wishbonecav
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Posts posted by wishbonecav
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That isnt for you to decide. Killing it before it starts or deciding ahead of time that DCA is just some broke outfit is just plain wrong.
Municipalities support events. That is at a mayor/visitors bureau level. They just might trade a few more of those guaranteed hotel room nights and visitor taxes for a miles worth (and 45 minutes?) of mounties and patrols. Band boosters (invitees to my little parade) also have budgets.
DCA has a budget. They are in a position, as a cooperative, to make decisions. They produce events, rent facilities, prepare media pieces, support the website, create a program..there are sponsors and staff. OK...it costs money. Everything does. I&E runs at a loss. DCA makes up the difference in some way.
If "it costs money" is the event killer, let's not do DCA at all?
Vince figured out how to have a parade to drum up interest at just about every ICA event...and at DCA.
It certainly can be done. This has the benefit of having been done before.
Remember, POLICE DETAILS COST MONEY!
Even a 1 mile parade would cost thousands for police, ems, highway for street closer saw horses etc. This cost vs effect would probably kill a parade.
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The OP was ALL ABOUT SCORES.
Not once was there a mention of our placement or our score. Really. (see below)
You told the 25 year director of a DCA member corps to "clean his ears out" and that he had no clue. he asked for was civility and pointed the conversation in the right direction.
I sure did ask you in a PM to take a deep breath....and you decided to chime in again, game on.
Regardless... the name of the judges and their email address / phone number is available. Ask them yourself. the live version of XXX and XXXX is way above a tape in terms of feedback and a few pointers....and for more than "1 minute or so".
Its a solution, not a pound of flesh. I'm not sure which the OP would rather have.
And if its so much an effort "for the crowd", as mentioned in the last post, then SCORES shouldnt really matter anyway.
Is it not time to hold the Mini Corps judges accountable for their scores? Why are they not taped with info that we can use for next year? The Mass Brass scoresheets said, "great job", "aggressive charts" ect...and oh yeh, here's your score "you suck" (kinda refers to placement). What's that all about? Not a shred of information that could help us for next year...nothing. Our scores have been declining the last couple of years and we're not sure why and have been giving "0" feedback from the judges. If the judges don't want to be there or it is a major incovenience for them, then maybe DCA should find people that do want to be there. How long would it take to comment or give us feedback, 1 minute or so.....considering the amount of time and effort everyone puts into their shows, I don't think that's too much to ask. Time for a change, time for the judges to show a little respect for the performers that have worked hard all year for this show. All the Mini Corps deserve better! People were asking "where have all the Mini Corps gone?" simple.....Corps were getting their ##### handed to them and no one told them why, add that to the time and expense it takes to get on the field or stage and there's your answer, it's not worth the trouble. Unless the Judges can clean up their act and show a little respect for the Corps that are competing, the numbers will only get worse.
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Not everyone is broke or unenthusiastic. If 20 brass out of 50 show up, that's still a parade unit. With 20 horns, its still the Cabs Alumni corps. And if 20 of ours and 20 of yours show up and know/learn the same chart or two, that is also a marching unit. It doesnt have to be perfect...it just has to make a sound. The Edge is 20 Statesmen. And they dont spend time worrying about what they "arent", they take what they got and go turn people on. Prime Time, CADRE, Freelancers..potential parade unit, and so on.
I know its been dismissed as "merely an additional expense for the membership." I'm not sure its fair to speak for all at what an inconvenience it would be to have (or suggest) an additional performance and social opportunity.
I didnt use the word mandatory...but regardless....if none of the ideas for getting fannies in a seat or generating interest gets any support, then either suggest something that will or stop complaining about a lack of fannies in seats. There's always 100 reasons not to do something. All you need is one that is good enough to overcome inertia.
Think of the PAYING CUSTOMER FIRST. Would the paying customer (or POTENTIAL paying customer) draw a benefit from a parade? Good time? Reason to check it out at the Dock or Prelims? Sure. Would DCA draw a benefit in goodwill? Exposure? Coverage? Sure.
The first consideration in show business isnt always most convenient to the performer. And, please, dont predictably pick apart that remark. I'll repeat that i didnt use the word "mandatory". A parade on a volunteer basis that includes a few local HS bands and dignitaries.
Not hard. TV cameras and people show up. Win.
You're correct Liz. Many alumni corps aren't anywhere near complete until Saturday night. A Friday night parade would merely be an additional (major) expense for the membership - possible day off from work, additional hotel night, a couple of extra meals, etc.
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Can you find a seat at that table?
