seinphan
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Posts posted by seinphan
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While I think the wording. is rather rude, I would push back against them measuring themselves against the best. If the best are in San Antonio and they're in Nowhere, Delaware, they're in fact measuring themselves (and scoring lower than) a few Open Class Corps.
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Tom Aungst being on tour hasn't hurt them either. The man knows how to clean an ensemble.
2010 Regiment won drums and were 6th place.
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Fred Sanford wasn't already in the WDCHOF???
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Paul Rennick said in an interview that the recent labor laws passed in California placed a huge financial burden on the corps.
I also spoke to an industry insider (who won't be named, but works for a major musical instrument provider to many DCI groups) and asked them the same question. "How has this law hurt SCV but Mandarins, BD, PacCrest, etc aren't effected by it?"
His response: "They ARE effected by it, they are hiding it better. They are in the same shape SCV is in but they are trying to fight thru it and hope for the best."
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Just throwing this out there....
With it becoming more and more difficult and more expensive to do business and run a non-profit in California, would the San Antonio Vanguard make sense? Professional sports teams have made a move before. Garfield is no longer the home of Cadets.
The Houston Mandarins?
The D/FW Blue Devils?
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5 minutes ago, mjoakes said:
I'm sad about SCV. They'll recover as smart people eventually help make key decisions. Or they won't, and drum corps will still go on without them. Maybe changed. Maybe not.
Some of you probably will be able to add to this, but I'm kind of trained to ignore the talk of more shoes to drop or last days of DCI. The Cadets and Hopkins scandal was going to explode across other corps, too, possibly bringing down DCI as we know it. Then the pandemic was going to be the end of DCI as we know it. Now finances at SCV is another canary in a coal mine.
There are some interesting perspectives to consider from these 51 pages. But much unhelpful drama to wade through.
I heard in 89, "if you're ever gonna march, you better do it quick. DCI won't be a thing in 10 years."
I marched in 97 and heard staff members from other corps telling each other "we're lucky to still be here. This whole thing will be done in 10 years."
I think "DCI won't exist in 10 years" is a perpetual rallying cry for the gloom and doomers.
I do love SCV. More often than not, they have my favorite show every season. Sadly, if DCI can keep marching on without 27, Bayonne, Suncoast, Glassmen, Freelancers, Guardsmen, Sky Ryders, Magic, DeLaSalle and too many others to list, they can keep on going without SCV.
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13 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:
You are defending folks whose work speaks for itself. Indeed, the alum who marched with the Rennicks are just as worthy of belonging as any other. But the Rennicks don't need defending and should, like everyone else, be subject to criticism. Did they single-handledly cause the fall of Vanguard? No. Of course not. But they were part of the ecosystem and thus, again, open to criticism. Winning may be fun, and we did a lot of that throughout the years. But it's not what defines us... and some of us get scritchy when fans equate the winning with our identity. Doing so denies those of us that didn't win our identity... and feeds short-lived, fair-weather fans who aren't committed to sustaining the organization long-term. It's hardly all on the fans either... but again they're a crucial part of the ecosystem that can make or break sustainability.
And as I hope you can tell, sustaining the organization long-term has now finally reared its ugly head as a critical problem.
Plenty of folks (in this thread alone) are happy to see the Rennicks and our vets in other corps, which also makes me sad. How quickly some of you move on. Rennicks go to Troop. Our vets are being courted by so many corps (as it should be, but it's still sad.) Even I offered that I'd like to see Murray and Jim back but that's a pipe dream coming from a detached alum who knows very little about the nuance that led them to leave and for the corps to ultimately go on hiatus. It wasn't meant to be taken seriously so apologies if I led some to believe otherwise.
And your attempt to play "gotcha" with alum who are still grieving is unbecoming. At a certain point it feels antagonizing... which surely isn't your goal right now, right? Not 36 hours after the news breaks... right?
Alum deserve the space to criticize the whole operation now. I guarantee that it can't be revitalized without us. I certainly welcome pushback from anyone where, but please be respectful to the alum whose shoulders the Rennicks are standing on.
Just a reminder: I didn't bring Paul, Sandy or Michael Gaines into this discussion. I'm just pointing out that it's wrong to single them out in this. They were hired to do a job and they did it. They did it very well. Unless the financial management of SCV is in their contract, thus their responsibility, it might be time to move on from the "blame the percussion writers" phase of this thread.
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The health and strength of an organization isn't judged by its trophies (as anyone who marched from 2000-2017 will tell you).....
2000-2017, which includes several Rennick years. Glad to see he's included in the lexicon👍
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14 hours ago, MarimbaManiac said:
Thanks for your opinion, but I was there to watch first hand while they torpedoed the relationship with the cadet corps and the local community. Not to mention running Vanguard winter percussion into the ground in a few short seasons. They have no interest in the bay area community, nor the SCV traditions that created the platform that they stand on top of. They made it very clear that they didn't consider the cadet corps as part of the same organization and it's led to them having no footprint in the bay.
