mjoakes
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Posts posted by mjoakes
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24 minutes ago, dcifanforlife said:
Troopers only two top 12 (11th 1986 and 12th 2009) in past 31 years so this is really a stretch.
Or it's a really dark, Dark Horse, and just a fun thing to think about right now with no shows yet even in competition.
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Was at the Scouts camp yesterday as a volunteer on the food crew. I can initiate a big reveal to everyone here that pans used to bake pasta are tough scrubbing if you let them sit for a while.
I am in no position to evaluate intelligently the music and drill I saw during evening rehearsal. I liked moments of the music, but it was chopped up quite a lot because it was a rehearsal focusing on specific, short sections of the show. (Although, I'm also a bit old school, always hopeful for a recognizable melody - or at least a tune I can remember.) There was some very interesting movement on the field that appeared to avoid (thankfully) prancing.
More interesting to me was how impressively rehearsal was managed. The staff-mm interactions were professional, respectful, and, as far as I could tell, productive. Staight-forward recognition of good things and calm explanation of errors and how to improve. Maybe all corps are like this. And if so, good. But I was glad to have observed this in the Scouts. Really looking forward to their resurgence this season.
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Just now, mjoakes said:
Indy
Evansville
Muncie
Minneapolis
San Antonio
Prelims
Semi
FinalsWait. Was this a ruse to get us to state on social media when we would not be in our homes?
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Indy
Evansville
Muncie
Minneapolis
San Antonio
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5 hours ago, jjeffeory said:
All in good fun.
These things change a lot. I completely disagree with BoaDci, but we're here to have fun.
Honestly I don't see Academy dropping out of finals either, but I hear Madison is very much improved from last year, and so is Boston. Who is going to drop? It's a mystery. This could be one of those years where the top 15 or 16 corps could make finals on any given night, and that's a good thing!
All in good fun, yes. Thanks for getting this kind of sentiment out there. For my tastes, there's too much of a sort of a serious challenging of people on their predictions. Despite so much uncertainty and an almost absurdity of trying to pick specific placements for August.
For predictions generally, it isn't a bad thing to build in some surprises and low odds placements. (See NCAA bracket.) So good for BoaDci dropping out The Academy and bumping up Madison. I disagree with him, however: Madison is clearly at 8 or above!
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5 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:
I go in, stay awhile, leave, come back for a while...I do this on Thursday in Indy. San Antonio, I'll do my best. This old lady needs a break and a walk nowadays.
If I recall correctly, the intermissions in San Antonio are long enough for good breaks without missing any of the shows. Keep the sunglasses handy if you step outside.
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Nice recovery by the end. It's those old kids in the school play commercial with a WGI context.
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Top 3: SCV or Cavies.
4 thru 7: No idea; biggest dark horses (= surprise) might be medalists from last year dropping down
8 thru 12: Scouts
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I'm gonna check out the Vegas odds first. But my gut says someone from the field.
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Very interesting. And also very helpful - to me, at least. Thanks for posting the detail. It wasn't too much detail. It was helpful explanation.
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22 minutes ago, DCIphotographer said:
New here but I'll give it a shot :)
1. Crown
2. Blue Devils
3. SCV
4. Bluecoats
5. Blue Knights
6. Cadets
7. Cavaliers
8. Phantom
9. Crossmen
10. BAC
11. Blue Stars
12. Academy
13. Scouts
14. Colts
15. Troopers
16. Oregon Crusaders
17. Cascades
18. Mandarins
19. SOA
20. Pacific Crest
21. Genesis
22. Pioneer
23. Jersey Surf
Thanks for suggesting something. It's not the way I want it to end up, so you can't possibly be right.
Also - and serious now - thanks for going out to #23. I'm afraid I often overlook so many of those other corps, even though I also often really enjoy their shows and the talent on display.
