for sharing my opinion. But my opinion gets thrown back at me not in tact, but in some loose paraphrased form that barely resembles anything I really said..Dido my friend. You didn't like that I didn't like it and so you come up with desperate lectures about how I have my mind made up and just look to hate without thinking. That I should be positive and find good in things to enjoy myself. Hmmm desperate platitudes...WOW where to start...did I say you were crazy and insane and completely wrong for sharing your opinion? I said that lecturing people that they are clearly not sharing your opinion and thus can't really see things is condesending but you are really lashing out here!
I dislike some shows all the time. People have read my reviews. They are not always positive. Last year's review about the Cadets was not positive. So clearly I think you can NOT like a show, and you can complain about. This forum is for just that (among other things). But I also suggested that I always try to find the positives in a show. I spoke more about how I feel and what I try to do, and what I believe. You can take that as you may. In other words I threw out some suggestions and philosophies that I try very hard to live by when it comes to this activity, and you can take them as you may. Did I call you out personally, or did I attack your rights? No...This is always the place to hide. I didn't call you name so my lecturing people on how they should believe and act and what they should and shouldn't do is just my philiosophy. Why did you like the show... WITHOUT why eveyone should find something about it they like because it makes a better experience for people.
By the way, the breast cancer aspect of the show is well done, IMO, and to me this show works for better than last years....IMO the breast cance thing isn't well done and I have stated several time why. So far you have told me what I was thinking when I sat down to watch it and that I should be looking for good but you haven't stated why you think it is well done?
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Well if you know how smart you are, you should not take it that way. I did not say that so there is no need to try to convert my words into something that I would not say.
Well maybe you are being unfair.
Anyway, you have made your point so there no need to keep pushing the "narration is the same as mass-genocide" agenda. Thanks. I get it.
Actually now you are putting words in someone else's mouth. The mass genocide bit was brought up by someone else.
In no place did the original poster even bring up narration! The discussion was can someone make a judgement without first hand knowledge. How about I know I don't want to be bitten by a King Cobra. It has never happened to me and perhaps some good might come from it (time off from work, meet my future mate in the ER etc) but even without first hand experience it is not something I want to experience!
If this weren't possible then there would be no such thing as critics and reviewers. Their job is to give an opinion that others may choose to follow. Ever not gone or gone to see a movie based on reading movie reviews or hearing other people talk about it?
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Everyone is going to feel differently about this show, but I think those that have not seen it yet need to be careful about what they say. They may hate electronics and narration, and that's cool, that is their right; but be careful about knocking the actual show until you see it.
I was very critical of The Cadets narration last year, but I always appreciate their amazing performance levels and their music, so I can always find something to get out of their shows. But you have to want to look for those special moments, I believe. If you are hell bent on not liking them or their use of narration, then you will only look for more to complain about, more to not like. Sometimes we see what we want to see.
I saw their show in Toledo, and my reaction to it was different. I think it's classy, elegant, new and fresh, and yes, very well done. To me it was a breath of fresh air, or new air. Certainly it is not your typical show, and I love to see the traditional shows, old-school shows, and the latest in the modern shows. But this show was even more progressive and beautiful than I had predicted, and I think they are now starting to hit the kind of emotions they desire with the acting, narration, staging, and story telling. No, it's not normal drum corps, but I don't always want to see normal drum corps, and I certainly don't want all drum corps looking and sounding alike. I don't want them all using the same template. I want variety, I want some risk taking, and I want someone to surprise me once in a while, even if it's not perfect or my cup of tea.
I get as much of a thrill from the unexpected as I do the traditional. I love to see people trying ideas and concepts and working hard to make them coherent and workable. And trust me, the Cadets show is very workable, and the corps is VERY good--and I mean VERY GOOD!!! I believe that if you are looking for something to entertain you, you can certainly find it in this show. If you are just looking to complain, you will find that too.
Look, what the Cadets are attempting to do is not easy, and yes, it seems many fans are not all that tolerant of what they are doing; but that doesn't mean they can't try. Why is it that the fans get the final say? Just because you pay $20 per ticket and buy souvenirs doesn't give you the final say. We can't just have the fans dictate the activity and then tell the kids marching that they get no say, just do what the fans want, even if you hate it. Oh, and by the way, we want you [the marcher] to rehearse 12 to 15 hours per day in high heat and sweat, and we want you to invest your hard earned dollars (often over $1800) to do what some fans want you to do, even though they don't have to learn and march the show and they could care less about your interests. Yeah, that sounds like a good way to have the tail wag the dog.
