LancerFi

I'm not sure, you said someone is leaning? It probably isn't me. In this picture you really cannot tell it's me because it's so small, but the 8 1/2 X 11 you can tell! This one looks like I either have 2 noses or no chin!! Thanks to everyone who likes this avatar. But beware, now that I know how to get one up there, a monster has been created! I had a great photographer in 80....so, we'll see what happens.. LOL Anyway, yes Malibu, I wish you would ask Chris about that, if he remembers...he was so burnt from being on tour and practicing, and watching the old broad toss his rifle, he must have been thinking, she gonna break it!! :P Wow, this has became a very odd thread as deftguy mentioned! :)

That's the picture....the whole page!!! I was ow ow owoooooing when I opened the book in 77 when I got to us, it was me in 76, the whole page. Someone then sent me a percussion book. They had colorized that picture, actually it was more of a drawing of that same picture in color, and it was on the cover! Amazing, truly! I've had a lot off good luck with stuff like that, with others, no so lucky!!! LOL :(

deftguy wrote: "I was taught this theory by example in my high school colorguard. All new guard members start on flag, period. You practice sabre and rifle on you own until you are good enough to challenge or audition for a spot." But isn't that saying that the rifle is more difficult? Or is it saying that it's a smaller line and the competition is tougher, or what? If it were the other way around, I would have been hard pressed I believe to make our flag line! Of course anything you put your mind to.....there were times I never thought I'd get a move down, and get it down perfectly, but eventually, it would come, but I would keep doing it say while the drill was being taught, or do it in my yard prior to practice and just keep on doing what I thought I was weak in. Kind of Larry Bird showing up for practice early, and staying later than every one else taking 3 point shots and free throws! He did do that!

Thanks deftguy for both of your answers/posts. We practiced on cement from the time I was 11, maybe 3 times all summer on grass or turf except while on tour and on the competition field. I'm not sure if it was because we didn't do as many death defying tricks, which you guys did do, but we never reinforced, nor did I ever go through more than 2 rifles in a season, all 11 seasons. I always had mine left over and believe that my contest rifle was the same for 3 out of the 5 years in 2-7. I was the one people came to or called if they had broken a rifle. I'm not saying I didn't drop my rifle at rehearsal or on the field, it took a beating, but I never had one break. Now I feel very lucky. It was almost like my 3rd arm as I actually felt like it was an extension of myself. If I had to break in especially a new contest rifle, I would have been flipping I have to tell you. There were varying weights in rifles, and people that were bigger than me may have a lighter one, and vice versa. When we did exchanges we kept the other persons rifle, sometimes it could be 2 pounds heavier, or in 76 when we layed down the rifles, I picked up a very light one. You know, on tour in 2-7, I never even remember there being any extra rifles, we left with 2 and came home with 2. Some brought 3, but I don't ever remember that being a problem. Could this be an eastern thing? Not enough $$ for extras? You got 2 and that was it. In 80 I bought the streamer material, I was the captain, and just took it upon myself to get it and bring it. 2 new ones would be given out prior to every contest. Although for finals we did not put new ones on if I remember correctly. We had gone on the field with 10 rifles at prelims and went on at finals with 9, but the 10th rifle was right there in front of the podium so that we could see it. I didn't want to chance changing anything else after that, not even streamers...strange what people do ha? By the way in 1994 it was very difficult to decide if I wanted to be a saber or rifle. I never even tried on an aussie hat, and was thinking, I always loved the saber, such finesse, and I did want to try that uniform. But I just could not give up my rifle. I did find quads much easier that year...had to have been the extra poundage! Many 2-7 rifles have told me that picking up the flag and doing it for 1 song or even 1/2 the show was very, very difficult for them. I do believe it's those different muscles. Is anyone blind yet, as I went on and on and wrote a 1/2 a chapter for my book.....sorry about that!

