wishbonecav
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Posts posted by wishbonecav
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I remember horn players at '83 Patriots rehearsal with the words "Gauchos", "Shoreliners" and "Magnificent Yankees" on their horn cases. And marching my first parade with the Patriots "A" Corps next to the Appleknockers and Savannah Cellar Savers. And the Barons and Firebirds were still breathing, too (but just barely).
Does that make me old? Or just "old-er"?
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I think the point is that it is not really about disenfranchisement, but about having a tool that has been proven to be certainly life-changing for a number of youth that have had the opportunity to participate... and not extending that tool and opportunity into a segment of the population that could benefit from this even more dramatically.
This is where the discussion gets into a grey area. The language of "proven to be life-changing" assumes that (a) one needs a some kind of life change and that (b) drum corps is the proven answer. On both fronts this is paternalistic (who are we to decide "who" needs "what"?) and near arrogant in it's assumed outcome.
There is no such "proven tool" for anyone's absolute emotional or experiential outcome.
And "not extending that tool" assumes that the hand of inclusion hasn't been offered (or, in some way offered "enough").
And to assume "they just don't know about it, or they WOULD do it" means we assume ignorance for others and then judge VALUE for others.
Can't we give the "segment of the population" any credit for making decisions based on their own information, cultural emphases and individual priorities?
Isn't that what we all do on a daily basis?
Are "we" so arrogant to assume that we are smarter than "them"? Or that "we" have more information, therefore make "better" choices?
Maybe "we" need to get over ourselves a little bit. This whole "argument" is a trap; manifested in guilt, heavy in rhetoric, impossible to quantify and counterproductive in that there is no measure of success that will ever be "good enough" for those who pose the questions.
WE AREN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG IN DOING WHAT WE DO.
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When there is a stated goal to represent "population percentages" or to pursue an idealistic sense of "fairness", there is an inherent disingenuousness to the effort that saps the soul of any activity.
On top of that, an existential sense of "guilt" is a poor driver for any endeavor.
Tough topic here, but I don't get the sense that there is any true disenfranchisement in drum corps. If there were, we would have heard from the "disenfranchised" a long time ago.
I think "the director's" comments represent a patronizing, guilt-mongering attitude that is counterproductive. It suggests we are doing something "wrong" by merely doing what we do.
Where there is passion-driven effort, excellence follows. This is true regardless the activity.
Is it so unfair to conclude that different kinds of people pour passion into different kinds of goals? And imbalances in pure numbers might simply be a product of cultural differences and rational choices?
It is patronizing to assume that one culture's aims "would be" or "should be" or "could be" like another's; or to "speak on their behalf" when they might prefer you simply "mind your own business."
And it is narrow minded to conclude that money is the end-all, be-all in decision making in America. Every endeavor has a "cost" but it includes effort, dedication and matters of priority.
IMO: The comment is inflammatory and serves no real positive purpose. Rubbing our chins and suggesting some kind of wrongdoing (where none exists) is a real shame.
Let's just get to doing what we do. DCI/DCA is a party where everyone's invited. If they CHOOSE not to come, we have to RESPECT their choice for what it is, not decide for someone what their choice should be.
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Gas prices rose from a nominal (2006 dollars) $1.50 a gallon to $2.80 between 1979 and 1981. The Oil Embargo of 1973 caused a marginal increase from 1973-1978, but not one that could be considered as "severe" or "catastrophic." Plus, the supply of diesel (that's what the buses run on) was less impacted than the supply of refined regular. Prices dropped every year from 81-85 returned to 1978 levels in 1986 and remained there (or lower) until 2002.
So gas prices can certainly be considered from 79-86, but not overstated. Beyond the 79-81 period, the decrease in corps cannot be materially correlated to gas prices.
And a limited tour, restricted tour or more efficient tour could certainly offset increased gas prices without necessitating the corps "folding."
The catalyst was insurance premiums combined with the mandate to participate in the complete tour.
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The line item that spelled the death knell for many corps in the 1980's was INSURANCE AND LIABILITY PREMIUMS.
The increases in costs of food, gas, instructional staff, rentals, etc were incremental. Those were budget items that came with predictable pricing. Most corps had enough of a spread in their budgets to absorb an uptick in gas prices from year to year without sacrificing in other areas (the kids still ate).
But the EXPLOSION in insurance premiums, combined with the corps' inability to get an economy of scale through group insurance rates, meant the corps had a devils' choice of siphoning funds from other areas (like SAFETY..including smaller meals, using older and broken down buses, etc) , line-of-credit borrowing, outright walking away from obligations (like not paying for housing and leaving in the middle of the night) or folding the tent.
