ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar
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Posts posted by ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar
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DCI = Marching band
I mostly agree, but there's differences in the competitive landscape and programming that can't be ignored. I'm not talking instrumentation either.
You're allowed greater freedom in BOA. If your show design sucks and the scores tanks, the eighth graders coming into your program aren't going to notice or care. There's no financial penalty for missing a regional final or Grand Nationals finals. The only thing that matters is creating a show that's both fun and educational for the members, as well as something that's fresh/creative for the judges (many of whom are current instructors/writers for DCI groups ... they're looking for ideas to steal).
The pressure is greater in DCI. If your design sucks and the scores tank, prospective members will notice. There's more of a financial incentive to scores. You have to please most of the following groups of people to survive: members, judges, alumni, non-affiliated donors, sponsors, HS kids, "legacy fans," parents, and people who have never heard of drum corps.
I know this discussion is mostly about using the term "BOA" or "bando" as a pejorative toward certain drum corps shows, which I think is dumb. It's a cheap excuse for people to complain about props (which started out as more of a drum corps thing), electronics, and other things they don't like.
I see value in BOA/Marching Band shows, and DCI designers do too, but to say that there's absolutely no difference in designing for each medium is naive.
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I never said the OKC Bombing could "only" be tackled by a BOA band, just that it would be difficult to program into a DCI show.So one person said that a show about the Oklahoma City bombing could only be done by a marching band and not a drum corps. I ask if that's really so, given that a drum corps just performed a show about the 9/11 bombings a few years ago.
Also, Madison's 2011 show isn't really "about" 9/11 in the same way Lake Park's show is about the OKC bombing ... or, at least, they're presented in two completely different ways.
"April 19, 1995: To Bind The Nation's Wounds" is a show that lets you know that it's serious from the get-go. There's an overwhelming sense of dread through pretty much all of it. There are no real applause moments, just a single piece of music.
"New York Morning" is a show about modern New York that doesn't really acknowledge what happened on 9/11 until the second half of the show (the newspaper thing is way too subtle to be picked up by the audience). Even then, the show has all the usual beats in a drum corps program: brass features, drum features, fun visual moments.
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And are those the same thing?
In another discussion, there was this brief exchange:
I have seen numerous comments this summer referring to one or another corps' show design as "BOA" or "bando". On a couple occasions, replies to such comments have requested clarification, but that's never forthcoming. So maybe giving the subject its own discussion would help.
What do those terms mean to you? Are they interchangeable? (After all, BOA is the most notable but certainly not the only competing high school marching band circuit. And there are also non-competing high school and college marching bands.) Which current or past DCI shows would you describe with those terms? And more importantly: why? Is it just a difference in quality and difficulty of performance? Is it affected by but separate from quality and difficulty of performance? Or does it have nothing to do with that? (That is to say, can a show be of terrible quality but in no way "bando"?) Is it always a pejorative term, or can there be positive connotations? Are there ways in which corps' designs should be more like BOA?
Good questions. I'll try to address each term separately ...
BOA
Hard for me to answer most of your questions since I haven't really followed BOA in over a decade, and I don't really know where major drum corps personalities teach/write/consult anymore.
I've mentioned this before -- and this is just paraphrasing -- but on some podcast, Mike McIntosh said something like "Putting together a BOA-type show is like shooting an indie film ... whereas putting together a DCI show is like putting together a Michael Bay-blockbuster."
Considering the number of shows your average DCI corps performs in, along with the presence of many old school fans, I think this quote makes a lot of sense. With the exception of the avante garde in the top 5 (Blue Devils, Bluecoats, SCV this year), most drum corps show themes are accessible.
Compare this to a lot of BOA units, which perform in fewer shows and have more freedom to explore difficult ideas. Among the show themes I've seen explored:
- The Oklahoma City Bombing
- George Orwell's 1984
- A Futuristic Game of Capture the Flag (this is the actual title and theme of Center Grove's 2003 show ... which is actually pretty fun in the later half).
There's also Marian Catholic HS, whose band director/staff go out of their way to explore some pretty dense concepts, on top of throwing some really difficult music at the kids.
Bando
A term I use for people who look like a train-wreck when they march, or for anyone who doesn't have their shako low enough.
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At 9:25pm ET, INT will become the first corps in DCI history to perform their program simultaneously at two different locations.
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So ... after Teal Sound folded mid-tour a few years ago, where any changes made to DCI's evaluation process?
