Tad_MMA
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Posts posted by Tad_MMA
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1 minute ago, Tad_MMA said:
***RELEASE THE NERD!***
Unless mentioned, BD was rated 1st. Bold is a "repeat offender" for Thurs/Fri only.
YEAR QF SF
'08 R. Solomon D. Torchia (In this, the closest of DCI wins, both of these had a 0.2 spread w/ BD/PR. Finals judge had a 0.7 spread.)
'09 J. Howell R. Solomon
'10 L. Carlson W. Chumley (Straight 20s all 3 nights. Wowza!)
'11 G. Oliviero R. Solomon
'12 R. Solomon M. Lentz
'13 G. Oliviero D. Torchia
'14 L. Carlson M. Turner
'15 M. Turner G. Oliviero (Turner had BD in 2nd by 0.2)
'16 M. Lentz M. Thompson (QF: BD 0.3 under CC; SF: BD 0.2 under CC and 0.1 under Bloo; Finals: BD wins by 0.3; CC wins Zingali)
'17 H. Nguyen R. Solomon (QF: BD 0.15 under SCV; SF: BD 0.2 under SCV; Finals: BD 0.3 win. SCV wins Zingali)
'18 C. Raichle W. Chumley (SF: 0.3 under BAC for 4th place guard [lowest since '07 SF 6th place]; BAC wins Zingali)
To make it easier to compare, here are the Finals judges again:
'08: R. Solomon (19.9)
'09: L. Carlson (20)
'10: R. Solomon (20)
'11: M. Turner (19.8)
'12: L. Carlson (20)
'13: L. Carlson (19.9)
'14: R. Solomon (20)
'15: M. Czapinski (19.7)
'16: W. Chumley (19.9)
'17: C. Raichle (19.6)
'18: M. Turner (19.60)
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16 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
I'm not saying BD should or shouldnt have won most of those years. But as an administrator in a band circuit, you look for trends. Sometimes trends reveal themselves in ways that prove my point. Only 3 people in 11 years didn't get multiple cracks.
Of those years, I'd love to see how many of them worked the other 2 days.
***RELEASE THE NERD!***
Unless mentioned, BD was rated 1st. Bold is a "repeat offender" for Thurs/Fri only.
YEAR QF SF
'08 R. Solomon D. Torchia (In this, the closest of DCI wins, both of these had a 0.2 spread w/ BD/PR. Finals judge had a 0.7 spread.)
'09 J. Howell R. Solomon
'10 L. Carlson W. Chumley (Straight 20s all 3 nights. Wowza!)
'11 G. Oliviero R. Solomon
'12 R. Solomon M. Lentz
'13 G. Oliviero D. Torchia
'14 L. Carlson M. Turner
'15 M. Turner G. Oliviero (Turner had BD in 2nd by 0.2)
'16 M. Lentz M. Thompson (QF: BD 0.3 under CC; SF: BD 0.2 under CC and 0.1 under Bloo; Finals: BD wins by 0.3; CC wins Zingali)
'17 H. Nguyen R. Solomon (QF: BD 0.15 under SCV; SF: BD 0.2 under SCV; Finals: BD 0.3 win. SCV wins Zingali)
'18 C. Raichle W. Chumley (SF: 0.3 under BAC for 4th place guard [lowest since '07 SF 6th place]; BAC wins Zingali)
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9 hours ago, Sideways said:
The judge on finals night knows the required spread to guarantee a caption win...despite given BD the top spot on finals night the spread was kept close enough to allow BAC to win. Read all you want into that.
Bahahaha! I was going to start a completely new thread on this. I think I did write of it in MMA's fall issue. Yes, BD only needed 0.1 to win Guard last month -- that would have tied them with BAC, and the caption tiebreaker goes to the finals number. BD won by .05, giving the cake-and-eat-it result: BD has the top guard in finals; BAC gets the hardware. On the other hand, perhaps he had absolutely no idea regarding the spreads, so this is moot. By the way, why not add to the arithmeticking (😎) in caption awards? 20% QF; 30% SF; 50% finals. Make the tabulators earn that bank.
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6 hours ago, BigW said:
I didn't think the Finals panel had access to the previous recaps... or... are they briefed on the exact spread in the pre-contest briefing?
We are; why aren't they? There has to be a certain trust given to judges. Yes, they're human; yes, they have favorites. The two numbers that freaked me out the most must have done the same to the powers that be. I won't mention names, but one judged GE Visual in 1987 finals and the other judged color guard in '03 prelims. Two incredible WT(holy)F moments. The former never judged a major contest again (only DCWest); the latter, I'm not sure.
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On 9/26/2018 at 8:53 PM, Jeff Ream said:
Sorry but being the championship guard yet you didn’t win finals night is hollow
Welp, the Blue Devils had the top score in '17 finals yet SCV won the trophy. BD had a LOT of bad line on Thurs and Friday. Frankly, I haven't seen them look that bad (for them) consistently since '05. On Saturday, they were absolutely on fire and won by 0.3. I've no prob with the best OVERALL guard or drums, etc winning.