"Dues" was an attempted gap filler, but also eliminated some kids' participation because they "couldn't afford it."
So a corps with dues became a smaller corps with higher dues, and so on. The corps folded for lack of money or members or both.
The national tour used to be two weeks. Regional first tour used to keep costs down for the Open Corps and gave the Class A corps a chance to compete on a day-trip basis. So two types of student (full tour kids as well as summer job/march-on-the-weekend kids) got to participate. Then get on the bus and meet in the middle (Madison, for example).
Hopefully the corps made it back home on available cash. Sometimes, the directors had to put some PB&J and Sunny Delight on a personal credit card, but a week's bingo receipts usually covered it. It was non-profit on a shoestring. And it worked for a while.
There were other valuable "Championships" whereby a corps could skip DCI, save some dough, but still have a solid experience: Circuit Championships (DCE, DCM, ODCA, E-Mass), American International Open (Butler), World Open (Lynn), US Open (Marion, OH and an AWESOME CHAMPIONSHIPS).
But 4 weeks tour means double the liability; means double the travel; means double insurance. And premiums were Waaaaaaayy out of whack.
Wonder why DCA is getting bigger? Members drive themselves to shows. Transfer of risk (from corps to member) and no premium (or certainly smaller).
Band Programs have a tremendous advantage in this regard. The school districts pick up the tab for travel, insurance and liability premiums. And they have a greater source of funds at their disposal than ANY DRUM CORPS when it comes to getting new gear and covering higher costs...it's called a school tax.
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West Side Story (especially if you include Elk's Parade at the Victory Concert) & Sinatra 2001.
'93 @ DCE Boston and '96 in Syracuse weren't bad either :)
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Hey Tom, I don't trust you... The stadium is ground zero in some of the worst that humanity can be. The "city" of Rochester is in trouble and getting worse. They are currently breaking the budget with a program called "zero tolerance" attempting to stem the tide of violence. However the daily shootings, stabbings, and assault's continue. As a matter of fact, recently just a short distance from the stadium, a group of women attacked, beat, stabbed, and murdered another woman in the middle of an intersection, in broad daylight, with 40 people watching, and the police have yet been able to make an arrest. "Common sense" ???? OK.....
This is truly an unfortunate post because it strikes at the most basic of human needs and is difficult to diffuse in a society that has adopted fear-mongering as its mantra. If we can find one event in a thousand to be fearful about, we declare the system irretrievably broken, cast doubt over others decision making, claim some form of moral high ground and "harrumph" when things actually go well, claiming that it would be "just a matter of time" before something else goes wrong.
It's difficult to take an opposing position when the language of fear overtakes the argument...but I'll give it a try...and from the perspective of a DCA '07 attendee.
I went to DCA Finals on Sunday night and parked my car on Grape Street. The sun was still up. It was a pretty darn comfortable night. Know what I saw? Kids in the street. Oh, by the way...they were all black kids. Know what they were doing? Riding their bikes, bouncing balls, chasing each other, playing tag. Know what the adults were doing? They were in chairs on the lawn or on the porch...supervising the kids. I waved. I said hello to some of the kids and one asked me what was going on "over there." I gestured to the adults as if to ask if it was ok to stop and chat and one of them nodded their approval. I stopped for a minute or two and pointed out some of the people in corps jackets. I told them what to look for and listen for throughout the night. Without realizing it, I found myself tossing their ball while I talked with them.
To be honest, they weren't really interested in the "show" so much as the "event". After a few sentences, the only response I got was "throw me the ball!" as the kids all went out for a pass. I threw kind of a duck. They threw it back. The second one was a little tighter. We did this for about 5 minutes. I bet I could've played for a half hour with them and they were a little disappointed to see me leave. I told them I might see them after the show.
I walked the 200 feet to the stadium and saw DCA unfolding. There were no cars up on blocks. There were no oil drums burning. There was a convenience store doing a pretty good business on one corner and there were 4 uniformed cops shooting the breeze and helping the visitors cross the intersection near the will-call area.
The stadium looked great. It was super clean. The brick sidewalk was well swept and the smell of Italian sausage was making its way outside the gate. There were a couple of houses bordering the stadium that were boarded up, but there were others where a little entrepreneurial spirit was in vogue to provide some parking on lawns (my street spot was a freebie and under a street light). Was it a dynamic downtown environment? No. That was Friday Night when I & E lit up the Main Street area near the best of Rochester...the Convention Center, Broad Street, the Gennessee River, the Blue Cross Arena, the Federal Building and some good Irish Pubs. That is where the GRVA shows itself off...and DCA benefitted from that immensely.