Does anyone know what the current process is like?
This situation is disturbing considering A) Coastal Surge is folding with only two weeks left on the season, B) their online 990's haven't been filed since 2012, and C) they had similar issues last year.
I saw a tearful plea on YouTube from one of the British members to raise $28,000 in less than 24 hours. For a kid to be put in that position is pretty messed up. I hope he and the other members get an opportunity somewhere, even if it's not this season.
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Realistically, I don't even know what good it would do for them to try to find another corps with an opening due to an injury or something, since we're only two weeks from Indy.
A lot can be learned in two+ weeks, even if it's not a full show.
Even if I'm wrong ... DCA is another option (if they're able to stay an extra month).
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The way placements have been bouncing around this year, I wouldn't say that with 100% confidence until Semi's are over.
I hope they make it in. They can use my post as bulletin board material.
I think the banter of Drumlines in the battle should be towards each other and in a playful "oh is that all you've got manner." But to be playing games on your half without acknowledgement of the other line is quite disrespectful. I encourage bringing in props like a pillow to say what they are playing is putting you to sleep. And if you are gonna do crazy antics, at least play better than the other side.
I won't throw the "disrespectful" label around. DLB is still a new thing and groups are going to test the limits of appropriate taunting. I really don't think Academy set out to offend or disrespect the Scouts. I wouldn't be offended if I was a performer.
With that said, I (as an audience member) was pretty annoyed and distracted by their repetitive and obnoxious shtick. We got the joke early and often each time.
If you want to mess with your opponent without annoying half the audience, at least be more clever with your shtick. Do a yoga session while they're playing. Or limit the crazy stuff to 1-2 members.
(Sidenote: I'll agree that Madison came off as stiff, considering they played a double drag hip hop exercise and a show segment ... neither of which translated to DLB too well. Kudos to Academy for allowing more movement/showmanship in both routines.)
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Next time you do a drumline battle have some respect for the other corps! You didn't see the scouts running around taking selfies and playing games during your turn. They stood at attention and gave you the floor during your performance. poor form Academy poor form.
They'll have plenty of time to take selfies from their stadium seats at finals.
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From what I've seen at a couple of shows:
BLUECOATS: fusion
BLUE DEVILS: whimsi-cool (it's cheating, but I don't care)
CADETS: colossal
CAVALIERS: struggle
COLTS: noir-ish (not fully noir)
CROWN: devastation
MADISON: showtime
PIONEER: expansion
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Do we have to do this every year? You weren't calling out Bluestars show as "Bando" when Scouts were beating them earlier were you. You are the definition of a sore loser. I loved Scouts show in La Crosse and again at DCI Minnesota. Great Stuff. My 14 year old son can't get enough of them. He is smart enough to recognize that there is more to a show than what you see on the field, and said to me on the bus back home when scores were announced, "yeah Scouts are awesome but Blue Stars have a better overall product." It's true. They do have a better show top to bottom. I know your homerism won't let you accept that, but the reality is the Scouts, while putting on a very entertaining show this year, need a design team that can be competitive in DCI, and they currently have one that will keep them fighting to stay in finals. Scouts have MAD talent. Time to bring in some folks that can push that talent to the top.
You were at DCI Minnesota? Cool! Maybe you should write a review ...
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Updated to include the remaining corps.
Yes, that was probably the worst day of 2010 for me................(except for when my uncle died.)
Last Surly I had was a Fiery HE##.
How is it?
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You should have skipped writing this pointless "review", and had more beer.
Right ... how dare I write about the experience I had in the review section (after going out of my way to make it clear that this is a "limited" review ... both in the #### header and in the main text).
It's clear that you need a hug. Since I can't oblige that, I'll give you a pity "like" instead. I hope it brightens your day.
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Can somebody enlighten me on why Michael Gaines doesn't write for them anymore? and if he's permanently retired from writing for Drum Corps. I mean I imagine the paycheck is pretty good. Only reason I can think is that he doesn't think he can add any more to the activity.
He's still active and writes and consults for indoor groups/marching bands. Specifically, he's pretty involved with Aimachi.
I'm sure someone closer to the Cavaliers will elaborate better, but I'm thinking the stress of writing for a hyper-competitive touring group with a limited schedule (that probably got in the way of marching band season) wasn't worth it compared to what he's currently doing. The paycheck was probably good, but it's still only one group.