Geez, Liz, you're describing my experiences with rifles (which ain't much...our high school didn't have 'em :( ...though we begged and begged)... I had a real healthy respect for those that spun rifles. And while I liked flags a WHOLE lot, if they'd have started a rifle line, I'd have been the first to sign up to try out! I've said it before but I'll say it again in case someone missed it. I found doing flag much more difficult than rifle. I learned the whole 79 show for the Olympics. We were all flags (except when marching the Olympic flags ins) for the opening ceremonies. Who believes that if someone wants to become a flag can, and others that want to become a rifle can through practice? I've seen people that tried and tried to make a rifle line that were excellent flags, they just never got comfortable with that piece of equipment. Along those same lines, I believe if I had continued through 80 and say the next 5 years, I could have never been a good flag. But and that's a big but (LOL), we now see some guards that have all people using all equipment. Not every guard, and not all to the utmost professionalism, but the ones that have sabers and rifles are usually that throughout the whole show, and then everyone will pick up flags at some point....any thoughts on this? I know that I can do rifle, saber, dowel or swing flag, but the full sized flag to me was the most difficult...such different sets of muscles, and there were 2 silks. I didn't expect this to be so long or I would have began a new thread....and I could ask more questions, but I will begin another for it! Help, I want to know if it was just my impediment? :(

oh my, I'm working for an attorney and the Chief Compliance Officer who is also a Senior V.P. But I'm getting no where, so I thought I would look into paralegal. But I haven't studied since 1977... so I'm a little worried...OK I can PM about that some time. Anyway, I guess then you do go through a lot of equipment. That's only natural when you're learning. I've heare a few stories from Malibu. Like when she's ready to pull her hair out of her head?!? ^0^ I just have to ask you and I ask her all of the time....how do you do it, how do you not strangle them, how is it ever good enough, where does that patience come from? When they asked me to teach the rifle line in 82 I said yes, then after a week a lot of thinking things went through my head like when I was teaching the Lancer Cadets Winter Guard. I expected them to be as good as a senior corps and would get very upset inside if they could not get it the first time. Meanwhile these were young ladies who eventually made the senior line at 12 and 13. A 13 year old in our 1980 rifle line. Makes ya kind of feel like, I'm old and she's that good? What??? Anyway, I cannot believe those things I have at home are wood. I believe you and I'm certainly not going to saw one in half, but they do feel very hollow for wood...."boing" Glad you come back here to keep your sanity, if that's at all possible. I believe I've been on this so much for the last month that if they get a print out of the time I've spent on the internet, I'd be fired on the spot!!

Yes, you could be right......I do seem to remember asking Chris why they hadn't taped them yet. I think the rifle was slippery because you didn't want to break your beautiful long red nails, so you didn't grip it like you normally would when catching. With beginners who are constantly dropping them, it is best to reinforce them. As far as the grip, it doesn't really change.....for beginners, they don't know the difference. Plus with the new gloves guards wear today, they are padded and seem to have a better grip.....especially useful with sabres. B) Didn't he say they had just gotten some "used" ones from _ _ _ _ _ _ ? OR were those flag poles? This was in 01 I think that he said they had just gotten some equipment....so maybe they hadn't gotten a chance to tape them! By the way in 93 when I went to look for white gloves....(mine just from finals-1 show in 80 were cracking from being spit on and the sweat) I ended up having to buy golfers gloves. Although it was difficult to find a left and a right. I didn't have the ones with the fingers out, but some people did, it looked kind of funny with the fingers out only because we were in full regalia....

Shoot there was supposed to be a quote here....sorry! You know what, LegleEagle50, I believe you are correct. They were made of wood! In the Reveries we kept the strap on with pennies but took off the trigger guard, trigger, and we bent down the site. In 2-7 we took off all of the hardware except the nozzle, all of the other stuff was screwed into the wood. In both corps we then painted them. So, when In 94 they handed me 2 rifles for the season, it felt like it was going "boinnnggg" everytime I did something. It just had a very silvery color looking bolt which did not open and felt like fiberglass or whatever they are now made of. Luckily, I still had my 3 or 4 rifles from marching junior corp. Unfortunately, I had to take off all of the beautiful tape work from my 80 rifle because we were using just plain white. Why we didn't tape them that year, I don't know (I mean the way you and Malibu are discussing). Off topic for one second, are you a JD?? Always wondered about your name!! Thanks for that info! Nancy

I can't find my own posts, because I'm Jeff for a day!!

