ducttapedgerbil
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Posts posted by ducttapedgerbil
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I just question the practicality of it. Especially in the way my previous post was intended to be in response to someone who was surprised that 76strad didn't know much about G bugles or that junior corps don't teach their members about them any more. It just wouldn't make any sense. Maybe encourage them to look up G bugles in their spare time, but for a corps to actually present a lesson on instruments they don't/won't use anymore is useless. The corps are about education. They are too busy teaching musical and visual concepts to inform their members of old horns. I just the found the lip service comment to be a little ridiculous considering that teaching a junior corps about horns they don't play on would accomplish little to nothing and leave the members confused as to why they had to hear about a dying breed of horns when they could be cleaning their current show.
exactly....let's not learn calculus, we have computers for that. Let's not learn how to spell or construct a sentence, we have spell-checkers for that. And who needs to know about history...the guys that wrote the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and signed the Declaration of Independence....well those are just a bunch of old dudes that didn't even have electricity or an Xbox....what do they know?
Open mouth....insert foot.
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Most of what I learned about the older bugles was from Frank Dorritie when I was a kid at Westshore and he explained them to us during a practice when we needed to cool down the chops and loosen up our heads for a couple of minutes. Not hard to talk about something here and there- many old hands educated us kids back in the day about the past of the activity if one was willing to listen and show some respect to some of those guys- guys who are gone now, who I think of often in a good way, and really miss in my heart. I still go to a few of them that are left when I have questions. If you ever have the time to talk to a fellow named Bill Light with 5-Star Brass, he's a veritable warehouse of knowledge about things like this- Jim knows him too, we both marched with him- the problem is he's usually very busy at the shows he's at....
Frank taught me too...
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wow, that's really a surprise for me to find that out
you're serious aren't you?...... jeez, I thought corps nowadays were about "education", I guess that is all just lip-service.
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ummmm, WHAT? (at your statement and your screename lol)
English
NounSingular
souldier
Plural
souldiers
souldier (plural souldiers)
1.Obsolete spelling of soldier.
.....ummmm, yeah....pretentious mental masterbation
and my screen name....think Richard Gere
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Too many people are too passionate about the activity to stop going to shows and buying merchandise. As irritating as some of this stuff is I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which things got so bad that I wouldn't watch/listen anymore.
I used to think that too.....
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keep in mind, just because the bingo operations have shut down does not mean the organization goes away.
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Agreed, the bingo thing does suck. I really enjoyed the Freelancers mini corps in Rochester last year.
And we will be there this year too :-)
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"Toy Souldier"????? Is that french for "Surrender Monkey"???????
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AFAIK, The Sacramento Freelancers Alumni will still continue as we have a few CA performances and a trip to DCA in September. We are self-funded this year and I am sure I can speak for everyone in saying how much we appreciate the organization helping us get this going over the last few years. There are a lot of alumni involved at different levels and we will do everything we can to help the organization.
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I have been playing on a modified Kanstul M6 with a deeper flugle cup. Darker tone, extended my range, can play louder before making "white noise"...(usually mutually exclusive characteristics)
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High schools can only operate "like a Drum & Bugle Corps" because drum corps has moved closer to being "like a marching band".... The differences between the two used to be what would draw people to drum corps, not the similarities. Not having squeeky shrieking woodwinds in your ear is a wonderful thing.... ;-)
Good point. But also consider that many band directors simply do not have the time to add any more to their load, no matter their age or ability. A band director's role is all-encompassing and really difficult. Concert Band, Wind Ensemble, Jazz Band, Marching Band, classes, private lessons, parents meetings, and more.I guess my point is that it's fine if they want to emulate the corps to a certain extent, but they must be careful. In most situations out there you have 1, sometimes 2, band directors at a school. They might have help with percussion and flags, and maybe if they are lucky they have some help with marching and visual design. What they don't have is a staff of over 30 (like the corps do) to help teach the product. If the drum corps need over 30 staff and 12+ hours per day for 3 months of the year (1 month spring training and 2 months of tour, plus the camps), then how the heck can a band perform something similar with 2 weeks of band camp and 45 to 50 minutes of day when school starts? So the director must be careful when planning a show, especially if they wish to emulate the corps style wihtout going overboard.