The stuff he did is going to be analyzed for years/decades to come.
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It's a solution in search of a problem. It will only happen if either organization is in dire straits. The possibility of not making finals does not equate to dire straits, no matter how much some alumni from a certain corps love to mewl.
Based on past threads ... this thread is going to degenerate into a fight between people who think gender-exclusive groups are somehow discriminatory vs. people who look for any excuse to complain about Political Correctness (as if it's an organized movement) ... both of whom are wrong. Both corps will continue to operate as they are and this dumb discussion will resurface every year until a fundamental organizational shift happens.
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The Disclaimer: this is a review of my experience last Saturday. I was helping a previous group and wasn't able to watch shows until Madison came on. A buddy and I also went on an extended intermission to bike to the Surly Brewery/Beer Hall. Apologies and respect to the corps I missed.
Also, one minor note: none of the pictures are mine. I was going to post some photos I took, but filter software just added photo-sharing sites to the list.
The Prologue: I've gone to DCI Minnesota every year since it's first run in 2010 ... the hellstorm year. To have an inaugural DCI regional in your backyard get cancelled mid-way through the World Class schedule was as surreal as it was depressing. The weird charm of walking through crowded concourses mixed with fans, staff members, and miserable corps members in half-unis wore off after a couple of hours.
The next year, we finally got to see the full show (with the caveat that Minneapolis was more hot/humid than Kuala Lumpur that day). The tradition continued every year until 2014, when a stupid Imagine Dragons concert forced the show to get moved to La Crosse, Wisc. The temporary La Crosse regional was actually a fun time, but I was ready for the show to return.
The Experience ...
6:54 - Madison Scouts - My friend is a Scouts alum and wanted to see what his crew was up to. I saw the show from the side in Mankato, but was willing to give it another view. The concerns about another non-finals year don't appear to be justified, IMO ... but there's still plenty of season left.
This is a throwback show in almost every way despite the Bb horns and use of A&E. For the most part, it totally works. The Boerma arrangment allows the music to breathe as it is, not compartmentalized into the conventional drum corps package (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but gets a little old after a while). The music ensemble is killing it and the color guard is slowly coming into the Gene Kelly role nicely.
Visual still seems to be the thing holding them back, but the emotional progression of this show (out-of-towner comes to big city ... learns the ups-and-downs of show biz ... becomes a gentleman and a movie star) completely trumps last year's (people in suits take drugs and now everything is in color ... also, something about a clock).
The new staff knows what they're doing. If the organization retains the same core group (instead of freaking out and allowing another huge staff turnover), they'll be fine. I think Madison stays in finals this year.
7:10 - Intermission at Surly - Apologies to BAC, Blue Stars, and Phantom, but we planned on spending a chunk of time at the Surly Beer Hall, the newest jewel of the industrial area along University Ave and Hwy 280. It's only a 3-5 minute bike ride from the stadium.
Constantly packed, but there's an army of bartenders and wait staff who know what they're doing. There's a respectable kitchen, but we didn't have any time for food.
Here's what's on tap, half of which is only available at the beer hall. I had the Dampfbier and #merica ... both of which were box 5.
8:19 - The Cavaliers - Rode back to the stadium and caught the men of Rosemont. I made the mistake of watching an early season video of them working on "Run Boy Run," and assumed the worst. This performance put my concern at ease, but unfortunately, I think this is a programmatic step back from last year's show -- which had a rich theme to draw ideas off of and embraced it's campiness.
The "Game On" idea seems great on paper, but I'm seeing enough specific moments in the show that support it. I'm not seeing any clear "game(s)" that are being interpreted. The guard appears to be playing a futuristic mish-mash of Running Man (see Schwarzenegger filmography), wrestling, parkour, and competitive raving. I know they're trying to interpret the general idea of "competition" or whatever, but I'm not getting a clear concept of anything.
A while ago, a BOA group (Center Grove HS) did a show literally entitled "A Futuristic Game of Capture the Flag." I only caught glimpses of it, but the show seemed to work. It was a specific idea that -- as weird as it was -- was enough to build a show from.
Back to Cavies' show ... honestly, as much as I despise most instances of narration, "Game On" is a show that would benefit from it. Find a member with a rich, Marv Albert/Michael Buffer-like voice and have them do some sort of play-by-play, color commentary, or announcing.
