kwanswan

Thank you for the mailing address to send cards. It is great to have the opportunity to send good wishes. As for talking about what we saw and hashing out options why is that off topic? Why is trying to figure out how to make a situation like this one better off topic? Isn't improving an organization a good thing? As I said previously, God bless the bus driver! Wish others had helped him. It seems odd to me that thousands of spectators couldn't take their eyes off of this accident, but no on on the Crown Staff galnced back? An usher told me that it takes three minutes for the medics to get on the field. Three minutes from when someone calls them that is. Why is there not somone who is to watch for problems. Sucks you don't get to watch the show that go through, but your job is to watch for issues? Why is there not a DCI ref who watches for issues and informs the DM to stop for dangers? As a long time figure skating fan, this is the job of the ref...not to watch the show but maintain a safe field. I understand the idea of getting off the field before you cause more problems and get others hurt. It makes sense until the corp member simply can't get off the field. Then what? If the corp member CAN'T get off the field then others will get hurt including the injured corp member if nothing can be done. What happens if the person passes out? Nobody goes out there to protect the corp member or the other marchers? Why is it wrong to think about this possibility and try and figure out a plan? My point in all of this, again, is that I hope that Crown, other corps and DCI review the ER policy. Hearing that someone died back in 2005 makes me wonder why no policy was in place from that event. Why is it wrong for DCI do some thinking, planning and educating!?

As someone who sat and watched the event unfold (not sure how he was injured) I have to STRONGLY disagree that Crown or DCI handled the situation well. I train with first responders and after I saw the injury I stopped watching the show and started watching in crisis responder mode. Ryan tried to get himself off the field several times without any help from ANYONE. I believe he may have even passed out once in the attempts. Nobody came to help him for a significant space of time. Corp members are taught to get off the field? They are not taught to sit still and wait for help? How does the corp member know how badly injured he/she is? More damage can be done by moving the person! For the sake of the person, why not have him/her sit still and stop the show? I have only seen about two dozen comps but this is the first injury. Does it happen so often that stopping a show gets bothersome? Then an older gentleman came out...now it appears it was the bus driver! Not a judge, not a Crown staff member or a DCI member, the bus driver? God bless him because nobody else was helping. He tried to put his arm around Ryan but he couldn't support enough of his weight. Then two young women dressed in heels and little black dresses came out and tried to support him. Seems no one else in the DCI or Crown staffs saw what was going on? Or they were too concerned with the show??? The bus driver tried to place Ryan on his back and fireman drag him off the field. Nobody else came to help! The bus driver and Ryan both fell and still no one came to help. In fact it wasn't until the show ended that ANYONE else came out. Then there was no elvaluation of Ryan, they just picked him up by all fours and carried him to the sidelines! Thank God he didn't have a spinal injury. Is there a plan for injuries? A way to stop the show to care for someone? The injury was shocking to see, but what made me leave the stadium and still has me upset (as well as the medical personnal who were with me) was the length of time that it took for help to get there. Now to hear that the bus driver was injured because NO ONE WOULD HELP. Words fail me. I hope that DCI and Crown reevaluate, review and relearn their emergency procedures. Injuries are a part of any athletic pursuit, allowing the injured to suffer and having others hurt in the process should never be. No scorecard is more important than a corp member who pays to be a part of this and whose safety is trusted to the corp. My thoughts and prayers are with Ryan and with his family (who hopefully didn't see their son, leg broken falling over and over in an attempt to get help). Having lived through a complete ankle reconstrution, I know the pain, recovery time and long term repercussions on such injuries. Good luck Ryan!

Amen HasBeen It was impossible not to feel their presence Saturday night. You are right that they owned the field. You knew half way through that you were watching the world champs. The power that flowed through them was amazing! Like a team of beautiful, powerful thoroughbreds that with one small misstep could careen out of control and crash but with focus and determination create something so transcendent that it makes you weep! That show could have been a train wreck given the power, drive and excitment these kids had in and behind them, but they made it all into something wonderful! What an honor to be a part of that!!!! There were a lot of favorite moments for me...the Boxer horn moment, Clare De Lune...but my favorite was to look up on the hill and see the Marine corp going nuts for Phantom as they walked past after their show.

if we are in Eastern time zone (anyone else hitting Lansing MI??) we have to show up and wait 15 minutes for the start :-( The person I am with is going to be mighty sad to miss Pioneer!

