FanLib
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Posts posted by FanLib
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Crown
Bluecoats
Colts
Academy
Blue Stars
Honorable mention to Mandarins
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Perhaps the question is, how many times does one need to see a show before it makes sense? I saw the BD show in late July and it made no sense to me whatsoever. After seeing it again in Indy, I caught on to the story, but I was not familiar with the music. I can honestly say I've had this happen with other corps, even with shows I really loved. I've had it occur at WGI a lot, where I'd watch a performance and say, weird, I have no idea what I just watched, but they performed it well, even after seeing a show multiple times in a season.
I think this is a valid question to ask if you expect to grow the fan base of DCI beyond the junkies on this forum. Not everyone spends their free time reading up about corps' shows. They just want to go watch and be entertained. Perhaps there is a magic balance that exists between abstract and overt?
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I am under the impression that Mark Sylvester left the Colts mid season. No idea why.
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Academy had their best year since 2011. I'm sure they are happy. Colts must be disappointed since they were so close last year. Troopers as well, but it's not as if there was unfair. If you look at the 12th place holder, Crossmen, their show was not perfect, but it did what needed to be done where it needed to be done. This worked well competitively. Also kids who March DCI are competitive, know that nothing is a given, and no one can promise them anything. When the dust settles, they still had the time of their lives.
They're also human beings who would like to know that their efforts are being appreciated, not only by the fans, but by the judges. They'd like to experience finals without ever questioning politics of DCI judging,
Sounds like it's been top 12 for many years, but why 12? Why not 15 or even just 10?
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Cadets guard is definitely busting its butt moving all over the field. So they're doing their part.
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CADETS are done , Was just a matter of time till other corps matched their cleanliness.
Middle of that show is terrible and slow.
Colts will not beat BOSTON , no brass , Bad guard , Bad show .
w/r/t Colts: Seriously? Bad guard? Bad show? No brass? I think many would disagree with you, including me. I'm hoping they surge and beat BAC. Like the Cinderella team in the final 4 kind of thing. Doesn't DCI need a story like that?
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Colts got rained on tonight. That could have affected them a little.
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I'd be interested in what some have to say about this. How do corps tour differently from each other, what kind of extremes are we talking about, and how does that attract/repel prospective members?
But this is probably for a different thread.
Someone needs to start this thread. Would be quite interesting.
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All the top 3-4 Corps have had pretty much the same staff designing the shows, teaching the MM's for years.
Until these guys die, retire, or go to some other Corps, they will position their Corps to win it all every year. And like lemmings, the pilgrimmage to these Mecca's will take on a religious fervor on the part of the winter True Believers to secure an open position.
Phantom Regiment, a wonderfully entertaining Corps this season, could have an All Star cast of superior brass, percussionists, guard this season... and they would still not medal.. No matter how well executed the show becomes. If the judges don't like your Show Design, it won't matter, You'll be SOOL for the entire new season before Memorial Day, let alone for the August Championships.
As a parent of a MM who is not in a top 7 corps, these statements, while I believe them all to be true, disgusts and saddens me. Too much money and time, too much pain and suffering occur in a season for this to be acceptable, especially the "no matter how well executed the show becomes."
The comparison of the Ivy League seems appropo, unfortunately.
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And just a quick observation on Crossmen, Colts and Troopers--might as well throw in Boston, even though they weren’t at the show. Am I the only one who thinks it is interesting that all these corps fighting for the last spots for finals rely on live singers while none of the top four do (I haven’t seen SCV yet, so I can’t comment on their use of a singer)?
I don't mind some of the singing, but Lay Me Down (Colts, sung by Sam Smith out there is the pop world), IMO, would be much more effective ballad without the singing or at least with less of it. The song is fantastic and a big hit with the younger crowd, so why not really take the opportunity to the max? You know, as in, give me chills Colts brass! It has the potential to do that.
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Random thoughts:
I haven’t posted on DCP since early July since I haven’t seen any shows live since that time. One thing I think is clear: for some shows , this year more than in the past, you just have to see live and in person (e.g. Bluecoats), and for that reason I have been quiet on the boards. That, and I don’t really enjoy huddling over my desktop squinting at DCI Live!
