ContraFart
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Posts posted by ContraFart
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16 minutes ago, Brass Lover said:
I will say what I please goes both ways. Besides you've been unleashing your contempt for Blue Devils all summer, it's sickening to see that kind of #####ing over and over.
If you see it as contempt, then that is a you problem. I don't have contempt for the organization or the marching members and I don't believe that you find a post of mine that shows that contempt.
If anything my issue has been with judging and a system that resulted in one corps winning 60% of the time. I happen to think a competitive season means less when it's over at Broken Arrow.
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1 minute ago, Brass Lover said:
Yes that's correct. Now stop #####ing about it on this forum, no one feels sorry for you and you have added absolutely nothing new to your repetitive complaints.
I will say what I please. I'm not breaking TOS and sometimes it leads to good conversations and I even made a few friends this summer. If you don't like it, don't engage, but keep your contempt to yourself.
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5 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:
Not wrong, no. This very point has been argued extensively elsewhere on these boards.
That actually makes me feel better. That I'm not in left field like some people make me out to be.
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29 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
you keep wanting however to refer back to your time....which i think means the system in place at that time. the judging system as well as the activity has evolved from then. like it or not, field sheets don't rule the day like they used to.
So I'm not wrong in saying that championships are won in the fall and winter, not the summer anymore
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30 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
no because if the kids don't perform it, design means squat
My entire argument is that the top 4 perform at relatively the same level. So it's not performance that is winning, it's design
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38 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
i've read every one of your posts since you flipped out about WGI percussion. yet you keep going back to the same things over and over, that have been explained to you over and over.
i do look forward to Bones alumni next year. several mentors of mine will be participating
So I am either saying the same thing over and over again, or I am constantly moving the goal posts. Which is it?
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2 hours ago, karuna said:
My prediction: BD edges out Crown in brass tonight. (You can thank Mark Hoskins now ).
If BD goes from 4th to 1st in brass, especially against the near perfection of Crowns brass, I will freaking lose it.
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6 minutes ago, Vuitton said:
You're right. They are deserving of the silver, and so are Boston and Bluecoats.
I think DCI doing this medal crap was so stupid. Either you're 1st or your not. Now it puts so much weight on being in the top 3.
When I marched, I would have been elated being 4th, because it would likely mean we would have beaten Cavies, Regiment and Star. Nowadays people act like 4th is the worst thing in the world. It's not.
Well if one corps is going to win 60% of the time, instead of promoting some sort of parity (which I know is impossible), they just gave out more prizes.
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1 minute ago, Vuitton said:
Yeah, I've also been saying that all season - it takes a show like '08 Regiment, '11 Cadets, '13 Crown, '16 Bloo and '18 Vanguard to beat them and no one has one of those shows this year.
I thought BD (and Crown) out executed Bluecoats in 2016 but Bluecoats out-designed those two by 100 miles. They changed the activity for ever as it pertains to uniforming and prop usage. They deserved it.
BD is just so good that it takes one of those monumental shows to beat them and those shows only come around once every few years.
If that is the case, how is it a positive thing?
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20 minutes ago, MarkHornGA said:
I think this is a complex question. It’s not that black and white to me.
Everyone who participates in DCI at any level of the organization knows that it is a competitive activity. I enjoy it for the whole product and don't usually care much who wins or loses. But I am also a casual observer. For those deeply involved, the motivations are likely varied. Some might care more about winning, others might be in it more for the experience of learning, growing and teaching. I imagine it's a bit of all.
Design, which also includes music, being weighted so heavily has created a situation where corps are innovating and pushing boundaries which is ultimately good for the activity in my opinion. Participants will learn more and grow more when asked to perform a show that pushes them out of their comfort zone.
If design wasn't weighted as much, then you could argue that corps wouldn't emphasize design as much which could lead to some stagnating.I appreciate that perspective and it does give me something to think about, but there is still something about winning it on the field that means something to me. If 2015 Crown can lose it on the field, how come it now seems impossible to win it on the field?
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1 hour ago, Vuitton said:
Finals night in 1988 is still one of the happiest days of my life. Winning was such a thrill. Being the best was such a thrill, until.... Until you, over time, realize that you just won a numbers game. Were we the best corps of '88? I think so. But I also think Vanguard was the best corps of '88. The numbers just worked in our favor. One judge scores us 0.1 lower and them 0.1 higher and we tie. One judge scores us 0.1 lower and them 0.2 higher and they win. Two corps in '88 were worthy champions. One corps is champion because of numbers.
A lot of judging is subjective and it's always been that way. It is what it is. In close years, I think it could have gone any way. In non-close years, like 2023, I do not. To me, BD is clearly the best corps.
Don't let the judging ruin it for you. I very rarely listen to a BD show. I listen to mostly Regiment, Cadets, Crown and Star. While listening to a show, I never think about what place it got. I think about how it made me feel seeing it live. Those are the memories. Like Garfield '85. I don't think about them winning, I think about how much was in complete awe of them. Same goes for many.
I didn't feel this way about the Cavies run in the ots. I thought their shows were breathtaking. The drill was the coolest innovation in the activity I have ever seen. The percussion was sublime and while I never "loved" the horn books, I thought they fit the shows very well.
There are a couple of things different about the Cavies run though. First I think while they were dominant, I believe 2002 was their only undefeated season. Second, Cadets and BD were always on their heels and won 3 or 4 times in that decade. It still always felt that there was an open competition that was up for grabs. The season wasn't over in Broken Arrow.