What??? Nancy when you were throwing quads with a Crossmen's rifle last year, didn't you notice it was taped? I know my guards have been taping rifles since I started teaching .......way back when and they still tape them. Or are you talking about "decorative" taping like guards did when we marched? Now that, like you say, went out in the 80s. Today, guards use strapping tape plus white vinyle tape for extra support. It's kinda of funny when you take all the tape off and see how many cracks are in the rifle......if it weren't for the tape, it would have fallen apart. b**bs No Ms. Malibu, when I was doing one handed quads I noticed no tape, or maybe that's why it is so slippery...it's all coming together now. Yes to beautify. No, never used a strapping taped, with tape over rifle, not in 94 either. Nor from 70-80 and I never noticed a crack. Is that from throwing the equipment down to pick up another piece? As I know that the rifle is not used all that much. Of course I've never seen a band, so that may be the difference???

this went out in the 80's???? there hasn't been a single year that i haven't taped mine. 1981-present. without strapping tape and white tape over it they don't have a chance of surviving the season IMO. that's NOT because of drops in the performances, that's because of everyday wear and tear on parkinglot surfaces, being tossed around from place to place, and learning new work, etc. and i don't think it's just me who is still taping them, considering how outdated it is as you put it. there's not a single instructor i know who doesn't. (besides the fact that for WG it's a circuit requirement). <_< I'm talking about the beautifying of the rifle. And no we didn't need more than 2 rifles a year normally. 1 practice and 1 competition, both in indoor guard and outdoor, and we never once needed ot reinforce with white tape or whatever you are now talking about. It's certainly not what I'm talking about! Nor did we in 94. I'd love to know how you can get a grip with tape up and down the rifle if indeed that's what you're talking about. Yes ours too got thrown around especially doing an exchange from the 40 to the 40 rehearsing in parking lots. I'm very surprised, I'll have to count how long rifles are even kept in peoples hands to warrant what you're talking about! Spitting into the leather gloves is how I got the traction I needed for the type of work we did, and catches we made. So we're talking about 2 different things....sorry you and I are not talking about the same animal! B)

Malibu: You know, I thought so too, at first. I do have dance background and catch on VERY quickly to things, so, after thinking it over, I probably could have made it. After all, in college I was in both the guard and the drill team, which was a VERY elite group. They had 50 members but only the "fabulous 32" marched, both football and basketball season. I did guard during football season and guard/drill team during basketball season. Aren't you impressed...? ^0^ Sorry, I remember what our summer drill teams did around Boston at shows almost every week end in the CYO and AL circuits. Is that the same thing? What did college drill team entail, if you don't mind!! Nancy

Its not representative of the body. For every one you mention, I can name a dozens and dozens who follow the same overdanced, overtarped, overpropped formula. Even the guards that Stu mentioned who in the past DIDN'T follow this formula in the past, are now doing it. The pressure is too great not to do it. Fantasia, The Raiders, and the Blue Devils are in a class by themselves. They(especially the Raiders and the Blue Devils) are head and shoulders above the competition in just about every catagory mentionable. I thank you for making my point. :) Can you imagine that, beaten by COLORGUARDS who had PROFESSIONAL BALLET INSTRUCTORS. G, Sally, Malibu, Nancy, this is were colorguard has gone ampssuck deftguy, I mean Mr. Bond, I think I'll watch that tape that Ms. Malibu kindly made for me...oh my. And G and Sally, now I know why we only won best Guard at DCI Nationals 4 out of the 5 years I marched. We missed our dance lessons that one year! You'll have to excuse me, it's been a long day and I don't mean to talk like this...I'll probably edit it out in a little while! Oh, please forgive me....but enough already. The premise is ridiculous!

