phan771
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Posts posted by phan771
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Bluecoats over Devils. Love both, but as many have said, Bluecoats production is so seamless and constantly engaging every phrase of the show. Blue Devils are using too many of the same design devices they have used in past years so I loose interest at times. I am also extremely distracted by how many times Bluve Devils are done with a feature and most if not that entire group then runs off stage to the props or other area of the field. Those should be opportunities to develop those moments artistically and should not be a distraction.
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Good topic! Interesting. Had to add Fancy Regiment!
BLOO: Aesthetic=10, Intellectual=8, Emotional= 10
BD: Aesthetic=8, Intellectual=8, Emotional= 7
SCV: Aesthetic=6, Intellectual=8, Emotional= 6
CC: Aesthetic=8, Intellectual=8, Emotional= 8
BC: Aesthetic=8, Intellectual=8, Emotional= 8
CAVIES: Aesthetic=9, Intellectual=9, Emotional= 10
BK: Aesthetic=6, Intellectual=9, Emotional= 8
PR: Aesthetic=6, Intellectual=7, Emotional=9
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PR, you were great Saturday in SA. The crowd ate it up. Huge jump in performance and design compared to what came before. It is so hard these days to be top six, to move up competitively, please everyone, blah blah blah. Know you are loved and that most are pulling for you.
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14 hours ago, derbydawg said:
While I cannot pretend to know the stresses and time management involved in producing a show that is highly competitive in 2019, I do have enough time on the drum corps design and teaching clock to have some opinions as to what some corps need to do now in order to perhaps best elevate their shows knowing that such time for change, balanced with cleaning time, is now crucial.
What is your advice for certain corps?
My offerings:
BD: Make prop movement and uniform change produced and not perfunctory. Year after year of you doing this has gotten old, frustrating. Could be seen as ego-driven and not at all artistic.
SCV: Make the styles pop more, especially the funk/rock moments of your show. Add more moments that communicate emotion and not simply headiness and angst.
Bloo: Though nearly a seamless and super entertaining show, is there one more notch up at the end that uses some velocity and drive that makes a ring guaranteed?
Boston: The ending is the crux for me. The Goliath character and his death comes across as silly, and not a highly produced moment. It is hard to get past.
Crown: Bravo. A brilliant show from top to bottom. Stellar, actually. Checks all the current boxes. Is there room to add something that represents an attempt to push the activity forward?
Cavies: A clever show, well performed, that seems to need more visual variety and a bit of push toward innovation.
BK: This is a stunner. Best since 2015. Fix the balance issues between Front ensemble, battery, and brass and history will be made.
Cadets: Your drive is evident. The finesse and clarity of the show narrative is not. The new ending is better but not enough. "Do better" comes across as cliche and bando.
PR: Clean, Clean, Clean.
Crossmen: Your best offering in a long time. It is hard in 2019 to move up. Cleaning will help, especially on the percussion caption.
Mandarins: It's a good one. Your best showing ever. Moving up in 2019 is tough. The public hanging is in poor taste. Really poor taste. Comes across as an immature and shallow decision.
Blue Stars: Keep fighting in critique that your are super unique and fresh, yet accessible in the activity. Clean, Clean, Clean.
SOA: Cool show. Clean. Emote. Enjoy the experience. While making finals is possible, the overall summer experiences more important.
Thanks for starting this thread. I often feel like the audience, including DCPers and others in the community have great ideas as to how to make some shows better. I think it easy to get close to a project and find it difficult to always be objective or even come up with the right solutions for things that aren't working.
I agree with much of your list. I have seen most shows live and at risk of sounding cliche, it is yet again another year where the quality I indeed better than the previous year, with those not making finals being incredibly strong groups that would have made franks in many last years.
The only corps having a year not as good as last year, competitively, are few.
I would really like to see SCV take some risk and change more stuff than a team normally does at this point of the season. Back to back championships would be healthy for the activity IMO. Also hoping Bluecoats have something big up their sleeve that will push this brilliant show over the top.
Despite's what some seem to think, I find most corps to be very different from one another in style, approach, etc. The variety is awesome. I do wish that the entertainment value at the top stays approachable for most fans and not a minority. I like heady, intellectual shows, but rarely want to see them over and over again. I think the activity will continue to gain more new fans if they can "get the show" for the most part in one viewing.