It doesn't feel like it's an open competition anymore. I feels like DCI belongs to BD and if anyone wants beat them, it would take something that changes the foundation of the activity (i.e. Bluecoats 2016 or SCV 2018). A universally loved and perfectly performed show won't do it anymore and it makes me sad
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8 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
Your favorite shows aren’t losing, they are being outscored.
Is it a competition? If they are being outscored they are losing. But I understand what you are trying to say.
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3 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:
I just think you need to take bias out of it. A favorite doesn’t mean it’s the best.
Well since the corps I think is the best every year is not the same, I do not think it's bias.
My favorite show this year is not what I think is the best show either.
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8 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:
Aside from me sitting down and going through each show with you and describing things in detail, or you going and talking to each judge, what more do you want?
Based on the criteria of each individual caption that is judged, BD accumulates the most points to win. I’m sorry you don’t like it. Go be a corps director and propose rule changes. Idk what else to tell you. BD designs well and because of their storied history, they attract top talent in the activity for performers.
It doesn't matter, I have lost all faith in the concept of competition in this activity. I just have to accept the fact that BD is going to win and my favorite shows are going to lose and any knowledge I have after 30 years means nothing because I have no I idea what I am talking about.
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Just now, MarkHornGA said:
You say that as if a commitment to year-round excellence from a corps staff is a bad thing. Show designers aren’t evil. They put together a show that challenges performers and gives them something to aspire to. If teams aren’t working in the off season to deliver a high quality show then they might be in the wrong field.
7 out of 11 judges, judge either effect or analysis. Should design have this much weight on the score?
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1 minute ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:
Yes and it’s the judges job to determine which one is better. And that’s BD
And the judges do that almost every year and I do not understand why.
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5 minutes ago, MarkHornGA said:
I agree with you. Watching the top four two nights in a row I was equally impressed and captivated by them all. To me, any of them could be a champion.
In my non-conspiracy mind, judges clearly see finer details in BD that give them that .10-20 edge in sub captions. Details that I am not trained or able to identify. If that’s the case, then I put the responsibility on myself to learn the finer details and perhaps I will also be able to spot them and understand the system better.
I take the AA perspective. If I am disturbed, something is wrong with me.
So my 30 years in the activity and learning from DCI hall of famers really does mean nothing.
I guess to beat BD, you have to be better than them in the fall and winter and out design them before you even have auditions.
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Just now, TheOneWhoKnows said:
On an individual basis. But as an ensemble BD kicks butt.
So does Crowns, so does Bluecoats, do does BAC.
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2 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:
There is some truth to this and it’s something I’ve pushed back on in my judging. But at the end of the day, execution still matters and readability of design comes with good performance.
But doesn't higher field scores mean that other corps are executing better? At least musically?
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1 hour ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:
*This*. People forget that variety is key when it comes to GE. And I personally know one of the effect judges tonight is big on variety of effects. We don’t want to see the same effect over and over again the entire show.
BD manages to create a show with so many genres of music and styles of visual movement that add up in the variety of effects column.
So the inference is that no other corps do that.
BD is the only corps that has variety in musical styles and visual movement. They have the only design team that can create great GE in the minds of the judges.
Yes I am being sarcastic, but that is how it sounds when people explain why the judges love BD so much.
Someone said something like this not meaning to the other day, but I am beginning to think it's true. BD will win or get 2nd every year as the status quo, for anyone to beat them it takes an exponentially special year.
Maybe I am just stupid and 30 years around this activity means nothing, but I really thought the top 4 corps were relatively equal in talent and design, but I am wrong. There is something about BD that the judges find superior that I will never understand.
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2 hours ago, MidWAmericanArts said:
Of all your gripes man, I’ll never understand this one. Have you ever been a performer or taught? Individual field level skills are VASTLY different from box skills. It’s like saying VP and VA are the same.
You put yourself through hating BD so much every year. You need some hippie garden of love in your life, my friend.
No what that means is that he designers have more control over the outcome than the kids.
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3 minutes ago, resipsaloquitur said:
Which "BD" are you talking about? The 6-7 or so Hall of Famers we saw on the field tonight (with a new addition)? The staff and the MMs who are the most humble and hard-working ones I've ever met in this activity? The corporate entity? The 501(c)(6) non-profit? The youth education leader? The one that allows kids aged 8-22 to march all 3 levels of the activity plus special needs? Please be specific with your complaint so the complaint department can correctly address your query. 🤣
Or how about the blow hards on DCP that think that BD is the only corps that has talent or works or plans or has hall of famers on their staff?
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3 minutes ago, MikeRapp said:
They are superior. I mean look at the gold medals. I totally respect their craft, I just find it a bit cynical. It’s the same concept over and over again, even some of the same arrangements and passages.
I get that Crown has their things too. Cavaliers, Cadets, even Coats. But 95% of BD is intentionally reflective of things they did last year and the year before. It’s the same concept over and over again, and until the judges stop rewarding it—they obviously are not gonna change.
Well I for one am ###### that the judges continue to award it. How can you be 4th in 2 out of the 3 performance captions and be nearly 1.5 points ahead? That is asinine to me.
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1 minute ago, MikeRapp said:
Not gonna change. BD plans every single aspect of their existence to win the technical points that amount to gold. They recruit the most skilled kids, pay the most to the best teachers…heck they have the best sound system. They are a winning machine, they have the goose that lays the golden eggs, and until that doesn’t work anymore they’re gonna keep mining that same creative concept. Over and over and over again.
So no other corps plans? No other corps has great teachers? No other corps has talented members? I am so effing sick and tired of the superiority complex of BD.
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DCI WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS SEMIFINALS
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
You speak on that very well. I appreciate your insight. I wonder how deep conversations like these happen at Januals, or if DCP is the only place where we philosophize about this.