This was a little different. Paetec Park is a mile or two from Rochester's best. Physically and metaphorically. A kind way to say it is "it ain't the suburbs." If it was a pocketful of change, Paetec looks like a shiny penny next to some pretty dull nickels. But I am here to tell you that I didn't do anything differently than I wouldn't have done at Seabreeze or the local motel. I put my valuable stuff on my person (phone and cash), locked the doors and went to the event. And I didn't give it a second thought. The "out-of-towners" that parked in front of me and behind me (I could tell by their plates) did the same thing (though they didn't stop to play catch.)
I got inside early so I could visit with my friends and waited for my "date" to buzz me on my cell (my stepsister Shelly who was arriving a little later). Turns out she parked on the street, too, and walked to the stadium. Imagine? A grown woman, with her purse in hand, walking by herself? Amazing!
And it looked like about 7500 others had a similar experience. It was a celebration. From the Crusaders to the Bucs. It was a glorious night.
Need a litmus test for how it turned out at the end? We walked IN THE DARK to our cars. The smallest kids were nowhere to be found (the streetlights were on) and there were only a few of the neighbors standing around talking on the sidewalk. On a Sunday night. On a Holiday weekend. We said hello to them and good-bye to each other and could hear the sounds of the Bucs victory performance behind us. Awesome.
Am I going to DCA 2008? You bet I am. I need redemption for that first pass.
I only hope I get the same parking spot.
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Cadets of Greece ran into perennially difficult financial circumstances. (That is the most charitable description.)
They officially merged with the Patriots (Fusion) and the merger nearly killed the Patriots (the 1984 re-birth of the Patriots was a John Nolan miracle).
They officially merged with the Firebirds in 84 and became the Northmen...a pretty darn good drum corps for two years.
They took high horns in Allentown and high drums at DCI Prelims. 10 snares, 5 tenors (including JJ Pipitone), 5 basses.
In '86, they didn't field a corps, but put kids on busses, at first to Avant Garde, until the "project" came unglued due to lack of funds (primarily) and some real tension among leadership.
The busses then pointed North to Kitchener, ONT and thats the year Dutch Boy broke out....infusion of members = success!
In '87, Northmen fielded a corps under new direction that was a shell of the older group. Uniforms and equipment made their way to Corning and became Spectrum.
Making membership matters difficult for the fledgling groups was the emergence of the Empire Statesmen (1983-84) who's relaxed approach to age (at the time a larger concern), a lighter schedule and an entertaining on-field product made them a compelling choice.
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And I feel so compelled to add a note here...
It's hard not to respond sometimes when you feel insulted or hurt.
Ecc 5:2 "Do not be quick with your mouth...let your words be few..."
I will let my words be few.
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Sadly, TAFL, unless or until you've had the privilege to be in a corps under the leadership of a major the likes of Jimmy Russo, you just won't get it, ever. I've had the honor of being led by him in both the Cabs competing corps and the Alumni, and he is more than a figure on the podium. He is part of the heart and soul of the corps, on and off the field: a motivating force, a field commander, a showman, a leader who exudes confidence and makes you want to give your best.
From what I have seen of David Bruni, I am sure the same is true of him for Empire. You simply have no clue if you've never had the opportunity to be with one of the great ones like Jimmy or David. How unfortunate for you.
Jimmy Russo...as an 8 year old...man, he was like a movie star. I got into corps so I could be like him. 16 years later, I was at his HOF induction banquet. What an honor for me. And he still calls me Joey. David let me stay around even when I screwed up...and I screwed up plenty. Russ is cooler than Wayne Newton. Rich is the best conductor I have ever seen. Beth is still hot. And Rose is still cool (as in Fonzie).
Hard to hate on any of these people.
We know what we know.
And it's fun to call these folks our friends.
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So you can do without a drum major? I'd like to respond....
Two words: David Bruni.
Two more words: Jimmy Russo
Two more: Russ Batsch
Two more: James Gulke
Two more: Rehearsal Discipline
Two more: Accountability and Leadership
The drum major is so far beyond the conductor on the podium.
What about rehearsal?
What about staff decision making?
What about the role as sounding board for the members?
Take a look at your drum major. They are the first ones there and the last ones to leave. Rehearsal day and show day.
They are the eyes of discipline in private and the face of the corps in public. And so much of their meaning is unspoken, yet understood.