Good suggestions made so far. No matter what our ideas, it is essential DCA finds a formula next year that will take advantage of many more of those available seats. I believe they will.Careful handling of comp tickets CAN pay dividends. We used to distribute them to newspaper assignment editors, certain reporters, radio program directors and DJs. For both radio and television, we made minimal commercial buys and bartered blocks of comp tickets for additional free spots. We encouraged them to run even more of the same spots as public service announcements. They are required by law to run so many minutes of PSAs, and were glad to have the content.Again, DCA now has room to grow. Will it happen? -
Please look up the definition of "Rhetorical question"; its alphabetical before "sense of humor" and "submit a bid"; and after "nuanced communication".
You might want to also look for your picture under the words " " and " ". (inviting additional reader participation here)
Just having a little fun in our rapid fire repartee world. I'm good at parrying the p-a thing; i have plenty of practice with some of the other women in my life. :)
I read the rest. I commented on that which I wanted to
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Vince got the Event on the Local TV news...not the 6 & 11 type news, but the loops-every-15-minutes news. The drum corps....the drum corps...the drum corps..... constant.
the DCA Parade was another attempt at getting the word out. It worked in ICA, too.
A Pre-Labor Day parade with the corps is still a cool idea. Every newspaper would carry the announcement and the un-attached mini's (Freelancers, Orlando) and Alumni Corps could certainly haul the mail. How about a 1 mile parade to the Friday night festivities?
(here come the tomatoes...Yikes!)
2 Questions:
Was the championship weekend advertised on local TV? If not, why?
Does DCA get a percentage of the concessions at the stadium?
You will not get locals into the stadium to see our product unless you TELL THEM ABOUT IT!
I saw NOTHING about the event on the local stations in Annapolis. A live feed from the stadium on Friday evening during the mini's would have brought people in for prelims, and that may have filled out sales for finals.
CONCESSIONS IS WHERE YOU MAKE YOUR MONEY! A 20% return to DCA from the stadium concessions would certainly help the bottom line. In some instances the organizers may have to provide some help at the concessions, but there is adequate time to recruit volunteers. OR it may be possible to word the contract for the venue to allow for 2 or 3 outside venders that will pay the 20%.
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YOU COULDNT RESIST!!!!!
(did you read the rest or stop at your name??)
oh I understand why they did it. but yes it did suck. even judges complained
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A guy goes into a bar....
Many people in the bar are idiots....
So the guy goes to another bar.
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9,600 in '96...biggest since Allentown and hasnt been topped since. Not close.
(Ream, we already know you and many others hated the configuration...fans and marching members alike....that was a decision based on overwhelming demand and made in real time...Vince made a tough proposal and it was a tough call (excruciating); it was still pretty loud in there....and 0.1 is your most important number from that day, anyway, not 9,600...regardless, I know you won't be able to help yourself
)Already suggested elsewhere by me: Comps at the Dock show for any prelim seat outside the 20's with the option to upgrade at the window between the 20 and 30; Inside the 30's, face (for example).
Pre-sales are an opportunity: that's a charitable description. that effort has to be launched today and every day. The excuse about the ticketing framework (the "old way") is now gone with DCI's ticketing system as the clearinghouse (thank God). It runs 24-7 and so too should the technology effort to reach our data base.
Speaking of data base, there is an opportunity there that is under-developed to this point as well. It will involve more of a buy in (and perhaps a smidgen of discomfort) from all the corps - Open, A, Alumni - everyone.
Saturday is still a huge opportunity. It doesnt interfere with Labor Day plans and it is a half-step to the product for those who arent fanatics but still maintain a casual interest. Start times for the casual fan have to be delineated more clearly....a show that runs 2pm to 10pm is a big commitment. A show that is advertised as 6 to 10pm with emphasis on the Open COrps is more manageable as an entertainment choice for the "less than fully initiated". A-corps may object to that comment, of course.
The balancing act is more fannies versus cheapening the product with reduced pricing. The fans that typically spend a few extra bucks may just wait for the discount. And a cheap seat adjacent to a full price ducat (across the aisle) tends to tick people off. The clown 4 feet away got as good a seat for half the price, for example.
Inside the 35's or 40's is sacred ground. If i saw a full section of comps outside the 20's, i wouldnt be too ticked. From the 20-30, knowing they sprang for a few extra coins....that would be ok, too, IMO.
brainstorm1: two printable comp tickets to anyone on the DCA mailing list for a free general admission for 2 to prelims, outside the 20's, upgradeable at the stadium. Come to DCA FREE is a pretty strong invitation. WHat you do once you get there is up to you (like Fred said, parking, programs, merchandise, upgrade, buy a Finals ticket, etc).