My marching band at Mount Union performs a corps-style show for halftime and a Big Ten-style show for pre-game. I keep the corps-style as simple and basic as possible while striving to make it look good and work for the college gameday audience. Many high school bands do not. They go all the way, often operating much like drum corps in the fall.
If you're getting a drum corps-like experience in the fall, why do it in the summer? Only the diehards, who can't get enough of it, will try this. Many of the diehards, who have done a lot of corps, tend to march with G7/top 12 corps. They have moved around and by college age they are ready to march at the highest level. This benefits the G7.
I see very few things that benefit the smaller corps, or the less-competitive corps. With many HS bands operating like corps, there is little reason to march corps. And for the few that will ultimately do it, they often wait unitl they are good enough to be in the big corps, primarily because DCI's focus is on the G7 and has been for some time. They are the headliners and certainly do help to attract people to a show, but because of that the diehards are willing to wait until college (or senior year in HS) until they can make one of those corps. They figure "If I'm going to march, then it will be with one of those great [G7] corps. Why would I march with one of those other corps when my high school experience is just as good or better?"
You're darned is you don't highlight the top corps (due to marketing), and yet, if you do, you're darned because you place focus on the top end only.
I guess I just see things differently these days. Years ago I was all for high school band competitions and corps-style shows, and I still support that to some extent. But the movement in that direction has become reckless and self-centered in many instances. The public schools were supposed to introduce kids to music in a multitude of ways, through lots of various ensembles and musical styles. Beating the heck out of 11.5 minutes of music and drill for an entire fall just to clean it and compete at the highest level is what I call specialization of a very small aspect of music education, and frankly an over-glorification of a medium that was primarily funded by the schools for the purpose of football games.
I know there are students that love the competitive band thing. But there are many more that wonder why they can't just be in a marching band that goes to the football games for the sake of entertainment and nothing more. These are kids that have lives and other interests, yet they find themselves in these band because mom and dad want it, or because they do like to make music and enjoy the challenge, yet deep inside they would like to make some other kind of music and not just MARCHING BAND music. Many want more chamber ensemble, more jazz, more concert band, more musical, more orchestra, and so on. They don't always want to dedicate such a huge chunk of time to beating the crap out of 11.5 minutes of music for a lot fo the summer and most of a fall.
We can save the great American Drum & Bugle Corps, but to do so means understanding the difference between that and high-school/college band.
Drum corps = summer, no school, no classes, the corps have the kids 24/7 and have 20 to 30 staff members ready to fine tune and specialize while teaching 11.5 minutes of music and drill. The summer IS FOR specialization.
High School/College Marching Band = Fall, part of a much bigger picture, kids are in classes all day, homework, other interests, far less rehearsal time, far less staff, and different goals (comprehensive music education mixed with other arts and academics).
If we want to save drum corps, all the corps, then we need to change the focus of the fall. If high school students feel as though they are getting the drum corps experience in the fall, then there is no reason for them to engage in the summer. If they already have to raise large sums of cash for their fall endeavors, then how can they save money for summer? IF they are burned out from competition in the fall, why do summer? If they get exposed to high school competitions where there is a lot of "cheap" imitation going on (trying to be like the best corps but not even coming close), then perhaps their idea of corps is way off. How will they ever know?
Look, I love high school marching band and college marching band. I direct one. I love what music education can give to kids, regardless of what medium that education is taught from (marching, jazz, concert band). I believe a band director has the right to pursue what is best for his/her students. BUT, I also believe that it's a matter of FOCUS and truly understanding the comprehensive nature of one vs. the specialized nature of the other. If I had four weeks of summer training, 30 staff, a budget ONLY dedicated to marching band, and then 12 hours per day for 2 months to work on 11.5 minutes of music (and only ONE show for the entire fall), YEAH...my band would be amazing because we would have taken all the students' time and channled it to ONE thing.
