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True... I agree with most of the points you made regarding things I brought up. And you got me on the "born into" thing. :) My whole thing is that it isn't the dance that is hurting the activity. I really like dance in guard... and I know many of you don't and that is opinion. I think there are a few different points being debated. I agree that many groups don't have the basics down before they move on to different levels of skills. I believe that is true in many activities... just watch YMCA basketball... kids are trying to dunk before than can shoot a free throw. I won't arge that point because I agree. But I don't think that deficiency is a result of dance being added to guard. I think dance can be a great addition... it just needs to be clean and done properly. So I think we agree on half of the debate... things need to be cleaner in the activity as a whole (some groups are doing it well). I think the other half we will have to just agree to disagree about and realize that we love the activity and arguing about it is just part of the game. Andy p.s. G... the thing with 88 Suncoast is more relative to the time. I look at that show and see costumes, theatrics, dance, and some props (used to enhance the story and change costumes (not uniforms)) and I see a guard that does many of the things a lot of you criticize. And a note... I love that show along with all of those great Suncoast shows... how about those hornlines too!!! WHEW! Take care.

Hi guys, I hope everyone is doing well. So this topic interests me a whole lot. This is my take on it... I like where color guard is right now. Now with that being said, I also like the color guards of the past. A lot of people point out the faults of "modern" color guards. In my experience that is a very easy thing to do. Yes... there is a lack of clarity in some guards work. OK... I buy that one... now let's define that. Why? How are the demands different to have changed the clarity. Drill. Yeah... there is one, the drill has changed a GREAT deal in the past years. I really don't think that a guard could march around like the guards of old to that drill and attempt to do anything at all. Dance allows the members to cover more ground and also adds a very interesting aspect to the activity. So does this drill/dance combo affect the work? I would think so. Is this a good change? Opinion... there is NO right or wrong. This is actually one of the more interesting ideas to me. The drill has become harder for hornlines/drumlines and the tradeoff that is observed is more widely accepted than the equivilant changes in color guard. I know I know I know.... there is more to the "dance controversy" than that. Many of you argue that dance isn't a result of need but because people do it just to do it and shake things up. I don't argue that point... my belief with that is that it isn't always bad. If it is good and executed well I like it. Now here is my biggest beef... generalizations. Not all guards fit into modern or old school or traditional or whatever you want to call it. Example: I know many of you that are posting on this topic admire what the guard from '88 suncoast did. But!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT DID THEY DO IN THAT SHOW!?!!?!?! Dance, props, dance and props. But simply because it is from your era you view it as innovative. Imagine this.... what would you say if a guard did that same show now. What would your response be? And be honest. Also who are these modern guards? Example: Flo's guard had an amazing show this winter (I know I am crossing winterguard/drum corps but bear with me) and what did they do? They did dance when it fit and they did equipment when it fit and it was beautiful. Sure, there are guards that don't have it together but I am guessing.... and I could be wrong... that there have always been guards like that. Many of you mention some of the great guards of the past but what about the not so great guards of the past. Compare the top hornline now to one of the average ones of the 80's and I am sure you will get a similar finding. You can't compare apples and oranges. So all I am saying is to be fair and don't take the approach that because it is different it is bad. If guard or drum corps for that matter was the same as it was 20 years ago I would say that our activity isn't all that great. Taking a side on an issue because it is the side you were born into never helps anything... drum corps rules! :) Take care guys. Let me know what you think. Andy

Nancy - I watched the '80 27th Lancers dvd again playing special attention to the guard. GET IT!!! :) There are some very cool moments in there, my favorite was the flag exchanges while the rifles were in the middle on the 50. Very awesome stuff. And I saw your closeup. My girlfriend, who marches guard and has since she was quite young, loved it. Her favorites were the toss were you caught with one hand on the 45 and the one were the rifles tossed to each other. Here is my view on the whole situation... I think it is VERY important to have the basics down. But at the same time there is a balance. Most people that do winterguard/drum corps/marching band aren't looking to know every in and out of their specific part of the game (not saying this is good or bad, just saying that I think it is true). Most people aren't going to devote their lives to it like I am or many of you have done. They are just looking for a fun experience. So I think it is important to find that balance. Young people today like precise equipment work but they also like groups to break out into a dance feature to hip hop music. Now I do agree... if people were exposed to stuff like the work done by the 27th Lancers they would love it and want to do it. But at the same time, people want to do dance and they want to do stuff that is more prevelant in contemporary culture. So if that brings more people into the activity.... then awesome, we can use that bridge to expose them to our activity. So my personal view is that dance is cool and if it is done WELL I don't see how it is a bad thing... the key is that the equipment work isn't forgotten/lessened because of this. What do you guys think? Andy

Hi Sally, thanks for your reply. What you say makes sense and don't worry... I am young but I most definitely own and watch the '80 dvd. I understand what you are saying, I guess my "belief" would be that it is fine and good that dance etc. is being added into color guard but the trick is that it must be done well. What I don't agree with is adding or doing something simply for the sake of doing it. I feel that it is cool to add stuff if you have the basics, whatever they may be, undercontrol. I would say that dance does have a place in color guard (along with other things) but as with anything... the quality of the performance is what determines its success. Good dance = good color guard and bad dance = bad color guard just like it would be with good/bad equipment work. Cuz afterall the "back in the day" guards marched and that is just another form of movement (aka dance). It's all relative. I very much appreciate your input Sally and am interested in what anyone else thinks. Take care. Andy

Hi, I had a question. I am not a guard person and don't consider myself to be very knowledgeable about color guard. My knowledge comes from viewing (I attend many contests), people (I know many people that have a lot of experience in guard from many different eras), and from being a part of activities that incorporate color guard. So here is my question... some people on here have said that what the guards are doing is not "color guard"... what does that mean? What era represents "color guard?" Because to me... it seems that one's definition would soley be based upon their personal experience. I am sure that someone's experience from the 30's would be much different than someone from the 60's and the same with the 80's and the current era. So what you do you consider to be the "essence" of color guard? Maybe I am just raising a question just for the sake of it... but to me one could easily say that people from today's era could say "guard from the 70's was not real color guard because it didn't incorporate dance and theatrics into it. Finally color guard has evolved to a point where it is truly color guard" I am not saying I believe this but it is something to think about. I guess what I personally like to see is growth... there is a limit on what color guards could do under a certain style so they changed (maybe not for the good and maybe not for that bad)... this has been true forever! So maybe that is the "essence" of guard... it is always changing and growing and evolving. If the guards today were doing the exact same thing they were 20 years ago... I would be let down. Instead of being color guard it would be a stagnant, antiquated activity. Just some of my thoughts... what do you guys/gals think? I am curious. Andy

Hey Flo, That's a great review. Look forward to seeing you guys at WGI in April. Andy