Brainstorm2: select corps have a "mini-show" if they have adjacent practice sites; Friay night? Saturday during the day? 2 corps, in practice gear, head-to-head at a certain time, social media invites, almost like an underground event; did this in '94 with Empire versus Metro. small souvie booth open at the site,
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There is a small minority, called a "niche", of people that actually would pay to see a drum corps show. While many hours are spent trying to convert the unconverted, some could say the same amount of time is spent taking our familiar, repeat, paying customers for granted.
Sincere question: When's the last time, or at what show did you attend, where someone said "thank you" for coming tonight? Or greeted you with a warm smile (not a "I'm volunteering to take tickets tonight" smile, but a "i'm in charge here and I am so pleased you came" and i recognize you from the last time smile)?
Here is one of mine: Rome, NY at Drums Along the Mohawk. It never fails.
answer #2: Boston. familiar faces all around and a certain glad you could make it friendliness. Yes, in Mass. There, I said it. And the emcee makes it like you are a part of his family. Not an easy trick. Cant live without it.
answer #3: Bridgeport. Where the people in charge said, the heck with it....$5 bucks gets you through the gate, now lets have fun like we stole somethin'.
answer #4: Kingston. No doubt who the hosts are, and the stars take time to mingle. Not too busy thinking of themselves to remember who's contribution hauls the mail.
Cultivate an audience and they will come back year after year after year. I dont think its a coincidence that the Cabs are a little over represented on my list. That whole "for you!" thing is more than hype.
FYI: If the marquee said "Drum & Bugle Corps Alumni Show Starring: Hawthorne Caballeros, Bayonne Bridgemen, Connecticut Hurricanes, Boston Crusaders, Park City Pride, New York Skyliners and Toronto Optimists," call me crazy, but that would be a pretty compelling reason for many of our fans to part with $15. If you held it in Bridgeport or any of these places, I bet the fanny-in-seat count would be about the same. (until the Cabs did Flamenco Cha Cha, then, of course, the fanny in seat count would be zero).
If the customer is jazzed, then we/you/the corps/dca did their job. Everything else is second layer stuff. Important? Trivial? that can all be debated. But the customer either bought it, connected, got excited in some strong enough way to come back again, or they didnt.
And all the lineups in the world cant substitute for making someone - especially the paying customer - feel important, valued and as if they came first.
They can tell when they did. And they can tell when they didnt.
How do we reach them in a personal way? Send the corps up from retreat to shake hands and say thank you? It would be unforgettable. Host corps or all of them, who really cares! Get them up there. Up in the stands. Thank you. Please come again next year. Impromptu concert in the stands. All that same-old, same-old crap be danmed. Throw OUT the retreat. Kick the chair. Do something DIFFERENT.
Stop fighting amongst yourselves and look up. There's an audience there that doesnt care about this drama...they just want their money's worth. If they stopped showing up...ITS NOT THEIR FAULT.
Harrisburg ran the mini show up until their next to last show. Larry brought the mini's in to draw more people for the Sat. Night show and that couldn't save it. Should I be like you and say that nobody would pay to see "Alumni Corps"? Fact of the matter is, Drum Corps in general does not draw like it use to and most people can't afford to go see it. With the line-up that Larry use to put out year in and year out and the Show still couldn't survive....doesn't that tell you anything? Do you think the "Alumni Spectacular" would even exist if it were not sandwiched between the Semi's and the Finals of Championship weekend? My point is, that the majority of people would not pay to see any type of Drum Corps, not just Mini's
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And around and around we go.
Sign on the hamster wheel: JUMP OFF HERE!
Done
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If I were one of the judges, or the one who assigned them, this would be a tough pill for me to swallow.
Which "CORPS" (plural) got their butt handed to them? Speaking in general for all for the concerns and complaints of the few is not a fair approach.
Mass Brass seems to have a problem and a few members seem to believe that the judges thought they "sucked" or that they were underscored.
So what good is a tape? Truly.
Would taped comments change the outcome or become more fodder for those who already have their mind made up on the situation? My opinion is that a tape supporting their comments ("great job", "aggressive charts" and score/placement) would only be the centerpiece for additional scrutiny and derision if the number on the paper didnt match the member's opinion of themselves - "oh that's BULLSHTI!...this guy doesnt have a CLUE!" - and so forth.
The original post calls out the judges as unaccountable, disinterested, disrespectful, incompetent and with an axe to grind. If only they made tapes, then we could "understand" why they were all these things? Please.
I dont see that as a roundtable conversation with mutual respect and nodding heads among cool and collected persons. Especially if it STARTS by ascribing these attributes to the adjudicators and leaving them in a position to either prove a negative or attempt to sway people whose mind is already made up.