Many will say "if we lose the fans we lose the activity." But what I see is that the younger generation, who comprise the market DCI needs more than anything, are more in tune to the narration, electronics, amps, and the kinds of show designs we see today.
Anyway, I think the show is really good, very musical, emotional is you let yourself truly follow the story, and incredibly well performed.
I have no preconvied notions of DCI having seen a total of three shows live. I have no years of history to compare it too or ideals of what good ole' DCi is supposed to be. I saw the Cadets this week and found the show offensive and anoying. Why do I not have that right? Why should I have to LOOK for something good? Why is it that my reaction to the show is not valid because I can't seek out something about it to like? And I am JUST talking about the execution of the concept. Almost no one here has said anything negative about the corp memebrs. Why should I embrace it because it is different and new. I don't know what was old, I just know what I saw!
Some here seem to feel that if it is DCI it must be good and all who disagree are whiners. Why is it invalid to see a show and dislike it?! I and the person I was with found the random breast cancer referrence treated with such a throw away and belitting attitude offensive. Why don't I have that right because it is DCI but you have the right to leacture me that I am a negative hater because the show is cutting edge?
If you are blinded by loyalty and refuse to see anything bad because of it you will only see that too!
On the concept of fans, I have an observation from another sport I love, figure skating. I am a very long time figure skating fan and I have seen the ups and downs the sport has endured. The sports governing body tends to treat fans like dirt. They are the scum that must be tolerated. Guess what the sport is circling the drain and a great deal of it has to do with this disregard for fans and making the sport unlikable and unrelateable.
Fans pay a good chunck of the bills one way or the other. Either they buy tickets to events or they buy the products that the sponsors sell who support the sport or buy the advertising, or they participate in the sport (and $1800 in figure skating terms is a single skating dress and a new pair of skates for one season!). After all particpants start as fans or children of fans. Yes figure skating, like DCI can play to empty houses and the participants will still benefit, but after too many empty houses the houses dry up, the monitary support dries up, the sponorships dries up and so on and so on. Figure skating can't steal a tv contract any more and that is with the Olympics in two years!!! One corp's show will NOT bring down DCI! I have seen 11 corps in the last week and there is plenty that draws me in and makes me book hotels and buy tickets for the next show but underestimating the impact that fans have on a sport is foolish. I LOVE the Cadet evolution shirt, really, really clever concept...I bought a Crossmen's shirt.
The Cadets staff is free to do as they please. If they believe that this show is the best thing they can produce and that it is having the impact they desire then they should proceed as they have started. If there are consquences to the direction in which they appear to be going then those too will be theirs.
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You can even read me the ingredients.
(and Carvel is an Ice Cream place. Where do you live, in Cali or something?? lol)
Ah yes then I can tell you what goes into making you happy! I knew we could bring this around the original point of this thread!!! HA, HA!
Worse...the middle of nowhere Michigan! I looked them up though and there are a few in Detroit so I may have to try them when I am there for the 4th. I am captivated by the picture of the sprinkle machine. Do I get to chose and apply my own sprinkles!?!?!?!!
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Okay, how about we go to Carvel and you pick it out for me?
How about I just narrate you through the choosing process
Sorry I am from a different part of the coutry so I can only assume that Carvel's is an ice cream place? As warm as it is here (rather unusal for this part of the country) I could stand some ice cream!
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Raspberry Sorbet then?
Closer... but I am still feeling that you are locked into an old definition of "frozen dessert" that doesn't allow for growth and development of the genre.
BTW, you do get that I'm kidding don't you
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I'd rather have a Gelato.
Sad really. You just don't get happiness as defined by the dialouge of milk, cream, and salt. Sigh. I am sure however that this can be fixed!
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I think Charles Scultz would have been a better source for narration.
I love this! I had the same idea later in the evening...why not use this song and then we can ALL sing along...
HAPPINESS IS PLAYING THE DRUM IN YOUR OWN SCHOOL BAND
And let's face it this song ends with a FAR more esoteric examination of happiness then snapping fingers...