Do you show up 10 minutes late to rehearsal? Maybe once. Until David reminds you of your commitment to the corps and your teammates.
Do you lollygag to your dot? Maybe once. Untill Jimmy calls you out and demands more from you as a member of something historic, something magical, something greater than yourself.
Do you act like a rookie? Or do you borrow from the confidence and veteran presence of Russ and stand tall and proud? He has enough to spare. He's earned it.
It's so much more than 4/4 or 12/8. It's so much more than cuing the horn entrance or emphasizing dynamics. Its competence as a musician, a person, a friend and a leader.
I gave you a short list of some of the best. I could go on...Rich Armstrong, Beth Fabrizio, Rose Cataneo. Way more than conductors.
Way more.
It would be a mistake to ever sell them short again.
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Madison and Troopers (from quarters).
awesome
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WINDJAMMERS (Coast Guard Academy) did Redskins v Giants at the Meadowlands in 1989
...and Saints v Patriots at Foxboro in 1990.
We got booed in New Jersey.
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What year recently did SCV play matched? I bet they didn't tilt their drums B)
I played matched 1 year marching corps ('98). It sucked. Then again, I played some tenors during the drum solo. So it helped there. ^0^
I played matched for 5 years (92-96). Won High drums twice (93,94). It didn't suck.
Then again, I didn't play tenors.
Oh, wait.
Yes I did.
And won high drums that year, too (92).
I believe the formula was "left hand back" and "nose level"...from old skool SCV (Thanks, Tim Stodd) Of course, Teddy Mascari says, and he may have a point that I am not willing to concede, "It takes more than triplet rolls and paradiddles to win drums nowadays."
Valid? Maybe. It's just hard to hear him over my ring.
(For reference to those reading the post: it's an inside joke. I played snare with altavet. As I recall, we played tra-dish....'and it was good.'
L'Insolite, SCV, 27th and Les Eclipses had the best matched lines ever in DCI..imo :)
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I personally use Santa Clara Vanguard's Drumline feature from 1979 as my ringtone. Beat that - That's right - you really can't......
I gotcha.....
85 Santa Clara...Festive Overture...scares the snot out of me every time I get a call!!!!
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I was just going to ask the same thing.
Andy...i just stole your picture for my desktop background!!!!!
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And, btw, I like OPEN CLASS.
And I like it as a springboard to Quarterfinals, thank you very much.
And give them 3 spots on Thursday.
22 for the "World", 3 for the "Open". 25 corps. Shake it out.
Top 17 advance...same as always.
But the customer gets a little more good drum corps! And the 3 "Open Corps" have a Quarterfinalist achievement. That's cool.
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Just be happy you weren't handed a Beatles show to march ^0^
Oh, my boy, THAT is funny.
And re: "flat"...the original post didn't mention the Bluecoats...and, oh, gee...little Billy didn't get a pat on the back....so he cries about it....and then gets an opinion he doesn't like...cries even more...then, after a temper tantrum and some personal insults, tries to tell everyone he insulted directly that he was "misconstrued."
Money bet that he will say that he felt that his corps was insulted first. Re-read the thread.
I think I captured the spirit of the thing.
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wow, you figured out that i marched there.. you should be a detective or something wow..
and i just stated a fact.. there's nothin biased about that..
also, it really doesn't make much sense for the crowd reaction to be so much lower than all of these corps considering it was a good number of peoples favorite show.
I don't hide the fact that I marched there... so don't point it out because it's already obvious?
pm sent
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If you remember, the Cadets, actually, just Hopkins, ticked off the drum corps world when he demanded they repaint the field. Listen to the finals crowd, guarentee it's louder.
And you're lobbying for the corps I assume you marched. Sounds a little biased to me.
Now go ahead and tell me that I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about, seems pretty common on DCP.
You are stupid and you don't know what you are talking about. Oh, and you didn't march...and , if you did, it wasn't anywhere good, and if it was anywhere good, it was the wrong section, and if it was the right section, you didn't play the first part and if you did, it wasn't the right yearand so on and so on so please, keep your opinions, comments and thoughts to yourself. That makes for a lively thread, don't you think?
From the stands...Garfield's last 15 seconds had em throwing babies. Bluecoats show was a formula ending made distracting by the contents of the case. I have no dog in this particular fight. I gauged a response. For Cadets (and GOOD FOR THEM!) it was over the top so as to be ABSURD!
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"As for Madison...the kids from the band I was teaching loved it...I thought it was pretty bleh. Something seems wrong when one of, if not the most, effective part of your show is part of the unjudged pre-show. "
Madison did not have an intro, it was all judged and very well received by the crowd in Pasadena........