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1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said:
it's not like it was 11 different people over that span.
'08: R. Solomon (19.9)
'09: L. Carlson (20)
'10: R. Solomon (20)
'11: M. Turner (19.8)
'12: L. Carlson (20)
'13: L. Carlson (19.9)
'14: R. Solomon (20)
'15: M. Czapinski (19.7)
'16: W. Chumley (19.9)
'17: C. Raichle (19.6)
'18: M. Turner (19.60)
Bold denotes "repeat offenders," which has exactly what to do with anything? "This is what I gave last year" can't possibly register in their minds. Obviously, of ANY corps in ANY caption, this has been the most consistent, especially of late. ######, you people are making me publicly defend the Blue Devils! My eyes weren't open to them until 2014! Frankly, I can do without their 2015 and 2016 shows -- yawns, the both of them (to me), but they guarded the heck out of those shows. But again, to deny their greatness, superiority and dominance is to deny the simple math. Einstein couldn't do that, so don't try. Scott Chandler is the Nick Saban of Color Guard. 😝
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13 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
That to me says more about judge selection in that caption.
11 years in a row? 11 judges in a row? C'mon. W. Chumley "disagreed" with the prior judges in 2016 who had Crown a combined 0.4 ahead of BD. In Finals, he had Crown at 19.6 and BD at 19.9 (CC won guard) -- last month, he had BD in FOURTH in semifinals' guard (they won Thurs and Sat). So, cross him off your list.
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1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:
I still say Phantoms percussion costs them 89 under any system
Oh? SCV beat them overall by 0.4 and in drums by 0.5. Under today's system (with FOUR GE judges), Phantom loses drums by .25 and certainly picks up in MA and Guard. Believe me, I've done the math. Unfortunately, SCV would beat Garfield '87 under today's rules, given Garfield's icky guard.
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Just now, Fran Haring said:
Good point. We all have opinions on whether the rules should, or should not, be changed.... but none of us have a vote. LOL.
Until I read your post, I had no idea what the system was in 1988 and '89. Does sound kinda weird.
It was awful. I even got judges to admit it. The economy was good, but DCI's wasn't, so they economized on paying judges. One bad number could throw the thing (Phantom's drums in 1989). Granted, under that system, they would have destroyed BD in 2008 rather than winning by a hair.
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Caption awards have been decided so differently over the years that there would be many, many changes if today's rules applied. I still think the stupidest rule was in '88/'89. The horrible 6-panel system (which got it wrong both years) had 3 performance judges and 3 GE judges. Trophies were decided by adding the respective Perf + GE numbers. So SCV got to win overall GE *AND* Percussion -- even though on both nights, Garfield had the top performance score. None of the previous ties would have stood, even with multiple numbers deciding. Plus, in the days of counting mistakes (ticking), things might have been far different by rating achievement like today. Basically, we accept the current system, whatever it is. I can debate all day how under today's (superior) system, SCV would have beaten Madison in '88, and Phantom would have won in '89.
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On 9/24/2018 at 11:22 PM, TRacer said:
SCV went on 4th from last in ‘84, and took 1st outright In Field Brass with a 10/10. I can still hear my frack on the recording during the nasty blind back up move the lead baris (there were only four of us) did in Tenderland during the sop feature and wonder if that hurt the upstairs score.
No, SCV was rewarded a 9.9 in field brass on Saturday. The only "perfect" scores that night were Garfield's 15s in GE Visual/Brass (SCV finished 4th in GE Brass). That was the first all-buildup year in judging, and while some were taking risks, they were also getting their feet wet. 27th Lancers performed SECOND yet their drum scores were 9.8 and 9.9.
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On 9/25/2018 at 3:55 PM, Fran Haring said:
Man... that's a lot for an announcer to say!!!
Seriously... I agree. If the overall champion is determined by Finals-night scores... the caption winners should be,
In that case, the Blue Devils would have won their 11th consecutive Color Guard trophy. I wonder how many would bemoan that. (They've lost 3 in a row yet still had the highest score from the finals judges.)
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On 9/21/2018 at 1:20 PM, Jeff Ream said:
I believe GE was why they didn't announce Star.
No, Star and Cavies tied in Percussion GE at Finals. Had GE Perc been the tiebreaker, SCV would have been the sole winner. They only used GE as part of the caption awards in 1988 and 1989 . However, in 1980, Spirit and Bridgemen co-won Drums, but they used the GE Perc score to break the tie to the Bananas. (I wonder if that was an actual rule. Seriously. Spirit should look into that.)
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9 hours ago, Who's on first? said:
Are we talking finals night, or the average between all three competitions, like the awards are currently given? When did that format start happening?