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10 minutes ago, westcoastblue said:
Well, much to say about both quoted reactions, but I will try to keep it brief. Your assumption that I am a Baby Boomer is incorrect, unthoughtful, ill-timed, and deprecating of your intended assertion(s). I spend my career immersed with students aged 14–24. My interactions and outcomes in these regards are quite successful and internationally known. You misread that I was anti-Scouts; snap emotions and hate are strong deterrents to logic, calm, and open-mindedness. I love the Scouts and want to see them win DCI again, soon. The current members will be bombarded with questions all summer long regarding their reactions to the corps going co-ed. These questions will come from supporters, haters, family, friends, those informed as to the organization's history, those familiar with the inner workings of drum corps, those not familiar, etc. Speeches/talks have been given, and will be given to members at the start of show days and rehearsal days regarding the corps' future and the role the current members will play in this monumental turn of events (Some could see this as time waisted, delaying the corps from much needed changes and cleaning of the 2019 production). Over the course of the summer members will look at DCP and other social-based platforms, reading offerings that will stir their emotions, thought processes, and stances. The fact that this season could now be seen as a "place holder" or "transitional season" could diminish the value of every drop of sweat, strained muscle, and head and heart effort that each member of the 2019 Madison Scouts invests in this year's production. I do not think we can simply state that the 2019 members will not react negatively in any way to the "going co-ed" news. Yes, this generation is extremely resilient in many ways. Yes, they are much more inclusive and diverse in their views of humanity than previous generations. Yes, they are strong and open-minded unlike any generation before them. But, to assume they are not feeling, emotionally-driven, seeking-truth, needing perspective and at times feeling underneath strained-scrutiny and maturity as to what is right for the organization, right now and in the future, right for them in 2019, is shallow and greatly examples unawareness and insensitivity.
THIS!!! It seems that Scouts have long been inclusive and open-minded, but this fact does not negate that drum corps members of any generation do not have feelings, summer struggles, etc. All positive vibes to the 2019 Madison Scouts. KSA.
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6 minutes ago, tesmusic said:
We are. We suck at life. You’re right. I’m a piece of #### like the rest of us alums. Shame on us.
Well, sorry to offend and stereotype. It is simply extremely rare I meet an alumni that is positive about anything Madison since 1999. That said, I have met a few who are level headed, informed, and supporters of the current activity.
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1 minute ago, dcikon2 said:
I don't understand why many people keep putting blame on the alumni.
Have you read DCP since 2001? Sat by Madison alumni at a show? Know Madison alumni that you bump into from time to time? Not trying to be overly snarky, but Madison alumni are notoriously the most destructive and narrow-minded of all drum corp alumni I have ever known, and by a long shot.
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9 minutes ago, tedrick said:
How was Madison's show?
Difficult to watch. It is uninteresting and slow. You can tell they are trying to sell it. Just not a lot to sale. I think they would be more enjoyable as a stand still corps. Hate to be blunt. I assume this is what a lot of the alumni want. It pains me.
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I did not get to the stadium in time to see the first two groups. Sorry, Colt Cadets and River City Rhythm.
Madison Scouts: The uniforms look sharp but don't elevate the theme or vibe of the show. And like when PR came out in all white or all black, a singular color head to toe really exposes dirt, and Scouts unfortunately have a lot of that. There were a couple of times that the Madison machismo seemed to appear, but the show was pretty shaky for the most part and seemed really long. I do not get a theme, not that such is everything, but it might would have helped the corps do a better job of selling the production a just that, a production. Percussion seemed quite strong.
Colts: They really came out swinging. The theme is super clear and easy to follow. The best they have been in a while. Some transitions to work out and cleaning to do of course. I particularly liked the pacing and commitment to performance. Good job, Colts!
Phantom Regiment: I wasn't able to make it to SoS so I was eager to see the old team. They were really really really good and I am glad to see and hear that the rumors of their disaster of a show is anything but. Some really smart choices and great staging and pacing kept me plugged in the entire time. Clean this up and I cannot see it not making finals. The beginning needs to grab us better as does the end.Crossmen: They reminded me of PR in a way. Aggressive and trying to prove a point. I have not cared for them at all for a long long time. I enjoyed tonight a lot. The narrative is not so detailed that you get caught up in it. It is pretty clear. All sections seem fairly matched in talent and performance capabilities. It seems the ending works well. So is it a matter of changing, cleaning, or a combination of both?