....and it was ridiculous. The proof is in the APD!! (If you listen for ticks, you WILL find them...ouch...was that baritone a count early?...but the point here is RESPONSE...and my, oh, my did the boys get it that afternoon. ) Good stuff. (and we will ignore any percieved bias in your comment and simply take it as information delivered at face value!!)
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Positive I'll give you. But it didn't reach the realm of ridiculous.
In fact, compared to the Lisle show in June (where it was truly delivered with gusto and recieved with awe), the Bloo show got that DCI-tour watering that left it a kind of flat "package" in Pasadena. Reminded me of Cadets 95...just loony in June and July...but incomprehensibly flat once it got to Buffalo.
At the end of the day, the awesome STANDOUTS were the ones mentioned. :)
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I beg to differ. The crowd response for Madison was much greater than for most of the finalists. It was well deserved - they actually entertain! More corps should try that.
At Quarters, the response for Madison was off the chain. I was 49 rows up and the reaction MOVED ME. Im made sure to look left to right and it was palatable. The hair on my neck stood up. It was really neat to see that kind of outpouring.
The APD don't lie either. :)
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What is it about these alumni corps that so deeply captures the imagination? If you've seen it first-hand, you know it's DIFFERENT.
27th in Boston got the single biggest response I have ever seen at any drum corps event ever, ever, ever.
I have never, EVER, seen as much fist pumping, clapping, standing screaming and yelling in one audience as I saw there that night. People were crying.
At a drum corps show.
Yes.
They were.
Ask anyone.
Royalaires took the field in Arlington Heights and, following Cavaliers and Garfield, got the wildest, most sustained and emotionally connected response I'd seen since that Two-Seven performance 10 years earlier. It was absolute insanity. And it went on and on and ON!
St Joe's of Batavia, JUST THIS YEAR, and with only about 30 horns in Buffalo, NY, average age of 58, followed Vanguard (VANGUARD!), siezed the front sideline and turned the crowd at UB Stadium on its freakin' head.
IF YOU WERE THERE, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! The audience simply did not want them to stop.
What was going on? Didn't the crowd just see the most trained, most athletic, most artistic groups in the world? Didn't they just give a standing response to an phenominal display of modern drum corps? Absolutely, they did.
But for St. Joe's it was DIFFERENT!
Encore! Encore! They yelled.
They pleaded.
The audience literally extended their arms and reached for the corps.
And the corps, like a family member, like a piece of their flesh, kept reaching back...
...back to tradition,
...back to friendships,
...back to a time gone by when they all, too, could play and march, laugh and learn and love.
Watching St. Joe's was like being in a time machine. And it brought you back to one of the best times of your life...before the jobs and the kids...before some of the hard stuff.
No wonder we clapped so long and so loud.
For a couple of glorious minutes, watching St Joes and 27 and Chicago...we got to be kids again. :)
Artsy fartsy?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Color guard impact is best created with compressed geometric staging and large splashes of silk. The "wow" factor of a horn impact is increased 10 fold by a 20-member unison spin and toss, especially if the guard is isolated in the supporting "shape."
Ensemble volume accompanied by a punch of color and the tension that goes with releasing and catching equipment is that goose-bump-type moment that can't be matched.
That said, 11 minutes of "impact" would create a diminishing return.
Interpretive dance, IMO, can be phenominally effective, but it has its limits.
Phenominally effective is a solo dancer like Garfield 87...or like Suncoast 88....woven into the tapestry of the show. I'll extend this to the Phantom and Christine and even the girl with the "door". The mystery of those characters was hauntingly effective.
Less effective are known characters like Dorothy and the Wicked Witch where it becomes more comedy than mystery. Dragons and knights and circuses are almost always cheesy.
Guards that carry the theme, through perfect costuming and unison performance, but break into small group vignettes to emphasize story lines can also be supremely effective (Bluecoats; Homefront 1945).
What I've heard called "Jazz runs" are my personal pet peeve. Most often, it looks like kind of an overwraught free-for-all.
Jazzy "ensembles" like Spirit of Atlanta 85, Marauders 87 or Cadets 95 bring an "edge" and "attitude" to the table. That's VERY different.
Rifles spinning in front-facing unison with a 4-rev toss and catch? Always good.
Rifles doing anything else? Usually leaves me flat.
3-D stuff with extra stages on the field? Sometimes it works, sometimes it's clutter.
Using lumber and rubber tires? Um....no.