2000Cadet, I just wanted to pause in the chaos of this thread and state that I have a lot of respect for how you handle yourself in the midst of this discussion. You have an opinion which you state clearly, admit when you may have misunderstood and recognize that passion makes us all foggy now and again. Bravo!

Perhaps using Hitler was a weak analogy, but that wasn't the point. You never take advice from other people that you act upon? You must make a lot of obvious mistakes that others have already made. I'd tell you not to run out into traffic but since you don't want to be a sheep... Besides that might be pre-judging the situation! Better to get hit by the car and see if you like it or not, for yourself.

My point is that people can choose to engage something or not based on what they hear from other people's opninions. I don't think there very many posters that said they hated the show before they saw it. Rather most have said something along the lines of I haven't seen it but if it is what people say I don't think it is good or they have expressed no desire to see the show now (which isn't that different than not seeing a movie based on a review's opinion). If there were posters who had never seen a minute of the show live or otherwise who did express hate for it without admitting they hadn't seen it then I apologize.

I'm not a buddy in the "male friend" sense of the word. Go back a little further lady or chick (I don't find that term as offensive as others do ) would work if you want to find a label for me that is snide. Yes he did. He did not say anything about mass genocide and narration that was chaddyt who said "I just get a kick out of how many people seem to feel that mass-genocide and narration in drum corps are in the same spectrum of evil." That was an interpretation. The original poster was using Hilter as a way to say that people don't need to have first hand experience to judge something. Like I said, ever gone to see a movie or not gone to see a movie based on a critic's, reviewer's or friend's opinion?

Well I have said it over and over and over. It was offensive because of the way it was handled. Breast cancer being brought up and the dismissed within two sentences (I had breat cancer. I was surprised but not schocked. Within a week I was in surgey but I'm better now) and never talked about again! I have and will again relate what a person in remission said about it that it was offensive to be handled so lightly and with such disrespect for the toll it has on people's lives. It would be like saying my brother was killed by a drubk driver but I'm all better now. Oy vay! Thank you for telling me what I did wrong and what is very important. Can't imagine how I could have missed how to do the right thing! Thanks for letting me have that right. It was your lecturing and condesending tone. And like that you are back to lecturing me about how to make up my mind! I couldn't find something I liked about it so I must have already made up my mind to hate it!?!!? Maybe I just didn't like it. It doesn't make me less open to new ideas. I just didn't like it! Yep here we go again. I clearly indicated that I didn't want to look for something good! Really. Thank you for reading my mind. I apprecaite that. I am so glad that you know what I was thinking and feeling when I sat down and started to watch that show. Why is having to look for something good recommended and by whom exactly? Why can't I simply sit down and see what the experience brings me? Who does it help to take the positive road. That is a heck of a moral judgement you are taking! Dido my friend. You didn't like that I didn't like it and so you come up with desperate lectures about how I have my mind made up and just look to hate without thinking. That I should be positive and find good in things to enjoy myself. Hmmm desperate platitudes...WOW where to start...did I say you were crazy and insane and completely wrong for sharing your opinion? I said that lecturing people that they are clearly not sharing your opinion and thus can't really see things is condesending but you are really lashing out here! This is always the place to hide. I didn't call you name so my lecturing people on how they should believe and act and what they should and shouldn't do is just my philiosophy. Why did you like the show... WITHOUT why eveyone should find something about it they like because it makes a better experience for people. IMO the breast cance thing isn't well done and I have stated several time why. So far you have told me what I was thinking when I sat down to watch it and that I should be looking for good but you haven't stated why you think it is well done?

Actually now you are putting words in someone else's mouth. The mass genocide bit was brought up by someone else. In no place did the original poster even bring up narration! The discussion was can someone make a judgement without first hand knowledge. How about I know I don't want to be bitten by a King Cobra. It has never happened to me and perhaps some good might come from it (time off from work, meet my future mate in the ER etc) but even without first hand experience it is not something I want to experience! If this weren't possible then there would be no such thing as critics and reviewers. Their job is to give an opinion that others may choose to follow. Ever not gone or gone to see a movie based on reading movie reviews or hearing other people talk about it?