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Just now, Brian Porter-Szucs said:
The original post is a great question, and I don't think it has been answered yet. In a sport like gymnastics, a good TV broadcast will have an expert who will offer insight on why a particular routine got scored higher or lower than another. We might learn, for example, to watch how a foot gets placed on the bar, or whether a knee bends more than a certain amount on a particular move. Viewers might be told that a particular flip was done with significantly more elevation than another flip, thus making it more impressive. It would be magnificent to have some insight of this nature about what constitutes "excellence" in the various DCI captions. I know that judging is subjective, but it isn't random. The judges are clearly doing more than saying to themselves "that was cool!" Some of the stuff they are looking for is obvious to even a casual fan: a snare line that isn't quite in sync, a dropped flag, a musician who plays a wrong note, a marching line that goes ragged. But very little of that obvious stuff is evident among the really good corps. We sometimes read comments on this forum about a show being "dirty" or a particular night's performance being unusually excellent. Clearly the people who say these things have specific observations in mind. I realize that are probably a thousand small things, so maybe someone knows of a resource online (or even in print--yes, I'm a dinosaur who still sometimes turns to books) that can offer some help. I guess I"m looking for the sorts of specifics that go beyond vague comments like "corps X had a higher level of difficulty" or "corps Z had more innovative design" or "corps Y has a much better sound."
Or maybe I'm wrong, and it really does all come down to some judges saying "that was cool!" :)
As I mentioned in an earlier reply, I think I learned some things so far. But the gymnastics analogy described here is quite good. Watching a show, what kinds of things might I look for, or listen for, that would improve - even if a little - my ability to understand a good performance from a medium from a not so good?
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Anyone know if the public is welcomed at Westfield High School to watch from the stands?
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Are the judges paid fees? Decent fees for what they do? Put up in JW Marriott suites with room service picked up by DCI?
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25 minutes ago, Lance said:
i don't pretend to know anything about case studies, but dci uses rubrics for their grading.
and the supposed point of a rubric is to remove the need for the holistic scoring you're talking about here.
it's the whole reason that rubrics exist: to judge each individual product directly off of the language in each score box instead of judging the product in comparison to something else.
I use rubrics for case studies. It's just there's still some subjectivity, and I tend to me more rigid earlier rather than later.
All this is educational. For me, anyway. I suspect I'm learning I will just continue to watch and enjoy the shows.
It also means I am likely to dismiss some of the snap judging done in the stands when those around me talk as though they can precisely evaluate the likely scores more than is probably possible. Dismiss might be too strong. I like the commentary of the fans. It's the assumed precision of knowledge that I don't pay much attention to.
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30 minutes ago, Cappybara said:
It might be easier to understand that these scores aren't made in a vacuum. From my understanding, the judges score a corps a certain way and then all subsequent corps are scored in comparison to each of the preceding corps that have already performed (not completely, but that's where you will see the difference between an 88 and 87)
It's why you often don't see a corps get a 100 in a caption if they aren't the last corps on the field and a reason why many people would like to see a randomized order of performances in order to get more variability in scoring (and, of course, to moan and whine about it later)
So would a number be jotted down in an official way for each corps when the performance is over? That matters, I think, if scoring is anything like evaluating a set of case studies. My early scores are always a bit tougher than my later scores. I even go back and update a few - to improve consistency - after I've finished the lot of them.
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Three weeks from today, DCP will have its first postings after we have seen actual performances. In prep for that, anyone interested in offering up a brief - brief - tutorial on how judging works?
I’m not a doofus, but also not qualified (nor even interested) in the details necessary at the judge level. Rather, I’d like to be a little more intelligent about what I am seeing and hearing with respect to how scores are determined.
Primarily, I want to enjoy the shows. So “be a little more intelligent” is an important qualifier.
To put this in context, here is this: I’m a long-time university professor. I know the difference between student work that is (say, for example) 87/100 vs. student work that is 93/100. But the difference between 87 and 86 or 88? I’ve no clue. Or a student scoring an 89 gets a B+ and one scoring a 91 gets an A-. That’s how it works. But honestly, in so many cases, the quality of what either of those students can accomplish is essentially indistinguishable.
In 2016 Coats were 97.650 and BD 97.250. Crown 97.088. Is that just the way the numbers shake out and everyone knows that? Or is there some sense that qualified people really can determined the Coats were 0.41131% - yes, that’s less than 1/2 a percent - better than the Blue Devils? (BD was 0.16685% better than Crown.)
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7 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:
unless the title is "A Drumcorps Fan's Dream - Part Dos" and it's the Madison Scouts... then a little bit of pretense is okay
I recognize this as one of those objective truths. Go Scouts.
And speaking of diverse cultures, doesn't the Scouts show graphic look a little Klingon like? I think so. The Scouts are taking cultural diversity galaxy wide. Good for them for thinking so forward.
http://www.madisonscoutslive.com/mainsite/2017/04/last-man-standing/-
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7 minutes ago, chris7997 said:
Like Western values? And what are those Western values, who decides them and how is that free speech if it's so limited to only a narrow range?
