wishbonecav
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Posts posted by wishbonecav
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Not a reciprocal situation. No home-and-home reciprocity there. It is a shorter trip up 95 from "the radius" than it is from anywhere else. Further from Carolina, New York, Atlanta or Minnesota, too. Not apples and apples. (saw that one coming
)I thought that Cabs went to Lawrence, MA last year and the year before along with Bucs? I could be wrong.
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Cabs (for example) in 2004 went to Waverly, Hershey, Endicott and Syracuse.
In 2005-2008 they went to either Rochester or Syracuse in addition to DCA.
Since 2008, they havent been outside the radius even once in a complementary situation (other than DCA).
That's a long time.
The variation is the corps' willingness to support home-and-home reciprocity.
Given the ROCK that is the Rochester/Batavia/Syracuse/Ontario drum corps audience, there is no reason that Rochester or Syracuse should not be hosting a July showcase-type show in either Rhino Stadium or MacArthur where as many corps as possible show up and split the gate (with a subsidy for distance traveled), especially since the Finals are now in Maryland.
Scranton gets this gig every year in August. A third DCA showcase event is not unreasonable, especially as a reciprocal situation. The support matrix (especially with GRVA) is already in place. And its not unreasonable, either, to expect success.
Regardless, I am going to win the prediction pool tomorrow. Mark it down.
there have been variations on this theme forever. I mean it was only the early 90's that Westshore was the corps furthest West in PA when Steel City went down.
could corps travel/ Sure, if it makes sense. I know some corps took a gamble on the Winston Salem thing. How'd that work out?
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I guess the point is that Empire is now in a similar situation to everyone else outside they NY-NJ-PA radius.
They are at a similar competitive and financial disadvantage: no shows and no partner corps near them, the need to travel just to get a contest or evaluation, and no real return-the-favor give back by the NY-NJ-PA corps to level it out.
The only Open Corps from the NE that traveled outside "the radius" this season were Fusion (to Virginia) and Cadets2 (to Hornell). Carolina traveled inside the radius from the Carolinas THREE times....do you think the Bucs, Hurcs, Cabs could have done the same once between them?
This is a tough question...but not one that really requires more than a shrug and a "why would they bother?"
DCA is now the Far East(Bucs, Cabs, Hurricanes, Cadets2, Fusion, Bushwackers, Windsor, Sunrisers, Cabs Alumni, Bridgemen) and everyone else, and "everyone else" needs the shows in the Far East more than the shows in the Far East need them.
So far, the other corps (MBI, Renegades, CV, Kilts, etc) have figured something out. Empire is adjusting on the fly. What that means competitively will bear itself out.
TO THAT END:
Saturday Prelims
1. Bucs 96.6
2. Caballeros 95.1
3. Hurricanes 94.7
4. Minnesota Brass 94.4
5. Cadets2 92.4
6. Kidsgrove Scouts 92.2
7. Renegades 89.9
8. Empire Statesmen 89.3
9. Corps Vets 87.3
10. Fusion Core 85.1
11. Kilties 83.8
12. Bushwackers 81.0
mark it down :)
Joe Caballero
I applaude those CV members being that dedicated to drive that distance to attend rehearsal.
On our end, Carolina Gold routinely drives 400+ miles to compete. The shortest distance for us has been Nokesville, VA which was still 250 miles from Greensboro.
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If its ok with you, I'll be using the Spanish version of my last name from now until Sunday night. Jimmy knows the story of how/why my mom got me into drum corps back in '79. It had everything to do with him and the Cabs.
Go get, 'em Sunday morning.
Joe Caballero
Thanks for posting this! That year (2009) we had not finished the drill in time for the Grand Prix. With the the closing drill, 'Flamenco' was/is even better!
Both Jeff Ream and Big W are both fans who are very generous in their reviews and praise of our corps, and they are right, we do it for the pure enjoyment, not to compete. We are proud to take the field as representatives of the Hawthorne tradition. Crowds at the shows demonstrate their appreciation of what we do each time we appear. Just as Big W explains with the Indy Cars metaphor, I like to think of ourselves as a sort of 'living history' -- and the people enjoy it.
That pride in what we do will be on the field again this Sunday at the Alumni Spectacular. I hope you are able to catch our performance live, and come by to say hello.
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I am a stone's throw from Tampa.
Perhaps a better forum is a sandwich board (that plays video) outside the Republican National Convention?
this is the wrong forum. everyone here knows alumni.