I have no preconvied notions of DCI having seen a total of three shows live. I have no years of history to compare it too or ideals of what good ole' DCi is supposed to be. I saw the Cadets this week and found the show offensive and anoying. Why do I not have that right? Why should I have to LOOK for something good? Why is it that my reaction to the show is not valid because I can't seek out something about it to like? And I am JUST talking about the execution of the concept. Almost no one here has said anything negative about the corp memebrs. Why should I embrace it because it is different and new. I don't know what was old, I just know what I saw! Some here seem to feel that if it is DCI it must be good and all who disagree are whiners. Why is it invalid to see a show and dislike it?! I and the person I was with found the random breast cancer referrence treated with such a throw away and belitting attitude offensive. Why don't I have that right because it is DCI but you have the right to leacture me that I am a negative hater because the show is cutting edge? If you are blinded by loyalty and refuse to see anything bad because of it you will only see that too! On the concept of fans, I have an observation from another sport I love, figure skating. I am a very long time figure skating fan and I have seen the ups and downs the sport has endured. The sports governing body tends to treat fans like dirt. They are the scum that must be tolerated. Guess what the sport is circling the drain and a great deal of it has to do with this disregard for fans and making the sport unlikable and unrelateable. Fans pay a good chunck of the bills one way or the other. Either they buy tickets to events or they buy the products that the sponsors sell who support the sport or buy the advertising, or they participate in the sport (and $1800 in figure skating terms is a single skating dress and a new pair of skates for one season!). After all particpants start as fans or children of fans. Yes figure skating, like DCI can play to empty houses and the participants will still benefit, but after too many empty houses the houses dry up, the monitary support dries up, the sponorships dries up and so on and so on. Figure skating can't steal a tv contract any more and that is with the Olympics in two years!!! One corp's show will NOT bring down DCI! I have seen 11 corps in the last week and there is plenty that draws me in and makes me book hotels and buy tickets for the next show but underestimating the impact that fans have on a sport is foolish. I LOVE the Cadet evolution shirt, really, really clever concept...I bought a Crossmen's shirt. The Cadets staff is free to do as they please. If they believe that this show is the best thing they can produce and that it is having the impact they desire then they should proceed as they have started. If there are consquences to the direction in which they appear to be going then those too will be theirs.

Ah yes then I can tell you what goes into making you happy! I knew we could bring this around the original point of this thread!!! HA, HA! Worse...the middle of nowhere Michigan! I looked them up though and there are a few in Detroit so I may have to try them when I am there for the 4th. I am captivated by the picture of the sprinkle machine. Do I get to chose and apply my own sprinkles!?!?!?!!

How about I just narrate you through the choosing process Sorry I am from a different part of the coutry so I can only assume that Carvel's is an ice cream place? As warm as it is here (rather unusal for this part of the country) I could stand some ice cream!

Closer... but I am still feeling that you are locked into an old definition of "frozen dessert" that doesn't allow for growth and development of the genre. BTW, you do get that I'm kidding don't you

Sad really. You just don't get happiness as defined by the dialouge of milk, cream, and salt. Sigh. I am sure however that this can be fixed!

I love this! I had the same idea later in the evening...why not use this song and then we can ALL sing along... HAPPINESS IS PLAYING THE DRUM IN YOUR OWN SCHOOL BAND And let's face it this song ends with a FAR more esoteric examination of happiness then snapping fingers... FOR HAPPINESS IS ANYONE AND ANYTHING AT ALL THAT'S LOVED BY YOU. Warm puppy feelings for all!

I don't have a problem with the fact that I don't the Cadets show but I am paying for it. I have seen 11 corps in the last week and there is PLENTY to keep me coming back for more. However the original poster was talking about 5 corp shows which Belding was. The next poster takes exception but from my brief look at the first 19 shows, fully 55% of the them WERE 5 corp shows! Make it 6 corps and that is 82% of the shows. Maybe shows get bigger as the season progresses but early season to say that basing an assumption on a 5 corp show is skewing things seems a bit too much.

That is exactly what the breast cancer survivor person I attended with thought. Whoever wrote this is either male or really, really young and hasn't seen much in the world.

I have!