FOR HAPPINESS IS ANYONE AND ANYTHING AT ALL
THAT'S LOVED BY YOU.
Warm puppy feelings for all!
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Ok....for the shortest possible show, your point is correct. I would call that skewing the data though. You pick the smallest drum corps show (5 shows), and then round the percentage up. I dont know if you guys get those direct TV commercials where you live... "90% of statistics can be made to say anything......60% of the time...."
Oh, and I have no problem with the rest of your post. Its basically your preference, and nothing I have anything to do with...
I don't have a problem with the fact that I don't the Cadets show but I am paying for it. I have seen 11 corps in the last week and there is PLENTY to keep me coming back for more.
However the original poster was talking about 5 corp shows which Belding was. The next poster takes exception but from my brief look at the first 19 shows, fully 55% of the them WERE 5 corp shows! Make it 6 corps and that is 82% of the shows. Maybe shows get bigger as the season progresses but early season to say that basing an assumption on a 5 corp show is skewing things seems a bit too much.
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One part of the narration that annoyed me was when he says it must have been a challenge for her to balance work and her family, and she says something about yes, it was hard, but she went to her daughter's recitals, or something like that. They make it sound like it's such a sacrifice. I wanted to say, millions of women do it EVERY DAY, so it's no big deal! My thought was that a male must have written that dialogue, or someone who is too young to realize that is just something parents do - they work and they take care of family and they go to their kids' performances and sports events. And sometimes they deal with illness (yes, I am a cancer survivor, though not breast cancer).
That is exactly what the breast cancer survivor person I attended with thought. Whoever wrote this is either male or really, really young and hasn't seen much in the world.
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I'd be interested in finding out how many people commenting have actually seen the Cadets show live and in person.
I'm guessing not very many.
I have!
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Can I get an exact storyline of the show? Is this about the life of a girl who had breast cancer and is talking to a psychiatrist about being happy?
Not really. Hmm the short version. This not exact wording mind you.
It starts with a guy saying that he is somebody from American Public Radio and he is doing an in-depth look at happiness. Most American's want it but don't have it...blah, blah, blah. It is trying to be an NPR bit with that much talking! Then he says that he going to talk to Sarah Jones who is a successful business women, wife and mother, she seems to have it all. She states that she was diagnosed with breast cancer and that it was tough but she better now.
Then he says something else and she starts in on college life and that itwas great to be independent blah, blah, blah....ooo and then the band plays! Then she says that while it was great it wa tough to get adjusted and life was hectic. Then he states that most American want a partner to make them happy and she talks about the kind of man she wanted. LOTS of dancers gyrating on each others hips while the band plays.
Then the interviewer asks, but did love last. She says no that she was divorced (so really isn't the wife as first stated??) and that it was tough raising children on her own. Then she starts talking about her fast-paced high paying job that she loves. More band. Then she states that it was tough to balance children and work but she made the time but she really loves her job. Then she states that she has found that happiness isn't something you seek but something you embrace. The whole time there has been a large round stage in the middle of the field that is dressed to look like a 50's house complete with June and Ward Clever. June steps off the stage and accepts a red scarf from the dancer who has sort's been her and the female narrator says I have found that happiness is and the whole field snaps their fingers off to the left.
The end.
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Looks like they are looking for a male to take over one of those roles?
And also, when it comes to the Cadets, expect the ending to the show to be much different in August than it is now.
And finally, they do more than enough "showcasing" of their corps musical talents in the show. Even with the words.
I am glad that the end will change!
This is not at all a critcism of the corp members. They are HIGHLY talented group of individuals who deserve all the praise I can think of. What I didn't like was the execution of the show's concept. I think the concept has potential, but the shallow treatment of the ideas is not great.
I was at the show with a breast cancer survivor and she left VERY offended and that is not at all an easy thing to do. She is former health care worker so she has a pretty tough skin. She is also a former college marching band member whose dream was to be a director (didn't let women in the club in the 60's though) so she knows her marching and her music (she went gaga for the Pioneers because that is some of her favorite band music ever and she all but cried during the Glassmen's encore. That was the best part of the evening for her!)