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Get to mini-corps on Friday!
I also recommend you actually come in and watch everyone if you're there Saturday.
There's some good shows you'll miss if you're lot crawling.
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We are the choir.
I was hoping my little old post was worth a click through or two from a few in the congregation who might not have yet seen the light
Joe, the Cabs Alumni still do Flamenco Cha-Cha, and killed the crowd at Scranton last year and this year. You been readin' my reviews? They certainly answer that question.
When they bring the old Watson Roadsters to Indy Car races and run them in exhibition, the crowd goes WILD. Same thing. An exciting piece of history and fun they can see, hear, and appreciate in a way videos and books can't entirely explain.
Jeff and I know the whole Alumni thing. It's a way we can still play a little, try and bring some excitement and joy to the audience, and not break our wallets in the process and still have time for other stuff. Compete? When I have the time, job that allows it, and $$$. A serious difference.
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it is pretty ridiculous
given that the Cabs alumni get rousing ovations everywhere they go, I think your question has been answered every time they hit the field.
Hell at some shows, they get a better reaction than the competing corps
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SHAMELESS! You go, JM
Believe it or not, I found a new way to jump my beer.
Come see what all the talk on the street is about, 5:35pm
DCA snare solo's YAH BABY!!!!
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The point of the post was "hold up with today's sophisticated drum corps crowd".
Not "hold up in competition", but meet the high falutin sensibilities of today's sometimes hyper-discriminating audience.
it was a tongue in cheek comment.
Old school or not, 190 beats a minute or not, symphonic ensemble or not, there's no way you could dismiss it, IMO.
I dont care if the top 10 dci corps were on the slate, the crowd...any crowd....would be throwing babies at the end....just like this one did. This material would not be out of place...in fact, it just might steal the show.
No scores required.
And let's not be too naive...this is no half baked attempt; the Caballeros Alumni dont don the sombrero to go out and just have fun. The point of Flamenco Cha Cha and Espana Cani is to put the horns up and go out and kick some as s.
I freakin' LOVE this video....and hope you clicked on it
Crazy Joe
But they don't want to compete! That was why St. Joe's started....get together, do drum corps without the hassle of competing. Show up, play, socialize and have fun!
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Would this show hold up in front of today's sophisticated drum corps crowd?
i'm thinking it would
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Cabs alumni, Wayne NJ, 2009 on you tube is a good example of turning people on....horns, drums, rifles, Jimmy Russo....and easy for a middle schooler to process. Loud, cool. standing o for 45 seconds before the last note of music is even played.
If i knew as a kid that i could be on a stage somewhere in the middle of the summer, basking in the glow of a standing ovation for a performance i just did with 100 of my closest friends.....and i'd get to feel that/do that again the next night and the next and the next....I'm thinking I'd be pretty interested in that.
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Ok, ok. Guns down. The Empire discussion was just that....a lively discussion; and i appreciated your points of view and enjoyed the dialogue, including the opportunity to respond with additional information.
It's this Hurcs comment...more specifically, the tag on the end of the comment...the damning with faint praise...that was really an unnecessary zing, IMO.
"Hurcs show is the best I've seen from them in years." Nice.
though it's barely passable and that's actually an improvement over prior years ("i actually enjoy it a little bit")?...not so nice.
see what I mean?
Thanks for the opportunity to provide an answer, and I'll ask you for a mulligan on my "play in traffic" post. It was also "not so nice."
Well, yeah - i'd agree with that. Hurcs show is the best I've seen from them it years...just based on the fact that I actually enjoy it a little bit
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And when they get there, they get a good nights sleep and travel a few miles to the show site. There isnt any place on the schedule they couldnt leave Hawthorne at 7:30am for and be on time for practice. Ok, maybe one. :)
Hawthorne to Rochester was a "holy crap, this trip sucks" kinda trip at 325 miles.
Imagine going from Hawthorne to Rochester every weekend? That would make the decision to march a little different, no?
We also have people coming from Canada too.. i believe its 9 hours.
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Not sure who you think you are, but the blanket insults and sarcasm? Why bother.
You know it all already, so there's no point in hanging out here. The DCI forums might be more your speed. We talk as friends here and sign our names. It's really more a place for grown ups.
Maybe you go do something else....there's got to be some traffic somewhere.