Yup i do it too. and about the thinking about catching that 6 or if im in unison with the other 4 or 5 (which now is 34-35) we still do that but its at the same time as moving body underneath the toss in question. It was tightly controlled what do you think ballet is about? I didnt mean that i sucked at spinning before i started dancing on the side, just that ballet teaches you alot about your body, things that a whole lot of guards (HS) arnt told at the get go. Like youre susposed to scoup your tummy and flatten your back at all times, no matter what. Ive spun under both techniques (with and with out alot of integrated dance) and i like with dance more, its more of a challenge. Its like "okay ive got this work after one week of sectionals now i can nit pick my body". Also when i was under the low dancing techniques we were being beaten by the guards who had professional ballet instructors on their staff (this was in HS). side note.....i was taping my rifle while reading all your responses.....funny...tehehe. BTW im not being mean, i just LOVE debating about guard/corps B) By the way I'm not being mean either. Now we have 34-35 rifles doing something together? 34-35? I'd love to see a still shot of 34 or 35 rifles doing a six with body movement (I'd be happy seeing 2 together doing a double). I'd like to see the release, the rifle at any height as well as it's highest height. I can guarantee you that not 2 bodies, hands, arms, feet, or equipment would be the same. Let's not over do it please? A top guard is lucky if they can get 4 or 5 which is a good amount, to do what you're now saying. The catch would even be more interesting to see. I'd love to see catch the of 34-35, maybe 1 person not moving or lunging off your spot or catching on the run.... Let's face it, the premise that dance helped you be a better rifle, helped you not look at the floor or the rifle is frankly ridiculous. Maybe because you've been spinning or doing whatever you said you did since 1983, perhaps you have now gotten better in 30 years...maybe that's it.... See, I did try to be diplomatic at the beginning....but now the story is changing....if you learned how to be a better rifle because of dance you're only fooling yourself. There, I said it. You could have learned the pelvic tilt with a plum line by the way. It is funny that you're taping your rifle though, that also went out in the 80's, but last year I did notice Spirit and maybe Phantom with tape on their rifles. People in drum corps not 2-3 years ago even knew rifles used used to be taped and have streamers! It's good that you're taping your rifle.

sigh.......Dance class actually helps you spin better ???????? OMG what a joke !! and a sad state of afairs if this is true. I wonder, did you guys in Lancers take dance classes ?? I wonder if Guardsmen did......? I know the Scouts didnt. Maybe Boston Crusaders did ?? How ludicrous to think that dance class makes you spin better, I remember praciticing and good instructors made me spin better...... If that hepled someine, fine but to require it to have good spinning and technique ?? theres something wrong there. ~G~ ~G~ and Sally, when I said dance could take your mind off of a lot of things, I only mentioned what works for this person. And as you know, a big NO to did we take dance classes to enhance our equipment work or marching. As I remember that is one of the first things I learned as an 11 year old, that's when I began in my first rifle line. You have to be so familiar with your equipment that there would never be a reason to look at it. Anyone who would be spinning and looking at their equipment would be one of the first cut. After a month or so if you were doing anything but looking straight ahead and eyes a little up you didn't make the line. As well, the up against the wall with your hand almost touching so that there were no forward or backward angles. We also did singles, doubles, triples and quads about 1 1/2 to 2 paces from a wall. Or maybe it was 2 1/2 to 3. You'd make it go up straight or you'd be running a lot! But, what I was thinking of was more along the lines of: how good you're handling your equipment, where are your angles, how are you going to catch that 6, are you in unison with the other 4 or 5 and so on? Maybe you no longer look at the floor or the equipment because that is so secondary to the dancing and the emphasis IS on the dancing. Which might be why the equipment work execution is hurting so badly in a lot of guards. It may take your mind off things, but it's the good things it's taking away from I believe. Well, we've actually seen what it can do to most guards equipment work, haven't we? :ramd: :ramd:

Our bodies, believe it or not were fine tuned. Between plum lines and various other body carriage exercises, as well as the calisthenics and stretching we had to endure before every rehearsal made the final product look quite fine to me. As to the standing still part That may be someones wishful thinking, standing still doing things! We and so many other guards never stopped, not for a minute with our equipment and moving. During concert not only did we go crazy with our equipment work, but we also danced-within reason. There is a wonderful piece of video which shows about 7 flags going forward and into an arc doing "Peggy Spins" during "On the 20th Century" which for that era, got up to a pretty fast tempo. The inertia (I think that would explain it) to keep the double silk going that fast and keeping the body totally perfect visually actually hurts to watch! Did we make it look simple, yes. Was it, absolutely not! All I can say is, different method and different final product! I'm just glad we didn't have to rely so heavily on the motion of the ocean to be seen and to WOW everyone! But I was WOWed in 02 by some guards and there is no doubt that what all do is very, very difficult! Nancy

Sally, not as gracious as you might think....mostly a facade.... You're very kind as well! But don't kid yourself about me, I'm hard core militant "Queen" Nancy as I've been called many, many times in the past 30 years, among other things. Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me! Having said that, loyal to a fault, which is not so good for some people!!