Again, blaming them for everything isn't fair either, but their hands are NOT clean.
You clearly have an axe to grind with the Rennick's, so I'm gonna let you grind it (if that makes you feel better). I don't think this whole thing can be laid at any designer or staff members feet, nor can it be laid at any one directors feet. I think that each of the last 5 directors walked into a worse situation than the previous one did and it finally became too much to fix.
But, hey, let's blame the Rennick's and the pile of trophies they brought to SCV.
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27 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:
It's really not that difficult to connect those dots.
Rennicks come in and cut the recruiting ties with the Cadets corps, instead choosing to focus on recruitment in Texas -> This cuts the legs off of their local support system, meaning fewer students from the area, fewer volunteers working bingo, fewer family, friends, acquaintances supporting the organization through donations and bingo business -> It also requires a significant investment in having camps in Texas, causing huge up front costs to the organization instead of basically FREE camps at the corps hall -> This increases housing, fuel, staff, food costs exponentially because the brass and percussion are rehearsing separately (twice the camps), but becomes a necessary expense because they no longer have a local recruiting system to fall back on -> Operating costs shoot through the roof because they are overextending themselves with a footprint that extends to two states -> SCV folds.
Is it fair to put all of the blame on them? No, but they are absolutely a contributing factor, and their arrogance has alienated generations of alumni and decimated their local support system. They do not have clean hands.
Boston, Spirit, Blue Knights and too many other corps to mention have satellite camps in Texas and other states that are not their "home" state. This isn't a novel idea that only SCV uses and they weren't the first to do this. Texas has an enormous amount of talent and to not try to tap into that would be foolish. Even if Paul and Sandy were running the drumline this way and routinely finishing in the 5-10 range, they still wouldn't be to blame for this. To have the run they've had in percussion is something that SCV hasn't done since the 70's. Did Ralph, Scott and Jim win a Sanford? Yes. Did any of them have the sustained runs of top 2 finishes? No. What they do clearly works.
I've met Paul and Sandy. I wouldn't call them friends, we've literally only met once or twice. They were both very friendly and the multitude of people that I know who have known them for years have nothing but positive things to say about them as people and teachers.
Again, SCV isn't folding because of Paul and Sandy Rennick.
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I have many, many friends that have marched percussion for SCV from the late 80's thru the early 2000's. Lots of people from the South-Alabama, Tennessee, a lot from Texas. Paul and Sandy have done nothing but put Jonz back where they should be. Back where Fred, Ralph, Scott, Jim-n-Murray had them for each of their respective tenures.
People can bash the Rennicks and complain all they want, but you can't connect the dots from "the Rennicks are from Denton" all the way to "SCV takes a year off."
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57 minutes ago, mingusmonk said:
By his own words, the previous director was cherry-picking only one story/reason for Tom's firing with no supporting details. And, as one would suspect, his post was entirely self-serving. Nonsense to consider it helpful to this thread.
Can you please screenshot or copy his post?
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Blue Knights need major changes. That show was way too hard for them and it just didn't work. At all.
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1978-PR
1979-BD
1980-Spirit
1981-SCV
1982-BD
1983-Gahfield
1984-Gahfield
1985-SCV
1986-BD
1987-SCV
1988-BD
1989-PR
1990-CBC
1991-Star
1992-Cavies
1993-CBC
1994-BD
1995-BD
1996-PR
1997-SCV-not even close for me. That show was amazing.
1998-Cadets
1999-SCV
2000-Cadets
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Just a thought to consider. Texas has what's called the "8 hour rule" which limits the amount of rehearsals you can have outside of the school to 8hrs for the calendar week. Monday-Sunday, 8 hours TOTAL rehearsal time allowed outside of the school day.
Groups like Marcus, LD Bell, Duncanville, Westfield, Spring, Vandegrift, Reagan, Leander, Cedar Park, Johnson, Churchill (I'm just trying to think of the groups that have attended and placed well at BOA Grand Nationals in the past). These groups have done what they've done in significantly less time than the groups they are competing against nationwide.
IMO, if BOA ever decided to move Grand Nationals to Dallas, San Antonio or Houston, we would see a SIGNIFICANTLY different finals line up and several groups that are perennial finalists would be done on Friday. The actual Grand Nationals takes place in San Antonio the week before.It's an amazing line up of bands.
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I marched BK in 97. Fun summer! There have been several marching bands take musical ideas from our show that summer.
I remember the first show we had with SCV. Boise IIRC. I remember thinking “they’re back!” I absolutely love that show! Everything about it is awesome. The drum writing and performance of the Casella/Gusseck era was in full force. Those guys were good!The opening statement from Cadets hornline and that drumline was jammin. Another show that I loved watching all summer.
BD was killing it right from the start. You just had a feeling that they weren’t going to be stopped. Those guys were so freaking good.
Crossmen were so much fun and Hannum has that drumline rocking too.