But …
Wow! What a show! There are years I admire, respect and am in awe of Blue Devils. Some years, like last year, I even enjoy them. This year, I admire, respect and am in awe of Blue Devils … and I really like the show! That guard is simply amazing! I am not a guard person by any measure. When I marched, I was a horn player, so I tend to focus on the horn line and drill (or body movements) of the corps proper. But with Blue Devils, I simply could not take my eyes off of the guard. OK, every once and a while, I would check out the drill, and there were some very interesting and innovative progressions, but still … that guard! I love how they keep those sabers in the air for what seems like hours for each toss. And the height of those tosses! If this was last year, Major Tom could have snatched some of those sabers when he was in low earth orbit! I remember back in the day when tossing 7s or 8s was a big deal and those tosses were reserved for big impact moments. I swear BD was tossing 10s and 12s all the freaking time! It was like good old-school guard on steroids! That rifle exchange from the step ladders to the field and back was just brilliant! And I loved how those guard members emerged from the pages of the books at the start of the show. Yes, BD is sometimes poo-pooed for staging their technical horn runs in such a way that the eye is drawn away from the parked brass, and that is true this year … until the last minute of the show which is pure run and gun. I loved it! Great show, BD!
And then there is Bluecoats. I love this show! A lot of cyber-ink has been spilled describing the innovations of this show so I will cut right to the chase. The new ending is spectacular! From the frenetic movement around the orbs like electrons around a nucleus , to the new and improved horn push, to the levitating of the horn player on the central orb at the end is a huge improvement over the early season version. By the way, a bit of trivia: the horn player featured on top of the orb at the end of the show is the same horn player who leaped off the ramp at the end of last year’s show. Now all that Coats have to do is have the guard run with that orb off a ramp with the horn player, and land in the assembled tuba section to really kick the GE into high gear.
As a WGI fan, 10s or 12s seem like a stretch to me. I'll look closer the next time. I'm distracted by the very long hair from BD guard. Same as last year. I did not understand their show concept at all. Only realized what some of it meant after reading on this forum. Loved Bluecoats though (guard and everything else), and thought Blue Stars guard was great too. Colts guard was in good shape I thought and would be even better if a few of their flag bits were more solidly in unison, but Troopers....not a fan of their guard/visual thing. Personal preference probably, but just not my thing.
The thing with the Bluecoats is, I can't tell if they're brass is giving all that sound, or if it's a mix of electronic stuff and brass. I guess getting it mixed that well is the point (to the point you're not sure), but I'd like to know it's them and not a speaker too. Otherwise, wow, cool show.
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I'm curious how most corps handle injuries during the season, and I'm also wondering if injuries are pervasive in certain corps but not others due to better training regimens.
I've heard of kids getting sent home because they have a certain overuse injury (stress fracture, feet problems, other things like this). While in the case of a stress fracture, they're likely not going to heal in time to compete, some of the other injuries seem like a few days rest would do them good. It's made me wonder about overtraining, as is seen in elite athletes and whether the lack of down time is harming corps rather than helping. I've not seen the threshold for injuries causing a MM to be sent home articulated anywhere, but perhaps it is for some corps. I don't know if certain corps have different schedules than other corps that allows more down time or not, and whether that helps/hinders in any way. I will say I've heard rumors that a top 5 corps had more downtime because the members were just better to begin with and fewer hours (relatively speaking of course) were needed to clean the show. I don't know if it's true or not.
Anyone have knowledge of or experience with this? Thoughts?
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@BlueStainGlass do you know what part? I see auditions to be in Ft Wayne.
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the question is location of practice. Michigan has had several guards fold so if they can get toledo or a little north and recruit Michigan they have a chance. If you followed wgi Ancora was a Detroit area based group that did well in IO but isn't fielding. Maybe a strong IO year will do the trick.
Agree!
Please Glassmen organizers: get some more definitive info out there soon. Location of practices and practice schedules/travel expectations will be critical for college students who might consider your winterguard. Ohio has competitive winter guards (notably Onyx in Dayton, Pheonix in Toledo, Juxtapositon in Central Ohio, Artistry in Blue in Akron/Canton, Pride of Cincinnati) but they'd welcome another option.