Many guards should get a Pilates machine or at least a Pilates tape. Mr. Pilates invented that over 100 years ago....so then old is good? :P Just kidding with you. Glad you're doing the correct thing with your body. If you're going to dance, it should be better than what we've been seeing....stretch that body out, make it lean, and stand up straight and tall and add 1 or 2 inches to it.... As far as making yourself more confident with equipment work thru dance, I guess whatever works!

I wonder then, how I stopped looking at the floor and field without dance...actually that's how we were taught from the beginning, not to look at your equipment, floor, etc. You were supposed to look at and through the judges, people in the stands, GE box. That's what gave us such an intense look. I guess what works for one and was non-existent to another is very different. I suppose dance could take your mind off of a lot of things though couldn't it? Just asking here.... :)

LOL! I was looking at 80 Finals over the weekend. Too incredible for words. Kept trying to figure out which rifle Nancy was...I think (looking at the field from the audience) that she's on the left. Am I right? Sally, that's correct. Looking at the audience I'm on the left closest to the 50 in both 79 & 80. Although in 79 the center went from short to tall, and in 80 we went from tall to short. Nevertheless, yes looking at the field I'm on the right, but me looking at the GE box, I'm on the left!! I know you know that that was once the #2 side!!!

I would love that and actually still remember it! Don't know if my knee could take the quad catch just before we turn around and catch the flags (up front in an arc) but I could always try! That's the catch that's on corpsreps. Hate that picture but love that move!

Me too....on the tape everyone seems to be so petite in their guard, yet they did some of the most amazing things! Their horn line I also thought was quite good! I'm no horn person I remember so many of their songs, played beautifully! (Seahawk?) Wasn't that one of their OTL? Anyway, ~G~ please stop making me Of course I love it and appreciate it....and I get giddy...OK you make me feel like a kid again! Thanks for that!! Nancy

I don't get it :( ....aside from the fact that you are like, a ...superstar !! b**bs I'm gonna have to make you sign my 80 finals broadcast video. ~G~ (oh wait... I think I get it LOL.....me too !) I think someone had got a shot in their direction. hahaha, that was so funny I almost forgot to laugh <$1 to PeeWee Herman> TerriDitt57-that comment was not about you. As a matter of fact I don't know where you marched, if you marched, where you teached, etc., etc. except for RA now. Prior to RA I do not know your history. I believe you said RA but will go back and check...just clearing that up right now!! I'm not sure if it was on this thread but someone made a comment that unless you marched junior corps or whatever, how could you have an opinion or even know what it's like. And to that I say: I know plenty of people who were not superstars in there respective guards/corps but have taught top guards for years now. Not only that but many people who have watched drum corps can see it sometimes more clearly than others who have marched....I could go on forever about this subject for example some people are competitors and excel in marching and equipment, but could not teach to save their lives....so it's all relative. And one certainly does not have to have marched DCI or junior corps to know more about drum corps than people who have not! That's that about that... :P

~G~ I marched in DCI finals! :P Just kidding

You know when I worked at Club Med I had the very lucky experience of seeing and working with the Montreal (or was it Canadian) Ballet with Sophie Bissonnette as their primary dancer. This was back in 86/87. We were learning lifts that they did in pairs....I could post a picture on here, but let's just say when I saw them dance I was WOWed like it was drum corps again. Move forward about 10 years, seeing the Alvin Alley (sp) dancers, I know both of these that I mention are professional artists. WOW I'd love to see a nice middle of the road (if I must) dance and good equipment work that wows me. I want WOW, not just wow. I don't want to see if for the sake of filling space. I know equipment work no longer needs to be together, it no longer matters. Maybe if it did we'd see more of it! And more death defying moves. I don't want 1 flag running from the corner, 3 dancing in the middle, 6 sabers catching on the move or on the lunge to catch them, the rest of the guard changing equipment. It's all so disjointed....but I am trying harder, I have this year to be wowed, oh please someone do at least 1 exchange as good as any done in the Bond show, just 1....little one even?? Please, Please, Please? And done well! Also, if you truly believe that all 50 yard line exchanges were the same corps after corps, I must ask, were you there or have you watched the video? Same is now.