Blue Stars: A whole notch up in performance and design from the previous groups. There is so much detail and nuance that one viewing is certainly not enough. They sound AMAZING and look about three weeks from being visually in control of this visual monster of a show. Just wow! Musical and exciting. This day and age they may end up in the same spot as last year, but with a better corps. Eager to see and hear it again and again.
As always, I will stick around tomorrow for a Fourth of July that only Cedarburg can provide.
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4 hours ago, fatbrassboy said:
PR alumni have offered help for many years, but have been turned away up until recently. PR has many professional musicians (principle at Met Opera, NOLA Philharmonic, Disney, DCI judge, music directors at universities, percussion heads, many in Commander's Own, etc.) Lots of opportunities there if only they were welcomed to contribute.
I get that you and others on this thread are trying to help make things better in an empathetic and caring way. While there is some logic to the thought that alumni that are highly successful in related fields could possibly help make design and instruction better through their own professional prowess, such is quite a slippery slope and by and large shown by similar past interventions, by successful alumni at other corps, to be a disaster. There are so many passionate drum corps fans, including those on DCP, that I do not wish to offend, but I regularly get the sense that most think the the design and competitive game is MUCH easier than it actually is. There are NO examples of designers out there that are overtly successful designing drum corps shows unless they are actively in "the business". Here's how "the business" looks in 2019: 1) The design team resume includes past successful drum corps design and instructional competitive success, 2) the design team resume includes BOA and state marching band competitive success, 3) the design team resume includes design and instructional success in WGI (at least two if not all three divisions), 4) the design team resume includes electronic and acoustic manipulation and design success, 5) the design team resume includes extensive experiences in the following: dance, theater, art music, visual art, and possibly architecture, etc., 6) The design team includes members with extensive judging experiences in BOA, WGI, state circuits, etc. Case in point: Madison Scouts hired alum, DCI judges, distant past instructors and thought all would be well.
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I must say the Madison vs Colts thing is a bit of a shock. Ready to see this recap. Don't get me wrong, I want everyone one to do well, but fairness is fairness. Penalty? Wrong numbers?
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I enjoyed the show, though the crowd seemed odd. Cannot quite put my finger on it.
My quick take (will do a full review later):
Colt Cadets: Didn't get to see them. Rushed home from work and to the stadium. Sorry.
Colts: A much improved design over past few years and lots of energy. Crowd really reacted to the huge sound and confidence.
Crossmen: Well, I was expecting them to be good, but not in this way. They have put on some big boy britches and are using a "take no prisoners" approach to their aggressive and highly entertaining show. I cannot imagine them not in finals, but it seems most everyone is stepping up.
Blue Stars: And again, a corps right out of the gate ready to impress and take it up a notch from last year. Holy horn line Batman. Cool theme, no pun intended. Eager to see it develop over the season. Their best corps in decades???
Madison: I wasn't sure what to expect. It was awkwardly rough. The no-uniform thing didn't help. It seemed to last for thirty minutes. The crowd was trying to get behind them, but it was tough. Some volume but no where near Colt's or Star's. Lots of overblowing and fundamental brass issues. Percussion seem to be their strength.
Crown: In an entirely different realm of design and quality. The visual program is stunning and only surpassed by the amazing brass and percussion. The uniforms look great in person. The voice-overs and theme are not quite communicating. That said, best they have been in a few.
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1 minute ago, yellvanguard said:2 minutes ago, yellvanguard said:10 minutes ago, westcoastblue said:
I must say I completely admit that I have posted emotional and "angry" posts in the past. I have matured since then, or at least that is what my girl friend tells me. And as we know, she is always right. It does crack me up to read "angry" posts- those where I can imagine the poster's red face, flailing demeanor, cursing while they type to another poster that they cannot have an opinion that is different than there own. It's one thing to disagree on the subjective, Crown versus Devils, Academy versus Spirit, but when it is simply people stating how they honestly feel about a single word or phrase that effects them in certain ways is fact and honesty. While a few of the posts questioning if the show title was the best decision, I find most posts in these regards to be professionally written questions and yes, a few that may come across to some as mild finger wagging. I read nothing that indicates anyone is anti-Cavies or not willing to see the show with an open mind as to the show's content and the reason for choosing the show title. All is good.