Not really. Hmm the short version. This not exact wording mind you. It starts with a guy saying that he is somebody from American Public Radio and he is doing an in-depth look at happiness. Most American's want it but don't have it...blah, blah, blah. It is trying to be an NPR bit with that much talking! Then he says that he going to talk to Sarah Jones who is a successful business women, wife and mother, she seems to have it all. She states that she was diagnosed with breast cancer and that it was tough but she better now. Then he says something else and she starts in on college life and that itwas great to be independent blah, blah, blah....ooo and then the band plays! Then she says that while it was great it wa tough to get adjusted and life was hectic. Then he states that most American want a partner to make them happy and she talks about the kind of man she wanted. LOTS of dancers gyrating on each others hips while the band plays. Then the interviewer asks, but did love last. She says no that she was divorced (so really isn't the wife as first stated??) and that it was tough raising children on her own. Then she starts talking about her fast-paced high paying job that she loves. More band. Then she states that it was tough to balance children and work but she made the time but she really loves her job. Then she states that she has found that happiness isn't something you seek but something you embrace. The whole time there has been a large round stage in the middle of the field that is dressed to look like a 50's house complete with June and Ward Clever. June steps off the stage and accepts a red scarf from the dancer who has sort's been her and the female narrator says I have found that happiness is and the whole field snaps their fingers off to the left. The end.

I am glad that the end will change! This is not at all a critcism of the corp members. They are HIGHLY talented group of individuals who deserve all the praise I can think of. What I didn't like was the execution of the show's concept. I think the concept has potential, but the shallow treatment of the ideas is not great. I was at the show with a breast cancer survivor and she left VERY offended and that is not at all an easy thing to do. She is former health care worker so she has a pretty tough skin. She is also a former college marching band member whose dream was to be a director (didn't let women in the club in the 60's though) so she knows her marching and her music (she went gaga for the Pioneers because that is some of her favorite band music ever and she all but cried during the Glassmen's encore. That was the best part of the evening for her!) Her point was that here was a male dominated organization treating breast cancer like it was a mesquito bite...It was a tough time but I'm all better now. The breast cancer bit seemed thrown in there to shock people, like dying your hair purple to #### off your parents, but without coherent connections to the rest of the show or the whole point of the show and with no seeming respect for the life destroying effects cancer has on a woman and her family, even when she survives. It is far, far, far to deep an issue to treat in that manner. Would it really make the show less coherent to drop the breast cancer reference and have her say something like, "It may seem like i have it all, but I have faced some very dark and difficult times in my life. I have gotten through them and each experience has changed how I perceive what makes me happy." Then the fact that the breast cancer is never mentioned again is not an issue and she could be setting up all the upcoming referrenes like adjusting to college, her divorce, guilt over choosing her job over her children etc. Like I have said in other posts, I like the concept of the Pursuit of Happiness, but grab a hold of it and dive into it, don't just float around in the baby pool! Look at the concept head on rather than lighting on shallow shadows of the idea. Let the music and motion carry the idea into the audience's heart and head rather than talking around the issue in silly sound bites. I think the stage people were maybe the interviewer and the woman?? No idea. It seems like a waste of good field space since the concepts ain't making the point. The best I could get out of the ending was that the red scarf was happiness and she was getting the point of it from her past self??? The end with the snap was about a shallow as I care to get, unless I am missing the cynical twist that was intended. I really think that this show concept could be amazing. I hope that it develops in that direction but the corp deserves an audience reaction that is equal to their amazing talents!

I am a TOTAL newbie to DCI. I have seen three live shows (one was Beldin) and some taped stuff so my opinion is that of a complete novice but I couldn't agree more that the narration overwhelmed the show! I am a long time theater performer and huge ice skating fan so I feel I know something about creating a feeling for a performance. This one is all over the place! The music and motion seemed disconnected from the story. The stage in the middle really lacked a direct connection. Was that her, her parents, was she being interviewed in her home...what the heck??? The depth of the concept of the search for happiness is mind blowing...is it being like everyone else, fitting in, chasing the Hollywood ideal of the American Dream, making our family proud or something else entirely. Even the beginning of the show hinted that some deep, albeit nauseatingly trite statment, might be made about being happy (I had breast cancer and my ideal of happiness changed), yet as the narrati0on progressed the points kept getting more shallow (I love my job!). Even the story didn't know where it was going...from I survived cancer to happiness is a snap without a single connecting thread. For me the ending was kind of insulting but perhaps I am missing the larger cynical twist of the program. Boston and the Glassmen had a real audience momentum going and it died after the Cadets. It would be great to see this program stir an audience...