Her point was that here was a male dominated organization treating breast cancer like it was a mesquito bite...It was a tough time but I'm all better now. The breast cancer bit seemed thrown in there to shock people, like dying your hair purple to #### off your parents, but without coherent connections to the rest of the show or the whole point of the show and with no seeming respect for the life destroying effects cancer has on a woman and her family, even when she survives. It is far, far, far to deep an issue to treat in that manner.
Would it really make the show less coherent to drop the breast cancer reference and have her say something like, "It may seem like i have it all, but I have faced some very dark and difficult times in my life. I have gotten through them and each experience has changed how I perceive what makes me happy." Then the fact that the breast cancer is never mentioned again is not an issue and she could be setting up all the upcoming referrenes like adjusting to college, her divorce, guilt over choosing her job over her children etc.
Like I have said in other posts, I like the concept of the Pursuit of Happiness, but grab a hold of it and dive into it, don't just float around in the baby pool! Look at the concept head on rather than lighting on shallow shadows of the idea. Let the music and motion carry the idea into the audience's heart and head rather than talking around the issue in silly sound bites.
I think the stage people were maybe the interviewer and the woman?? No idea. It seems like a waste of good field space since the concepts ain't making the point.
The best I could get out of the ending was that the red scarf was happiness and she was getting the point of it from her past self??? The end with the snap was about a shallow as I care to get, unless I am missing the cynical twist that was intended.
I really think that this show concept could be amazing. I hope that it develops in that direction but the corp deserves an audience reaction that is equal to their amazing talents!
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The worst obsenity that can happen to a drum corps is to have hardly no reaction at all after a preformance . The
Cadets musically and visually have a very demanding show but I also have difficulty keeping my attention on the
show as a whole with all of the narration less is more . Musicman this is an area that I agree with you .
I am a TOTAL newbie to DCI. I have seen three live shows (one was Beldin) and some taped stuff so my opinion is that of a complete novice but I couldn't agree more that the narration overwhelmed the show! I am a long time theater performer and huge ice skating fan so I feel I know something about creating a feeling for a performance. This one is all over the place! The music and motion seemed disconnected from the story. The stage in the middle really lacked a direct connection. Was that her, her parents, was she being interviewed in her home...what the heck???
The depth of the concept of the search for happiness is mind blowing...is it being like everyone else, fitting in, chasing the Hollywood ideal of the American Dream, making our family proud or something else entirely. Even the beginning of the show hinted that some deep, albeit nauseatingly trite statment, might be made about being happy (I had breast cancer and my ideal of happiness changed), yet as the narrati0on progressed the points kept getting more shallow (I love my job!). Even the story didn't know where it was going...from I survived cancer to happiness is a snap without a single connecting thread. For me the ending was kind of insulting but perhaps I am missing the larger cynical twist of the program.
Boston and the Glassmen had a real audience momentum going and it died after the Cadets.
It would be great to see this program stir an audience...
Injured Crown Member
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Thank you for the mailing address to send cards. It is great to have the opportunity to send good wishes.
As for talking about what we saw and hashing out options why is that off topic? Why is trying to figure out how to make a situation like this one better off topic? Isn't improving an organization a good thing?
As I said previously, God bless the bus driver! Wish others had helped him. It seems odd to me that thousands of spectators couldn't take their eyes off of this accident, but no on on the Crown Staff galnced back?
An usher told me that it takes three minutes for the medics to get on the field. Three minutes from when someone calls them that is.
Why is there not somone who is to watch for problems. Sucks you don't get to watch the show that go through, but your job is to watch for issues? Why is there not a DCI ref who watches for issues and informs the DM to stop for dangers? As a long time figure skating fan, this is the job of the ref...not to watch the show but maintain a safe field.
I understand the idea of getting off the field before you cause more problems and get others hurt. It makes sense until the corp member simply can't get off the field. Then what? If the corp member CAN'T get off the field then others will get hurt including the injured corp member if nothing can be done. What happens if the person passes out? Nobody goes out there to protect the corp member or the other marchers? Why is it wrong to think about this possibility and try and figure out a plan?
My point in all of this, again, is that I hope that Crown, other corps and DCI review the ER policy. Hearing that someone died back in 2005 makes me wonder why no policy was in place from that event. Why is it wrong for DCI do some thinking, planning and educating!?