Some of what irritates me (and I apologize for the rant) is that these arrogant G7 corps claim to be "World Class." REALLY???? Last time I looked, you have auditions, acquiring some very fine musicians out of the college ranks who are already good. They were good before you got them. You didn't have to teach these kids to read music, or start them on pitch and notation and rhythm concepts like an elementary- or middle-school teacher does. You use 30+ staff to do what a few band directors and maybe 3 other staff members have to do on their own. Your budget is entirely for the marching activity. You have the undevided attention of the kids, and not because your instructors are "World Class," but because the kids do not have CLASS! They don't show up at 4:00 PM, like they do for my college band, with their eyes glazed over after a day of math, science, biology, chemistry, history, music theory, etc. The kids don't go home and work part-time jobs after school, they don't go out on dates, and they don't join other organiztions or fraternities like they do when in high school or college. No, you (the all-mighty G7 corps) have these kids 24/7. Their focus is on ONE thing only.
So all these advantages makes you "World Class?" I guess funding your operations wasn't part of that definition. Let me know when you figure out how to be world class with your finances.
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ok, let's say this G7 thing happens and over the course of a few years most of the non-G7 groups fold, re-organize, or somehow sever ties between themselves and the G7. At this point you no longer have a source of ready-made talent from which to draw from. Fewer and fewer kids will have access to a program which can prepare them for a program at the level of the G7...they will have to have their own "remedial education" program...that takes time and $$ which they are already complaining that they do not have. Only BD and SCV are currently setup with what could be called a "feeder" organization (BDB and SCV Cadets)...the other 5 are going to have to build their own.
I guess the question is...so you have the G7 + 7 "remedial" feeder programs....how is it that 14 organizations allows more kids to participate than when I marched and we had almost 100 corps at DCI Championships....that's a lot of kids participating. Isn't this supposed to be about trying to include as many kids as possible....not excluding them?
So for all of the non-G7 corps...welcome to DCA :-)
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ain't broke? Don't fix it!
With DCI possibly going the route of the G7 and most likely extinction there will soon NOT be an issue....just ride this one out and be prepared to welcome some new organizations as they make the move to DCA and adjust their programs accordingly.
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After a year of Synths in the Pits of many corps I'm interested to hear yall's opinions on the new instrument. Who do you think used them the best? The worst? Why?
Did anyone forego usage of synthesizers this year???? Whoever that was, THEY used them best!!!!!
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Something about a llama?
ahhh, you must be referring to "Sperm of a Llama" :-)
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Just something I've noticed...
When someone brings up the poor tone quality of Gs the usual response is star 90-93 or another top corps from back in the day that managed to sound good while blasting. How is an argument justified by a small amount of shows in an era of many more corps and years with terrible pitch and disgusting sound? By using this logic then can't a couple Cadets, Phantom and Crown shows from this decade that were quite loud refute the "Bb is quiet" claim?
And before you ask no I haven't heard any DCI G lines live. The thing is through a dvd or computer or cd or any recording the volume will never be as great as in person but it'll always sound just as out of tune as it was in person.
I think that's the problem....unless you have experienced a good DCI G line in person you can't possibly have a frame of reference.....it is VERY VERY VERY different. I am not sure there are words that will ever describe it. It is like attending your first top-fuel drags....or the Reno Air Races.
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What, with G bugle horn lines, was the transition time like for horn players who had never played a G bugle? I imagine the top 6 or 10 corps would get horn players with corps experience, but would any so called transition time hurt the other corps in any way? Just asking because I have no clue.
when I started with a junior corps they just handed me a horn and off I went. I do remember it was EASIER to play than the stuffy F mellophone I was playing in high school.
I always thought that part of the challenge of a G hornline was playing in tune and getting those wonderful overtones going. If the overtones even exist in the Bb lines they just aren't as pronounced. If the stupid Bb horn plays in tune almost by itself then what purpose does the player serve????? Oh yeah....so that's what the synthesizers are going to be used for ;-)
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That probably has more to do with the dome than anything. This year was a great year.
nope, sorry.
I think my favorite hornline this year was Boston and I really liked what Troopers did this year....very nice arrangements. I didn't catch everyone else that did not make top 12 but those were the only 2 in the top 12 that kept my attention. BD was actually my hotdog corps......boring.... but I guess they won "high piano" so the've got that going for them.....yeah
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Can we get back to this please? thanks!