Fair question. Freedom. Freedom of religion. Freedom of speech. Freedom of enterprise. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberation of racial minorities. Liberation of the oppressed. Western Civilization took part in the abolition of slavery. Democracy. Science. Technology. Medicine. But I'm also referring to Western (not eastern) music, art, writing, poetry, etc. etc. Western values of charity, temperance, etc. The list is huge.
This make good sense, even if there is an obviously politically-incorrect weight on Western things. Other cultures have bright as well as dark elements to their cultures, too. One could do something non-western without it being dark or tragic.
Sources of cultural things can get pretty fuzzy, too. This is no place to debate cultural development, but didn't much science and math come to Western Europe from ancient Greek sources largely sustained (and some further developed) by Middle Eastern societies?
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This is a fine topic for discussion here. chris7997's original post did not indicate any judging of the shows, performances, or talent. And he anyway replied a couple of times that he is only looking at the themes and not the shows. Of course, a dark-theme might turn into a heck of a show this summer.
And yes, our reaction to themes is at least in part a matter of personal tastes. Are we now not supposed to comment on DCP based on personal tastes? Good grief.
I don't have a big problem with the dark themes. Some seem pretentious - if not preposterous - to me. But I am not going to get too worked up over what must be a tough task between designers, directors, and their attempt to appeal to their members and fans. Because I am not so worked up over it doesn't mean chris7997's perspective isn't a legitimate one to toss out here.
More interesting to me would be some intelligent study of how these dark themes align with the backgrounds and demographics of many of the millennials or compose the mms. No, that study isn't at all worth it. I just mean to say I'm curious about it.
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1 hour ago, George Dixon said:
The production company wanted to do a second season but was unable to find a network to carry it.
Thanks for the info, George. It that was widely know, or communicated elsewhere here on DCP, I obviously overlooked it.
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Anyone have updated information about this show for the 2nd season?
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29 minutes ago, gentle123 said:
1. Devs - the odds are in their favor. If they aren't 2nd, they're probably first
2. Coats - they are the reigning champs, but have yet to prove that they belong at the top. A questionably dirty finals performance has left some with doubts
3. Vanguard - a 50th anniversary push will be enough to get them out of their 4th place rut but not much further. I think devs and coats have had more going for them in the last 5 years than SCV
4. Crown - Out of the top four, they have had the most volatile/varying placements since 2013 (1st, 5th, 2nd, 3rd). Its hard to predict where they end up, but consistency is key and they have not shown it.
5. Cadets - they haven't given us reason to believe they will pull off anything astounding, but the talent is undeniable. I don't anticipate them dropping as far as people expect, but i don't expect them to make any huge moves
6. BK - anything could happen. Their percussion section is undeniably strong, but a number of people felt that last year's show design was a swing and a miss. They have the talent but need to push back in to the top 6
7. Cavies - seemingly on the rise with a lot of talent. They just need to prove that they can keep consistent with last years performance and solidify their spot
8. Academy - coming off their first finals appearance, this corps will be hungry to solidify their spot in the top 12. Now that they know where their potential lies, they can be expected to take their consistently amazing show designs and add a great level of difficulty to it
9. Phantom - A consistent contender in the 7-10 placement range. They've been relatively quiet in the last few years and haven't shown signs of ramping up
10. Stars - A consistent 7 - 10 contender (I admittedly have not kept up much with the Blue Stars)
11. Boston - People have been hyping this corps solely on the staff changes that have been made. Staff changes will be one of the least decisive factors in pushing a corps forwards, however I believe they will battling it out with the other corps in the 9 - 12 range.
12. Madison - Again, another corps who has had varying placements throughout the years. It's always a good bet to expect Madison on finals night. They will surely be pushing the envelope to affirm their place in the top 12Thanks. I had lost track of the idea that this was the Predictions space.
Academy at #8 is on the bold side. But good predictions lists need something like that. I worry the d--- word in the Coats explanation is only going to prompt someone to prolong our agony.
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3 hours ago, BlueStainGlass said:
What are the thoughts of the alumni and fans on starting moveins much later than the groups they want to jump?
It's a good question for a discussion forum. Success during the season is a result of an awful lot of factors interacting in complex ways. I'm skeptical of arguments that assign too much weight to any one.
What Shows Will You Attend
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Any idea if that kind of thing June 20 gets to be a crowded event? As in, you need to be there especially early?