My list is the official winner/s. From 1972 through 1983, the way brass/perc finished at Finals decided the trophies. From 1984-1987 and 1990-1993, Brass, Perc, Visual were FIELD + ENSEMBLE, and the top total(s) from Finals won. In 1988/89, there were 6 judges: 2 each in Brass ,Perc, Vis (GE & Performance). They added the Finals GE + Performance numbers per caption (yet still had a GE award). Beginning in 1994, they added the 3 performance scores from Thur, Fri, Sat. Ties were ok (now, it's broken by the Finals score). It would be interesting to compile lists (my nerdiest of nerd fun things to do) of 1972-1999 caption winners based on today's averaging standards. For instance, in 1988, Madison won Color Guard in semifinals; Phantom won in Finals (and got the trophy). By today's logarithms, the winner would have been (the most amazing) Suncoast Sound.
I'm still waiting for somebody to explain how Star was not announced High Percussion co-winner with SCV and Cavies...
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Who won both Brass & Percussion:
1972: Kingsmen
1976: BD
1977: BD
1984: BD
1985: BD
1987: Garfield
1991: Star
1993: Star
1994: BD
1997: BD
2005: Cadets
2007: BD
2018: SCV <--- First outright Brass win in corps' history.
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I'll research more later, but the one show I know for its entire 12m 56s is Garfield '85. Beginning w the opening movement, they stop moving (as a complete unit) only NINE times. That includes 4x to end tunes (the opener is in 2 parts) and the end of the show. Those other 5x: opening block fanfare and brief pause to conclude the intro, twice in the ballad and to set up the closer w the sop solo. What we call Park n Play comes twice - in the ballad.
"They" say the activity is better today. Could a corps manage that kind of movement even with 1.5 minutes less?
(I haven't relived SCV's Perpetual Motion show. Will do tonight.)
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Wow. If SCV wins the Ott tonight, that will be the first time EVER to solely win High Brass. Their 2 awards were shared ('84/'87). Here's a poser: which corps finished the lowest but still won a competitive caption award? (Spirit was 10th in '87 and won guard - not part of the 100 pts.)
I think it's the '82 Bridgemen. 8th place corps, high Percussion.
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Reviewing 2008-1017, whenever the Blue Stars do well, Madison doesn't. I don't know what the Wisconsin recruiting factor is (other than female membership), but keep an eye on those two.
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In compiling thoughts for an article, I can easily find caption winners through historical recaps. Guard is harder, because "From the Pressbox" doesn't have all results. I STILL don't understand the "2.0" scoring of the 1970s --- more than one corps achieves that number, so I don't know who really won. Is there a place or a historian who can lead me down the right road?
Thx
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And when I say "old timers," at my first live show in 1985, people were complaining about guards dancing, no headgear, drill designs that were (gasp) completely abstract and weird musical choices like "Jeremiah." At the Key to the Sea show, some were complaining that the Cavaliers sold out, because the guard guys were using red balls during "Uranus." I loved all that stuff, so I'm not THAT old.
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I'll tell you what: if some of these corps put less effort into out-theming each other (and attempting the best pre-season poster) and more effort into creating/presenting entertaining, understandable, compelling programs, many of us old timers (who have the money) might be more excited about DCI.
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I'm not sure that this is on topic, but I found something quite puzzling about SCV. As far back as the 70s, Vanguard was the standard for design and class. They drummed spectacularly and were rewarded for their drill design. Still the ONLY corps to appear in EVERY DCI Finals, they couldn't win High Brass until 1984, and that was a 3-way tie. Their only other Ott trophy was 1987 -- another tie. Now, that caption has been utterly dominated by a small cadre of corps: BD, Phantom, Star, Cadets, Madison and now Crown. Is there something philosophical behind this, or does SCV just not use the right people?
Footnote(s): NINE different Brass winners from 1972 through 2017.
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17 hours ago, Lance said:
yeah, it was pure fluff, and i didn't think there was anything wrong with it
i could be wrong, but it felt like blunt and tucci were doing some improv in some scenes, and tried to outdo each other
Scene w/ Andi's 1st day: when Emily tells her she'll go to Calvin Klein, she says, "Me?" Emily then snarks...ending with the line, "...some hideous skirt convention you have to go to..." She absolutely breaks up on "to" as the camera quickly cuts away. There's nothing in the commentary, but I think that line was so funny to Blunt that it was the best take they could get. I'd love to know the real answer.
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12 hours ago, Invictus said:
No. I saw WotW. Is it possible to just enjoy a movie anymore without it having to be some sort of an analysis? Does every nook and cranny require analysis?
In fact, after I saw the movie with a friend, I bought a new blender. Every time I think about that blender I think of WotW. It's not a tripod blender. Maybe it should have been.
I feel that way about "The Devil Wears Prada." I enjoy it on a surface level, although every single movement in that film was predictable and completely without thought. It's as though the director was reading from the UCLA Film School 101 Make-a-Movie outline, checking off things as he plodded along. Plus, it was a waste of talent for a great actress. (Mood shift...something lacking in the film.) I'm talking about Emily Blunt.
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Caption Awards
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
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Not to everyone. Enlighten us!