We went back and forth with Gmen all summer. They had a really nice show that was the start of an upward trend that ultimately landed them in the top 5 a few years later.
Bloo had a fun show. We saw them a few times that summer.... Crown played Terpsichore.... Spirit had updated arrangements of all the Ott classics.... Colts had a fun show....
We were somewhere in IL and were sharing a housing site with a small corps that I don’t remember. I only remember that their dads were smoking brisket and BBQ’ing for their kids and my mouth was watering all day lol BK fed is well, no complaints, but they weren’t smoking briskets for us!Ahhhhh fun memories of rooking out in 97!
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Wasn't 1988 BD undefeated until finals night when the strange performance order draw cost them the title to Scouts?
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IMO, with the exception of SCV, the execution of the battery has declined since all of the body work and scripted, contrived over emoting has become the norm. The kids are performing drum books that have little to do with the actual overall musical package much of the time and with the drum judge now farther away, the attention to detail and focus on rhythmic clarity with even further diminish.
I don't want to go back to a time where the drumline mowed the 50, but getting back to a time where the focus was on playing the drum and creating music rather than creating a body move with a funny face while simply playing noise that someone wrote for no musical purpose would be a step in the right direction.
I love the fact that the one group who is unapologetically "music first" has been dominating this ridiculous era of acting over drumming. Watching a drumline groove to 8's? EIGHT ON A HAND? Really? Not to mention, most of the parts that are intended to "groove" really don't actually groove. Bridgemen grooved. Hard. The Thurston XMen lines grooved. They grooved hard. I haven't heard a drumline play a phrase that threw down and grooved since SCV RamRod IMO. The current SCV is a clean, musical machine but the music, appropriately so, doesn't groove because the music doesn't call for it.
Sure, the kids these days are indeed playing harder and harder books than ever before. Are the executing these books as clean as ever? No, not even close. Are the books they are being asked to perform contributing positively to the overall musical picture? IMO, no. I always ask myself, would Stevie Wonder dig it? Would Stevie Wonder be able to sit and listen to this stuff and be musically intrigued without the dancing around and scripted, contrived facial emoting? I seriously doubt it.
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My first choice would be '03 SCV, but that's another topic altogether. DCI might not ever see a drumline play with the aggression and musicality of '03 and '04 Vanguard. Jim Casella's beats with Murray's approach was simply amazing. I am a Rennick fan as well, but I'd give any amount of money to see '03 and '04 Jonz in the lot just one more time. Those guys brought it.
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Just got back from Bones' rehearsal in San Antonio. They ended the evening with the first full run of the season (closer drill is 5-6 hours old!). I am not about to make any predictions about placement, it would be dumb to do so. BUT, these guys sound like a drum corps again. Chuck's brass writing is great. Lots of stuff going on, not so "one dimensional" as the past few years. Beddis and Markworth have that drumline groovin again (thank God) and Rudy Gowern and his staff have done a GREAT job with the drumline. I've gone to check out rehearsal each year before they leave for tour. This is the only time since the move to TX that I haven't left feeling like I've been at a HS band rehearsal. The hornline can put out some SOUND and the drumline has some sweet beats. This will be a crowd pleaser, for sure.
Good job, so far, X-Men!!!
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Rennick did a short stint at Sky Ryders and then went to VK and had some killer lines there with Float. He took 96-97 off and was at Crown starting in 98.
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Let's not forget the hornlines that Jason produced at BK from 96-01. Jason is a quality hire for sure. If they can get someone good to head up the drumline they will finally be relevant again
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it seems that both Ralph and BK were at their best when they were together.
Are we forgetting the fact that he was with SCV from 76-90? He wrote some of the most musically progressive (84, et al) and aggressive (86, 87, 89, 90 et al) drum books ever heard.
Something to ponder when thinking that he might be too "old school"....... Ralph writes MUSIC and is a #### fine musician, that never goes out of style. He will write an extremely musical and musically appropriate book. He will be relevant in the activity until the day he dies because he is a musician first.
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I generally watch battery warm ups in the lot. That is the one area they can't mess up too much. It's still kids with sticks and a drum.
As far as synths go..... It will (and is) cripple the creativity of the arrangers and eventually dumb the activity down to the point of being comical. 1991 SCV is a perfect example. HOW COOL was the helicopter effect?!?!?! I can only imagine how hard it must've been to clean that given the fact that they were in different areas of the field..... NOW, would I still remember that or even care about it if it were some kid holding a button? NO. Arrangers used to have to BE CREATIVE and find ways to makes brass, drums and keyboards make the desired sound. Now they don't think. If the wanted sound doesn't sound like brass, drums or a keyboard, sample it and move on.
Model Percussion Book?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by seinphan
auto-correct gone wrong
Anything by Hannum, Rennick or Hardimon.
AND, I really miss Jim and Murray in DCI.
All of the above wrote MUSIC for percussion that made the winds sound better. They resisted the "dig me" approach that sometimes permeates our activity. Their "music first" approach is one reason they stacked up so many trophies in their career.