Your post made me so angry! How dare you try to be rational. Oh, don't think I don't get it you Blue Devil fan you. I love the Cavaliers so anything that has any negative slat at all is poop and stupid and dumb and the poster obviously has it out for the Green Machine. I am so mad my face is purple and I'm flailing so much I knocked my coffee over. Oh, and an eye just popped out. I did curse but quietly because the kids are still asleep. Argghhhhh! Okay, got my eye back in. Well any way, so there mister! BTW, you had some typos.
OMG. This made my morning. THANKS!
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1 hour ago, derbydawg said:
Not trying to start a controversy, but I have a legit question. I understand that "wrong side of the tracks" may have different connotations for different people, generations, cultures, etc. I also understand that for some there is a connection to Grand Theft Auto. Does the phrase not come from making a distinction between classes of people? Poor versus not-poor? Lesser people versus elevated people? Specifically, I know the phrase to indicate a racial divide. Not for one second do I think Cavaliers is trying to provoke negative social or class distinction feelings or behaviors, but I am curious is there was ever mention that the show title may be difficult for some to get past. Yes, they can show us through the production components what they think the production title means. Am I the only one having this reaction to the show title?
Not just you. I'm pretty shocked. Like you said, they can show it means over coming hard times, or a band hand dealt, or poverty, but all that still seems to some from what the title evokes, those "other" people, those ones over there that are lesser than us. Could not mean this at all and be a show about trains? Based on the video released, probably not.
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Though many seem to be doing so, I do not see this production as a modern day drum corp show, a sell out to be like everyone else show. It comes across to me like a BOA show from 10 or more years ago. If you told me the design team and admin aimed to design a show that reflected the style and aesthetics of the top 8 or so, I would say such was not the case. There was a time when I was more entertained by the top BOA bands than drum corps, but thanks to several corps and Cesario' s push for groups to be unique from one another, I think we are in the best years of design and performance since I have been following the activity (1981).
Crown is distinctly Crown, and similar with BD, SCV, Crossmen, Troop, Cavies, Cadets, BK, etc. Though some of these groups go through different designers, I feel that they each have a style and swagger to them that makes them unique, identifiable without the uniform.
Madison has time to make changes, improve, etc. I am all for the member's having a memorable and successful summer, in all the various ways such is defined.
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If crowd reaction is any indication, Scouts not close to reaction to Mandarins.
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So in the first 45 seconds Scouts have a major ensemble tear, several rough guard phrases, brass stick outs all over, and little to no crowd reaction. What's going on?
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SCV should win because the show is designed within an inch of its life. The corps is selling it well night after night. They have brought a newness to the activity that no one else if doing at this level this year. There is not one weak phrase visually or musically. Yes, the small ensemble is amazing, and so is the full horn line. The individual achievement is unmatched. Will take an undeniable performance, but they seem to have the stuff to bring it.
If asked which show represents where I wish the activity was headed- SCV, Bloo. Not bashing BD, see my opposing post, but their show is what they had been doing the last several years. It is amazing, but not fresh, new.
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I'll play too.
BD 's performance of this years show has a bigger than life feel about it. I am not sure I can find an exact word.
sure, all of these work to some degree: swagger, confidence, poise, professionalism, etc.
The sound of the corps overall is unmatched. They are strong in all captions. It is perhaps the final version of a formula that have been perfecting for several years now.
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17 hours ago, Cappybara said:
Doesn't the author violate his own rules? Half of his reasoning is in favor of SCV
Ummm, no. He has placed reasons for both corps. The point of the thread I believe. The rules do not say you cannot reasons for either corps regardless of who you think should win.
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13 hours ago, derbydawg said:
Great stuff tigger2. This topic is kind of being addressed in a couple of threads right now. The take here is pretty aligned with many of my own thoughts. I do think that some of the issues pointed out have been/are being addressed by some corps already. I would like to add that some corps have been performing and traveling much more frequently than others the past week or so. Doesn't seem fair but it is what it is. I assume all corps judiciously place rehearsal and change days throughout the summer. Those decisions made before the corps even competes for the first time could be super crucial.
