Cavfan930
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Posts posted by Cavfan930
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I'm working on a research paper about DCI, specifically what the point of it all is. Here is an abstract (sorta) giving more details about the paper:
The purpose of this paper is to discuss how the goals of Drum Corps International (DCI) and its member corps align with each other and with stated criteria of adjudication. Additionally, if these elements are not in harmony, then a discussion of the effects of that misalignment will take place. I will answer these two questions in order to demonstrate how these goals and criteria are aligned. What is the point of DCI, and does DCI exist for education or competition? The effects of this discussion are far-reaching, as throughout its history DCI has involved more than 7 million students and each summer, more than 400,000 fans attend live events. Preliminary research suggests that because DCI does not have clearly defined goals, the system of judging is always changing. It also suggests that without more emphasis on strong competition, the activity will continue to face challenges regarding its growth and sustainability.
What I would love for someone to help me find is as many iterations of complete sheets as possible. I really need one from the tick days, plus 2-3 from 1995-present.
Also, if anyone is or knows someone in the higher-level leadership of various corps (especially corps that have won in the past decade) who would be willing to communicate with me on these ideas, please PM me. Thanks guys!
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I just picked two that would give a decent cross-section. I was trying to support your point, actually.
Early season I would think that it would happen even less, just due to the lower performance levels at that time, but that should be expected. if a corps is outperforming their book in June...they are in big trouble come August.
Yeah talk about a mid-july slump.
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On the Sat Allentown recap, of 60 sheets where that might have happened, it happened nine times (visual and music captions)...only twice on Friday. Less than 10% of the time, in other words.
Across the whole season and across all corps, I'd say it happens less than 3% of the time. But I'm not going to comb through all the recaps to find out.
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I'm studying math/stats at college right now, and what's always bugged me about the system in DCI is the immense crossover between captions that are weighted differently. Last season, I kept a personal series of spreadsheets for my five favorite corps, with each competition they were in on the left hand column, and each caption/sub-caption across the top (like an expanded recap, but for only one corps across a full season). This is back with the GE Music and GE Visual (When I say it like that, it sounds so long ago). I figured, like many posting here have said, that as the shows cleaned musically and visually, the GE would rise accordingly. Because one of the GE captions was all about the effect of the music, how well the corps played their instruments ought to have a direct causal relationship with that caption. The same for visual. What I discovered was that, besides a general positive trend of y=x for the corps overall score, the plots relating the music and GE music looked totally different! About half the time you'd see decreases (small, but in the negative direction nonetheless) in the majority of the music sub-captions, but an increase in the ge music score.
(On a similar note, it bugs me that you pretty much never see the achv surpass the cont/rep.)
It was maddening to see, so I chose not to do that this year. Of course, they also changed the sheets this season anyways, so I can't really assert either way that the same would continue to exist. (Are GE 1 and GE 2 the same, or is one more considerate of music and one more for visual?)
From a statistical analysis point of view, because there is an inherent relationship between all the captions but the GE is weighed more heavily than the scores it should be dependant on, absolutely no value can be placed in saying that X corps beat Y corps by less than 4 points (arbitrary number, it's probably not 4). Statistically, I would look at those scores, consider things like variance, standard deviation, etc. and be forced to conclude that the difference between them is not meaningful. In short, you end up with 5 champions instead of one when the normal conventions of stats and math are observed in considering the scores.
Something else that bugs me is that at the regionals and throughout finals week, it is never the same panel every night. If you want to be able to say, as objectively as possible, that the scores from these events are meaningful representations of the corps ability to perform a show better than everyone else, then you've got to have the same panel in the same positions at each of the big contests. Although, if you really want to rigorously decide who's the best, then you've got to force each corps to perform exactly the same show, in the same uniform. That's really the only way to isolate a variable in this activity and then evaluate it.
In conclusion, from an academic point of view, we would be better off if ALL the judges cast a simple vote for the best corps, and then do likewise for things like best percussion and brass. No more recaps filled with weird decimal points. Because honestly, how many times have you seen a corps clearly outperform someone else's brass, but then the recap says they only beat them by a tenth? It's ridiculous.
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Overall, the comparison of selling clothing to selling drugs is specious. Drugs are hugely damaging in any number of ways. You might argue that "inappropriate clothing" can be damaging in some abstract ways, but no one dies from a clothing overdose. The Mexican cartels are not interested in haute couture.
Then let's open up the school uniforms debate, shall we? Many proponents of school uniforms cite the massive psychological damage (or would you prefer the term abstract?) bullying, exclusion from social groups, and hazing as a reason to have standardized uniforms (which aren't generally very revealing).
Or what about the abstract effects they have on people who sincerely believe that men and women shouldn't expose too much of their bodies in public?
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I wonder if the OP remembers L'Insolite's guard outfits from '93 and '94?
I wonder if shortn'sour remembers the OP's very first comment that just because it's been done before doesn't mean it's okay? (2014, if you're wondering about the year)
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Drugs are illegal. Clothing is not.
Not in all countries, and as we've seen in America, drugs that used to be illegal can become legal.
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Heh. So drug dealers are A-okay. They're just selling it. They didn't grow the poppy right???
Careful, the doublethink police, er I mean, fallacy watchdogs, are watching.
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You're committing a logical fallacy again. The pigs are only symbols in the book. They aren't meant to be taken literal (I'm sure you know that). You can't compare that situation to what we're talking about.
What is a drum corps show but a microcosm? A reflection of some piece of art, a time in history, or an idea? Is the whole thing not a symbol?