SORRY MODS...i know, i know....should have been a PM....you can erase it.....having a little fun at mr smart ###'es expense. He's like flounder
hahahahahahaha.
Well, yeah - i'd agree with that. Hurcs show is the best I've seen from them it years...just based on the fact that I actually enjoy it a little bit
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If you look at Tampa's last show in Braden (and all the scoring discussions on DCP assumed Thunder was 11th or 12th), then there is no real chasm anywhere down the Open Class list.
If Thunder was a non-finalist with that New World show then, pound-for-pound, this might be the best top to bottom slate since Kingston's big yellow corps took the 10th spot in '03. '07 could qualify here, too. Crusaders were a dam* good 10th and there was no shortage of good brass down the page (esp Bushwackers :)
The point gap between 5 and 6 is tighter than it has been the last couple of years.
With Empire/C2 and Scouts all lumped in the 5-7 bracket its my guess there will be a lot more fannies in the seats earlier than usual this year. In previous years peeps didn't start filling the stands hard till the top 5 went on.
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When the nearest show to you is 285 miles from home, that is a different decision than if its within a couple hours drive. To stay at home, find a performance opportunity, support a band program (Webster) that has been a source of members and talent for years and save the cost of putting the busses on the road just to get a score is not a real hard decision. The attendance at Reading would have been no different if ES was there (and the show sponsors saved the appearance fees, putting the additional net in their fundraiser win column).
I posted in another thread how Empire is all alone upstate. There are literally no DCA shows closer than 217 miles (Scranton) and NO DCI shows to latch on to. Renegades get more shows with the DCI circuit in their back yard (and on Saturdays and Sundays). Empire has had to create performance opportunities out of thin air while keeping the members interested - no small task. The Darien Lake thing keeps/expands their regional exposure. It's better than a marching band going to Epcot because it has some stickyness to it. And its 60 miles door to door.
DCI week is a traditional off week, so sending a contingent to Indy wasnt in conflict with any DCA sensibilities.
Empire has tough decisions to make in a landscape that is very different than a few years ago....no Crusaders show (in fact, no Crusaders), no Brigadiers show (and no Brigadiers), no weekend DCI shows (Buffalo, Erie, Rome on a Tuesday night just doesnt work), no hosting partners (Patriots, St Joe's, etc), fewer established shows (Hornell used DCA to sub for a fallout with DCI) and fewer corps willing to make the trek to Rochester - even once - because, frankly, they dont have to.
Performing your fieldshow at a DCI event near your hometown is not the same as taking an entire weekend late in the season to go do standstills and flashmobs at DCI finals in another part of the country for 3-4 days. They also stayed at an amusement part several times during the season, and they obviously did no competitions this weekend (opting for some kind of homeshow), while everyone else went out and got 1 or 2 scores.
So yeah - they can do what they want, and I'm sure they are still working their butts off to do well competitively. I dont really know the grand plan or mission of the group, but one thing is clear, this year especially - you can only stretch yourself so thin before the effects start to become noticable. To the naked eye, they dont really look much different than any other year, but i'm guessing they just lack that polish that comes from a group that performs a 10 minute show together a zillion times over the summer.
I'll be honest in that I haven't been very deeply involved in DCA until about 7-8 years ago, so maybe this kind of rehearsal schedule (or lack thereof) has been done before by a perennial top 3 corps - but thats just my take. Also seems like the have way more holes than usual, which has nothing to do with their schedule /this issue (hell, rehearsing less and taking more trips would make more people want to march, i would think)
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Right there with you, DA...word for word...even if it means taking a few eggs and tomatoes.
Empire never did anything half way. Or even 90-10. It was always all-in, all the time. The uniform represents excellence, entertainment, fearlessness and no-holds-barred.
Empire was always DCA's Muhammad Ali, its Apollo Creed...arrogant, confident, flag waving, fun, hated by some and loved at the same time, over the top with swagger and a big punch right behind it.
"If you can back it up, it aint braggin'" has worked for 28 years. It HAD to be great, first and foremost on the field, or else it would have just been dismissed as a windbag of hype with no substance. Only way to do that is to have everyone on the same page. The Statesmen aren't great because of the Edge. The Edge is great because of the Statesmen. And the name on the front of the jersey is a helluva lot more important than the one on the back.
And so forth.
I have a feeling that this is an important weekend for the corps; Friday and Saturday finding that "thing" we are talking about here. And I predict that Sunday night will have that Ali feel to it....they've done the rope a dope, taking a few punches during the season for sure...but they'll get it right...with a flair for the dramatic...and remind us who "the champ" is... and let it all hang out.