I like the mention of the psychological stuff that goes on each summer. I will offer a few thoughts for the corps mentioned in the original post. I know what "assuming" is said to do for you and me, but any way, there are of course assumptions here:
BD: they're BD, so confidence and letting "stuff" get to them is probably rare
SCV: have a reputation for class, I don't think any thing gets them "down"/distracted for long
Crown: have defined confidence for the past six or more years, but perhaps the wintertime changes create some moments of question
Cavies: not sure here, last season was great, staying in that top six permanantly is tough
Cadets: seem to have been kicked the most in the off season, the early season success may carry them to the end, we will see how today goes and how the often constant juggling of places 6–10 during mid season pushes them mentally
BK: not sure here either, they're are sticking to their unique style and perhaps a strong independent psyche goes along with it
PR: for me, they have made the biggest metamorphosis this season, the show is ####### hard, they seem noticeably young, but some times diversity creates an unstop-able mental drive
Crossmen: the slow and steady rise may make for a less stressful summer compared to some in that they have entered top 12 and now stayed there, and do not look to be falling out this summer.
Bluestars: the recent changes may create a mental boost, we will see how positively they pan out
Academy: like winning and saying in first is really tough, making finals and saying in is really tough, especially these days. It is its own kind of pressure.
Boston: some pretty big changes and early season success has probably brought some positive mental vibes
Bluecoats: see Academy above- and consult Crown. That said, their age and on-field confidence seems to be setting a new standard
Madison: often known for their swagger, we have not seen it every year this past decade like we did in the 70s-90s. Like Troop, there does seem to be an underdog fight to them more often than not
Curious what alumni of these corps would say about their corps' ability to deal with the psychological aspects of the activity year in, year out. It would also be interesting to know some people's insight as to how a corps mental psyche may maintain year to year, though there are staff changes, some times a lot of them.
First, I at first thought this was the poster's prediction order. Not sure why in this order unless based on the order in which he saw videos. Tigger2?
As others have mentioned, the days of big jumps from start of season to end of season are probably long gone. I think this is due to better teaching, better planning, more ideas sharing, kids coming to corps with more training, etc. Corps have gotten so good (not that they used to not be) that I also think there is a new reality of what winning it all means, what making finals means, what making top 17 means, etc. When you see the latest World Class group this summer and realize they may be in 20th or so place, WOW! Genesis is really good and will get better over the season. They may jump some spots- but as stated earlier, those big jumps are really hard to do these days.
Regarding the psychological state of my corps, it seems to have been different with various instructors over the years. When I marched, the visual team seemed to guid the corps most mentally. I am told that has changed several times over since then with staff changes. With Dan Farrell there for so long, I would think he is the most steadfast entity- I do think he has handled this summer's tragedy quite well and do remember a few talks he gave the corps that were timely and effective at giving us a boost and redirecting our attention.
Interesting topic.
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2 hours ago, henry7184 said:
I disagree on Crossmen, PR and Madison. I think Crossmen are one of the few to watch this season. They have an excellent show, and I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up battling BAC for 7th at the end of the season. They are for real. With PR, I do not see this show as a new era show, but really more of the same, and they have some pretty big guard and brass issues. Madison is radically different this year, and has their best design in years but the question here is whether they can achieve on that design. Madison has modernized, PR has not, IMO. Still very exciting year.
I have long thought but not stated how much I appreciate your posts. They are clear and honest, friendly and respectful.
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40 minutes ago, JKT90 said:
This is like picking college football play off teams in March. Some corps have had less than 3 shows...
Actually, it is nothing like that.
I share a lot of the thoughts in the original post and am eager to see how shows and performances progress. As for the home team, I too am glad Regiment is taking a different path to creating not only competitive shows, but shows that entertain a broader swath of fans. I think the brass will be able to do the show, but it is going to take some time.
If between Bluecoats and BD, what influences your pick?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I think they are using this year's props amazingly well. Perhaps the best prop use ever. SCV was pretty amazing at it last year. But I am distracted that they too often run to them and move them as if those members are invisible, moving in a way that looks frantic to me, doesn't match the music/mood, and takes them out of performance mode.