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Fan perspective only, not an expert, only my opinions. I was at this show. Pio is definitely better than last year. Colts show is very entertaining, still evolving, but in my opinion, their brass is stronger this year, and their guard is good. Troopers: why did they perform after Colts? Isn't order based on last year results? Right now, I think their guard looks rough and the overall show idea isn't moving me, but thought they sounded good. A lot of white fences across the field. Blue Stars: liked the show mostly, but I think I need to see again to take it all in. Their guard is great and the juggling guy is fantastic. Bluecoats sounded great. I can't help but see similarities between their guard stuff from last year even though using different equipment. I like Bluecoats, but I didn't feel the, omg that is awesome feeling. Scouts...meh....IMO a fairly classic type show but they seem to perform it pretty well. I was surprised they'd not been scoring higher. Overall, perfect weather and enjoyed the show. Wasn't high enough to see formations well (it's a relatively small stadium anyway). Can't wait to see how they improve by the time I see them next.
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You may have the letter of the law here, but not the spirit of the law of reality as it is in 2015.
Very few DCI finalist corps do not expect guard or percussion members to have WGI experience, particularly in the guard world.
Having paid or arranged more than enough sponsorships for several dozen DCI finalists over the years, I speak from personal experience as well as one who had some input in the audition process. I can particularly underscore that this is the reality in the top 1-10 even if it never appears any where in print. Ask the vets and you'll get confirmation/affirmation.
Agree 100%. And WGI starts with auditions in September followed by their own camps in November. So guard members are juggling that time with corps auditions as well as expenses. And the thing is, they could very well audition for the very same staff at WGI as DCI.
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Time is money too. If you drive and it takes 9 hours to get there, that's 18 hours of your life gone, on the road, sometimes in the dead of winter and snow.
It sounds like many of us are lucky enough to be able to foot the bill for these things, and that's wonderful. But, when a kid is in college, I think I might view the bill differently. We have different levels of expectations for adult, college students. Not the same as mom and dad are going to support your competitive sport so you stay out of trouble, stay active, have goals, etc. But, I have been that kid who wanted to do something bigger and couldn't because of cost and access (and controlling parents too, but mostly cost). It's not fun. Or fair. I guess that's why I tend to ask the questions about how to make things more accessible, especially when I know they can have a positive impact on those who participate.
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Excellent post Horn Teacher. Another point the OP has to consider is that members are being asked to pay less than half of the cost of a member's participation. The corps raise the rest through fundraising, donations, performance fees, etc.
Some corps have begun to reduce the number of camps that members must attend in favor of using tools like SmartMusic. This not only reduces member costs of traveling to camps, but reduces the corps cost of operating the camps (rental of facilities, feeding everyone, travel costs for staff and admin, etc.). This helps keep member costs from increasing.
Whether it's half the cost or the whole cost, the price tag is the price tag. I am glad to hear that some corps are reducing the number of camps. Definitely a good step IMO.
I don't view this subject any differently than for a child who wishes to pursue additional avenues in the athletic world. Maybe not so much in the team sport arena (although that area can be financially frightening as well), but most certainly in the more individualized sports (competitive figure skating, skiing, equestrian, and maybe even track and field, although I am less familiar with that specific area). I can speak from experience in terms of the figure skating world; my daughter was involved in the activity for about 9 years, beginning at the age of 6. We NEVER pushed her into it -- she decided for herself early on that she wanted to do it. We thought "O.K. -- cute. Nice little activity. She'll outgrow it, though." Well...4 years later, she and her Ice Dance partner qualified for USFSA (United States Figure Skating Association) Junior Nationals. Soo...ice time...coaching...outfits...more ice time...more coaching...outgrown skates...travel and housing for competitions...Plane flights to Nationals (and later Senior National Sectionals)...Test sessions...more ice time...more coaching...more...more...more... .
I agree with you! BTDT too (with gymnastics)! At least drum corps has a down time, unlike most sports these days. I still support looking at how things are done in order to save time, money, resources.