Hey Wayne.... you beat Kilties again ;-)
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crap-tastic....
lots of hot dog corps this year....I'm gonna get a tummy ache
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This of course depends on just how much the corps in question rely on the bingo game as a source of revenue and judging by the title of this thread it would appear to be a lot. So short term it probably means a lot more bake sales, candy sales, car washes and folks standing in intersections jingling change cans. It will likely also mean higher tour fees, audition fees, camp fees, clinic fees, etc. Long term it will require these corps and eventually DCI in general to reexamine their organizational structure and the very nature of the activity. Perhaps a regional approach would be more cost effective. This would allow more local kids to be involved because even though little Johnny may have the money to fly out from Ohio to attend auditions, camps and march the season in a Cali corps, he will not be of much help staffing a car wash in May. And perhaps certain staff members may have to look for a night job..
The big corps rely on bingo for MOST of their income...dropping the feeder programs will not solve it. Given the condition of the state economy I don't see any state grants forthcoming and the economy in general kinda dims the hopes of e benevolent city or corporation coming through...at least not for a long term solution. Maybe enough people can call in enough favors for a year or so but unless the budgets of these corps are reduced to a fraction of what they currently are the long term viability is not looking good.
Simply charging kids $6k is only going to result in fewer kids participating...the opposite direction it should be going
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shhhhh.... we are hunting wabbits....
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So...I was reading the thread about alcohol being served at Invesco the other night and I started to post my thoughts there, but decided I'd start a new thread:
Should spirits be served at drum corps shows? Perhaps. Maybe, just maybe, a couple drinks would help some of these people who are glued to their seat lose some inhibitions and actually cheer throughout the shows. It's not as if the seats in most of these venues are all that comfortable.
I am increasingly amazed at how indolent the crowds are. I've been to several shows this year, and about the only time people get on their feet is at the very end of the show, and if...IF...they actually stand up with 10 seconds left in the show, it's considered a HUGE crowd response.
I can complain all day long about how we're not being given anything to cheer for in certain shows; however, there are some real crowd pleasers this year with several places throughout the show where we could go bonkers.
Am I the only one who feels this way, or have y'all experienced this too?
Perhaps it's up to us drum corps loyalists to set an example when we go to shows, even if we're the only person in the whole stadium.
These young people have worked very hard for us. Let's give 'em some love.
You have got to be FN kidding....so you are blaming the crowds because DCI drum and bugle corps in its current state is boring and uninspiring? And your solution is drug the spectators (make them drink the red cool-aid?) until they do what you want???? Please go back and read what you typed and re-evaluate what the problem really is..... the emperor has no clothes.....
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Good question Joe....
Most of the full or nearly full open class corps are from the North East. I think it would be great to see some of these corps do at least one trip a year south to shows and then invite not only college but high school musicians and guard members with free or discounted tickets.
I am sure when these prospective musicians/guard see what Open Class corps can do, they might look at them as an alternative to DCI. I have never been to a southern DCA show being from Canada but my image of these shows are that they are mainly represented by the Class A corps. It would be great to see thes Class A corps fill their ranks and possibly move into Open Class. Having a Open Class Corps perform in the South would be the perfect recruiting tool for local Class A units.
Also corps from upper NY state have enjoyed many Canadians over the years filling their ranks. I know many of them who have played in Cru, Brigs & Empire and have had a great time doing so. Southern Ontario and Quebec is an untapped region full of great musicians and many have gone south to march DCI not always aware of DCA.
I know gas is the biggest concern currently but to encourage the development of Class A to Open Class will only happen with recruitment and showcasing what smaller local corps can be like.
Just my thoughts...
no open class in the south????? What about CorpsVets? And Carolina Gold was open class before they took last year off. Don't worry, class A corps will grow when it makes sense for them....membership and infrastructure are both important. It would be a nice problem to have a 128 members overnight but I have a feeling it would be pretty overwhelming.
State of drum corps manifesto
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I think you are looking at this from the wrong viewpoint...Try this on for size "I don't want to see Drum Corps that I do not like"...can you see the difference?
There is a very important difference, give it some thought.