I really dont want to debate this with you or anyone else.
When I was in the corps we went to Sweden and Denmark over a whole week during the summer, we went to Bermuda, Barbados, Rio DeJaniero, performed for Kings, in race tracks, soccer stadiums, and so on. All of these things happened during seasons that we either A.) Won DCA, or B.) came a VERY close second to a superb Bushwackers corps. The corps went to England and came back in 1998 to win DCA. We did "flash mobs" before there was a term to describe what they were. We also had Power Zone, that was a smaller group that won the DCA title every year we competed.
I am truly hoping to motivate someone to understand that what they did this summer was not as unusual as it is made to seem. The difference I feel right now is that the will to compete to win is missing. Believe me, I know what I am posting is making some people mad. I am sure that I will hear about from someone. Hopefully it will motivate the corps I love the most of all of my drum corps experiences to accelerate their passion to compete at the highest level.
Donny
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That's a good drum corps.
Wow, guys and gals.
If anyone missed our performance this season, check it out here!
Oh and excuse the close ups. Heh.
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The season is 10 weeks long (June 30 to Sept 1) with the DCI week traditionally off.
A home show plus Scranton (Regional) plus DCA is 3/9 weeks.
There's 6 remaining weeks to go to the other guys' home show(s).
Hurcs (Barnum), Bucs (Reading show), Cabs (Grand Prix and Kingston) have well attended and well cultivated shows and audiences; regardless the lineup, they are really "good to go" so long as nobody folds and that gives all the NJ-PA corps 7/9 filled weeks without too much hassle.
Bush, Fusion, Sunrisers, Windsor, fit in that category, and add the Bayonne show for all makes it 8/9. Boston might be the "special" trip (9/9) and the Rochester show, for all the downstaters, is really a take-it-or-leave-it proposition.
Empire (Hornell show) is in a tough spot...all alone upstate with no other show within 285 miles. (217 to Scranton)
Brigs, Cru, St Joes, etc....corps that used to fill the dance card just aint there any more. It's pretty much "travel or punt" because the Statesmen need the shows more than the shows need the Statesmen. That was a hard sentence to type, but the crowds at Barnum, Reading and Kingston dont go up or down based on whether or not Empire shows up.
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Keep this dialogue going and see it through the eyes of the paying customer.
The WOW is what keeps you coming back.
Without the wow, we can appreciate effort all day....but just for the day...and look for other WOW options the same week next year.
WOW separates you from your money.
OK works if its your kid or free.
The Cabs and Bridgemen alums are WOW corps; So are the Mini-Corps (staged properly); perhaps a couple of underutilized resources.
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right on. thanks :)
I'll be recording...will get them both...
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Before the rumours fly:
Immediate Release
Due to the effects of Hurricane Isaac and with members from across the entire state of Florida, the Tampa bay Thunder is forced to make the hard decision not to attend DCA finals this year. While the storm is away from Florida we are all still dealing with school cancellations, work closures, tornado warnings, flooding and concerned parents. As of today we had 17 members express that they could not attend for a multitude of reasons related to the week being disrupted.
We wish all competitors at DCA World Championships a safe and successful journey! The Thunder would like to thank our families, friends and fans for supporting us this season and while we did not reach our competitive goals our membership was exposed to multiple performances, exhibitions and community events which are the backbone of establishing roots!
The 2013 Open House will be held November 24th and 25th at the Florida State Fairgrounds
in Tampa as we look for a record number of members auditioning for next summer. The Thunder is committed to providing DCA and DCA South a sound competitive and responsible organization for the long term future.
Band parents and kids in school are a different animal than over 18's. This is a reasonable note from reasonable people who are making a tough but reasonable decision with the youngest corps in all of DCA. Let's not drop the ball on an awesome season, put away a few shekels and put it all to good use in 2013.
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recap anyone?
DCA Annapolis Predictions
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by wishbonecav
Makes the point.... full plate, inside the zone with no need to really entertain anything else. They are really in a decent spot with the ability to say "no thanks" to much of anything else.
10 corps slates with a nice (almost guaranteed) draw.... and it's NOT a criticism of the Cabs. They happen to be in a yes/no position with no real obligation to anything but being the best organization they can be (first) and let DCA figure out the rest (second).