I see the comments and the score and the audience response as plenty of feedback. I also see the feedback from this group as something to be reckoned with as well.
This isnt a plea for understanding. It's sour grapes, just like JAM said. Why didnt we win? Or place higher? "Our scores"...blah blah blah. If between now and DCA 2013 (350 days) you cant get some feedback, through DCA or sending a note to Rich or Bob, then shame on you. I dont know if i was just called a bunch of names in public if I'd be too interested in helping out. Regardless, this has been fermenting over years of "declining scores" so maybe that call or email should have been made long ago.
We've been down this road before. And if the contest part has taken the place of the fun to the point where this kind of negativity surrounds it, it's time to go back down the road towards fun. If that's "not worth the trouble" then that is a decision each of the groups can make on their own.
Someone thinks they "deserved better." I think the judges who volunteered their time and expertise deserved better than to be told to "clean up their act and show a little respect".
It's mini-corps, for God sake....a fun event among family and friends. If this is really what it's come down to then maybe we give in to the weight of negativity and decide not to have it at all.
Is it not time to hold the Mini Corps judges accountable for their scores? Why are they not taped with info that we can use for next year? The Mass Brass scoresheets said, "great job", "aggressive charts" ect...and oh yeh, here's your score "you suck". What's that all about? Not a shred of information that could help us for next year...nothing. Our scores have been declining the last couple of years and we're not sure why and have been giving "0" feedback from the judges. If the judges don't want to be there or it is a major incovenience for them, then maybe DCA should find people that do want to be there. How long would it take to comment or give us feedback, 1 minute or so.....considering the amount of time and effort everyone puts into their shows, I don't think that's too much to ask. Time for a change, time for the judges to show a little respect for the performers that have worked hard all year for this show. All the Mini Corps deserve better! People were asking "where have all the Mini Corps gone?" simple.....Corps were getting their ##### handed to them and no one told them why, add that to the time and expense it takes to get on the field or stage and there's your answer, it's not worth the trouble. Unless the Judges can clean up their act and show a little respect for the Corps that are competing, the numbers will only get worse.
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Between the remnants of Crusaders, Brigadiers and Bushwackers...can a couple calls be made?
We got two empty bingo halls, a $12k current debt, a set of horns, about 65 marchers and 3 sets of alumni.
Dig deep, merge the corps operations, have Dave Keck start the recruiting drive (that is the only guarantee of results on this page), have practice halfway in Saratoga Springs and call it Avant Garde.
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And its "Bushwackers.."
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Could you kindly define the parameters, amounts, actual deadlines and progress?
The original post is a plea, but its vague and is hard to reconcile with Dave's post.
Unless, of course, Dave is a persona that interjected himself into the conversation while making up a pretty compelling story.
Given that there were no denials of fact, its VERY HARD to absorb a de facto plea without being able to ask for and receive clarification.
I'd ask my daughter for more information on a $100 loan and expect to receive it.
We don’t think a proper debate can occur on a public forum such as this, and therefore will respectfully not affirm or deny any allegations made by the creditor or others on DCP. That is for the lawyers and courts, or at least a discussion elsewhere.
The point of this thread is that a 30-year old corps needs help and is asking the public for the first time in its history. Many have already stepped in and offered what they could, and we are hoping that others follow suit.
What we ask is that this thread stay on course with its original intent of asking people for donations. The more people donate, the more it helps save the corps, and the quicker it gets the creditor paid.
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DCA I&E Mini Corps judging
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by wishbonecav
I'll clarify....scores shouldnt matter THIS MUCH (as if i hadnt already made the point, regardless the soccer/participation retort)
My solution to keeping it a contest was very clear: Announce the winner. Simple.
If you have another suggestion, make it.
What a shame that the best performance opportunities of the year for the Mini corps and Alumni are dismissed as a placated effort to soak people for their Prelims and Finals money. That kind of talk is a disgrace.
You feel used? If that's the case...if that's the consensus, then the DCA people have a heck of an easier time of it in 2013. Cancel I&E, mini-corps and Alumni....those "placated efforts" are obviuosly not appreciated by this crew that thinks its ok to speak for everyone. Who do you think you are?
i tried to offer some solutions and ideas in a forum where minds were made up long before i arrived. That, i guess, was my bad. You cats can fight amongst yourselves.
(and if you dont care to talk with me at DCA, that's cool...Jay and I can hang out for the day....he's a pretty stimulating conversation, once he "cleans his ears out", of course.) We'll invite Keith, too. While you guys mope around, we'll have a grand old time. Front and center at mini-corps, alumni, prelims and finals.
My handicap in this discussion is the need to make sense.