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Because to argue about the word inadvertently is nothing more than a useless exercise in subjectivity. One person can say "that inadvertently condones X." Another person can say "That doesn't inadvertently condone X." It's all based on personal opinion. I would need far more objective evidence in order to make the claim that a specific uniform of any nature inadvertently condones anything.
Hi, my name is Cavfan930 and I'll be your tour guide today. Here on the left, you see a sports competition being judged on what are ultimately subjective ideals of perfection. On the right, the internet forum most strongly associated with said activity. This forum exists entirely so fans of the sport can express their opinions, likes, and dislikes to people who share their same passion for the activity. We wish it could be entirely objective, but honestly, none of this would exist without someone's subjective opinion. And if you'll follow me down this way...
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Also you're committing a bit of a fallacy in terms of your analogy. Crimes are on a completely different level/universe than what people wear.
Edited to change built to bit*
And pigs have nothing to do with communism, yet Animal Farm is okay. Metamorphing into a different kingdom/phyla isn't in the universe but Kafka's metamorphosis is a fine analogy/metaphor.
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Mom of a 10-year old daughter here. Would I want her to wear that outfit for shows all summer long? Well, if I had to be completely honest with myself I'd say no, I probably wouldn't. But, as an 18-year old, my daughter would have her own emerging adult identity and I would hope she had become a strong enough young lady to be able to separate her show character and her true character.
I agree with you whole-heartedly. But isn't part of what makes a character so convincing the ability of the actor or actress to find the character's qualities in themselves and amplify them?
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Ummm...why do I think what?
Why do you think that the show design does not inadvertently condone sexualization? Not saying you're wrong, I'm just having a tough time seeing that side of the question.
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Read my 2nd sentence. Do YOU think clothing stores are condoning the sexualization of women?
At one point in history, yes. As the styles become more socially acceptable, designing and selling clothes like that becomes part of the norm. It's kind of a disturbing moment when you realize that prostitutes in 18th and 19th, and early 20th century would've been wearing more modest clothing than teenage girls today.
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Apologies I miss that. Wouldn't you say that's still reaching though? It's like saying a clothing store is condoning the sexualization of women by selling bikinis, really short shorts, etc. It's a performance and what BD's guard (atleast the girls) are wearing aren't all that much different than what girls wear for some dance recitals or gymnastics.
see the first paragraph of my original comment:
Just because a type or style of clothing has been worn before in the activity, or skimpier styles are commonplace outside of it, doesn't mean it's okay. People have been committing all types of horrible crimes for centuries, but they're still crimes. Just because someone else does it is never an acceptable reason for anything, no matter the social perception of the behavior.
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You've ignored the guys in your assessment. I'd say they're being sexualized too, dontcha think? Those outfits ARE pretty tight for them.
I think you're reaching quite a bit. I highly doubt BD's staff has any intention of sending that type of message.
from my original post: then it could be argued that the Blue Devil's design staff has inadvertently condoned the sexualization of women in films and by extension, in DCI
I would never ever ever assert that ANY corps would intentionally send that message.
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I don't think that BD's design staff has inadvertently condoned the sexualization of women in films any more than the Baroque painter Rubens inadvertently condoned sexual violence against women in his painting "The Rape of the Daughter of Leucippus."
I'm not disagreeing, I tried to make it clear that I'm trying to be an outside voice on this, but why do you think that? For me, the argument for the opposite is a little more sound.
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Just because a type or style of clothing has been worn before in the activity, or skimpier styles are commonplace outside of it, doesn't mean it's okay. People have been committing all types of horrible crimes for centuries, but they're still crimes. Just because someone else does it is never an acceptable reason for anything, no matter the social perception of the behavior.
Now, I'm not at all familiar with Fellini's work, but one commenter said that the guards are reflective of the "sleaze" that was a common characteristic therein. Based on that alone, and the perception that Felliniesque is a celebration of the man (and filmmaking in general), then it could be argued that the Blue Devil's design staff has inadvertently condoned the sexualization of women in films and by extension, in DCI. Not really a great message to send, but like I said, if that message is there at all, it certainly isn't intentional. At least I would assume that.
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No, by carrier pigeon.
DRUNK carrier pigeons.
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the issue that all corps electing to use narration have to get past is the character of the narrator. FOR ME, the colts narration really worked because the actor could really perform the part, give it some life on the field. BK, a little harder to say since it's just a voice (right?) but it still as well developed as a narrator in this activity can get. The issue with the Cadets narration is not the use of narration itself, but the character of the narrator is just so very flat. I mean, the kid has a nice soothing voice and says some presidential stuff. When each line is as dramatic as the next, it gets hard to stomach.
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After some really exciting and energetic shows, that was felt like a bit of a dud. :( I really liked the Cadets early season too, but tonight the emotional pow of the closer wasn't there.
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The guy you're referring to aged out last year. You know, the guy who didn't march 80% of the show last year and just stayed at the front sideline.
Well this guy looks the same as that guy. Brothers? Or is really clones?
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No flame. You are just making a fool of yourself and bucking conventional wisdom with 99% of the thread but that's cool
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Can someone please provide me with an example of the BD lead trumpet/soloist who wasn't a brown haired male with a beard? Or have they been using the same guy for last 5 years? Because I swear, ever since I was introduced to the activity, it's been the same guy.
Past judging sheets
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Yeah, the abstract has been going through some pretty serious revision, and doesn't necessarily reflect my actual thesis at this point. I just wanted to give people a general idea of what I'm doing. At first I wanted to explore those questions about the "point" of DCI. I decided pretty quick there wasn't enough to be said about that, and that the education drives the competition and competition drives the education.