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Our New Jersey HS is mid-size, and not top flight, and charges the following:
- $50 School District-imposed activity fee
- $50 to the Band Boosters
- $100 Deposit which is returned if you sell $100 worth of ads for the home-tournament ad-book
That's pretty cheap. I'd add that there are other expenses that are not easily calculated, for instance, getting to and from band camp/practice in the summer, esp. if there is no parent home during those hours or the kid doesn't have a ride. And sometimes band camp itself, the instrument and its upkeep (although that's relatively minimal usually), food at competitions or other events (yes, you could pack, I know), uniform items like shoes, gloves. I know some of this may be one-time, but for a kid without means, those upfront costs can be prohibitive.
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I realize drum corps does not appear to be for those without disposable income, despite the fact that some MMs do work hard to make the money for the summer and/or crowdsource, etc. But, have there been many discussions about the costs associated with drum corps, especially the cumulative nature of them for mostly (relatively) poor college kids?
I'm thinking of the costs to go to repeated camps. There's the cost to travel there and the cost of the camp. So, let's figure a tank of gas at least, sometimes two, plus camp fees. Camps seem to occur at about a monthly rate. That adds up. If you're a college kid trying to work to pay the bills, it's very hard, and yet, they love drum corps and feel pressured by staff to attend the camps. Not to mention this is right before and after the holidays when perhaps the kids and the parents are shorter on cash (not to mention, near crunch time and final exams for colleges). I feel for these members.
As a parent who is planning right now for college expenses within the year, who is counseling her child to minimize debt in college, I guess I find some of this setup a bit elitist, though that's a strong word and I don't find the people of drum corps I know to be elitist. Yes, of course there are costs involved. I'm not saying it should be free. But I am saying, is it all necessary? Seems like this would be a wonderful place to start using some technology for virtual camps and whatnot. No, it's not like the real thing, but if it saves the kid $200 or more for a weekend, then maybe it's worth exploring.
And as a side note, even high school marching band costs seem to be escalating beyond a typical kid's means. I really hate this. I've supported my local HS band generously, but I do think that curtailing some costs just to make the activity an option for those without independent wealth would be worth it.
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Are there schools that rehearse that much? I would think it would be more around 8-12 hours a week.
I'm talking about OSUMB, not high school.
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I saw the Oz show in person last night, since they performed at the end of the Buckeye Invitational band comp. It was very entertaining. I don't care for the UM references and think OSU and their fans take it way too far, all the way to obnoxious. That said, they did a good job. However, the way the announcer talks of them comes across as the OSUMB way is THE way of doing MB in college. It felt condescending to me.
As an educator, I think requiring MB kids to practice 25 to 30 a week is ridiculous. I would prefer simpler shows and kids spending that time learning their discipline rather than complex shows with memorized music. It's out of balance to me. To Brad T., when do you go to class if you spend nearly 70 hours per week either working or in rehearsal?
I'm sorry to say that some folks attending the show said that some OSUMB parents were attending that night to see their kid because they could not afford tickets to a football game. Again, IMO, out of balance for higher ed in general.
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You are right for sure. But truth be told, this is a teenager whose brain is not done baking yet. Many of them don't see things at this mature of a level when they're 16 or 17. Us older folks realize these things. And thus, my comment about approaching from both sides: corps members AND band instructors.
So aside form corps members "sucking it up" and being the bigger person here, what could high school band directors and guard instructors do better to deal with the situation of a returning corps member in their band?
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I think it's the desire to keep growing that is possibly the most frustrating part. When you feel like you're not progressing or growing because of the quality of your band/guard, that is hard to swallow.
Edited to add: quite possibly, the tone the very young new instructor takes and the differences in how he runs the guard versus the former instructor may be making the situation worse. Besides asking the corps members to think about how they act when they return, perhaps the high school directors/instructors also need to consider their responses to these kids. Surely there is some decent middle ground that would work in many situations.
What would it take?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I don't so much have a problem with the top 12 being in finals, but the problem I have is with finals being on Saturday (although not opposed to some expansion). Many fans are dealing with band camps during the week and cannot get to prelims or semi's. Finals is their only option, so they can't see everyone or most everyone. Have they ever had a Friday through Sunday set up?