I might be a little harsh on this show considering I just came back from a bike bender. Musically, the Cavaliers hornline has graduated to sounding "lush" (especially in the Bruckner opener ... man, that's cool) and the battery continues to faithfully throw-down McIntosh's tasty beats. I'm also really surprised by the low guard score. I thought they performed what they were given quite well.
They have a great instructional staff and won't get passed by anyone currently below them. I'm interested to see how things pan out between them and BK.
8:36 - Carolina Crown - I said earlier that the Cavaliers hornline "graduated to sounding lush." With respect to them, there was a clear level change with Crown. We weren't sitting in a good spot (lower bowl, on the 10 yard line ... outside of the PAs, so I have almost no pit/A&E critiques) and my friend insisted that this stadium "drinks sound" (more on that later).
Once Crown came on, however, I still felt the visceral impact I've been enjoying from them over the years. The opener hits you with devastation. Yes, the giant "Abandon All Hope ..." flag was a little unruly, but it was still effective. The extended drum break that goes into "Dies Irae" is relentless, as is the Copeland interpretation. And then the "Adagio in G minor" ... ballad of the year, in my opinion. The "9th" closer still seems a little abrupt and missing something, though (which seems to be a popular opinion on here). Not sure what GE boosts or changes can be done.
When we watched Crown, an old friend from my early drum corps years stopped by and watched with us. She's an on-and-off visual instructor, and was pretty critical of the constant movement they were doing. I personally didn't have a problem with it: they have a great movement vocabulary to work with and they are one of the few corps who can pull this sort of dance stuff off. It also helps that they're not wearing those ungodly terrible teal pants from last year.
I'll get to the point: despite it's 1 or 2 flaws right now, I love this show. I love that the hornline continues to explore and push musicality in this activity. I love that the drums have meat to their book (and that they're achieving). I love the guard's characterization, and especially the fabric that's used. The simple use of stark colors and specific types of fabric can add so much.
Regardless of where they end up, this show is a monumental rebound from last year's visually cluttered mess of a show.
8:53 - Santa Clara Vanguard - First time I've seen Vanguard live since 2011. It was weird seeing the Sybilski influence on their marching style, as well hearing Phantom's old music arrangers do their stuff.
But this is still Vanguard show ... a great Vanguard show.
Ever since Blue Stars 2010, I had been longing to hear a similar misterioso type of music in a show. The use of Bach's "Invention" does this spectacularly. As the show progressed, the eerie yet refreshing musical arrangements continued to develop and never lost steam. And yes ... there's a theremin solo.
Visually, the top group of corps know how to explore the entire field and stage guard/music ensemble creatively. Pete Weber has them marching frantically, but there's also a lot of good staging going on.
I'll need another viewing or two to really breakdown this show, but I think Vanguard's visual package is catching up to their music (though their brass is apparently underachieving, which I think will change later in the season).
9:10 - Cadets - Speaking of needing another viewing ... there's so much to chew on in this show.
After watching Phantom 2002, I longed to see a top 5 group perform Shostakovich's 10th again. Was a little surprised to see Cadets answer the call, but I'm so #### glad they did. The music ensemble displays so much dynamic range, and everything they do grabs your attention. When they're at fortissimo, you can feel it. When they're at pianissimo, you can still feel it.
The "Mulholland Drive" ballad didn't have me tearing up like Crown's "Adagio" did, but it's still an effective moment that does a lot of cool things in a condensed setting. It's a meandering, listliss, dream-like ballad ... and it works.
I mentioned ability to explore the field, and Sacktig's drill work this year is unrivaled as far as I'm concerned. So much is happening, but everything supports the music.
Overall, there's a type of maturity and focus to this show that I've never seen from this corps (at least IMO). "Between Angels and Demons" was my favorite for it's inventive execution of a simple idea. The ideas in this show are a little more nebulous ... but the music and movement do their work, and the performers deliver. I think this has already overtaken 2011 as my favorite.
I always mention that I'm not much of a Cadet fan, and that most years there's some fundamental design misstep or groan inducing moment. There's none of that. Even if you don't care about the numbers or vocal effects (which I think help), these kids are throwing it the #### down.
9:27 - Blue Devils - Last week, I got into an argument on a drum corps sub-reddit with someone who didn't like 2014 Blue Devils, saying that the programming was "pretentious" and "too-cool-for-school." I vehemently disagreed.
That being said, if he wanted to use that argument, he could have maybe used this year's show as an example (though I would have still disagreed).
I know a lot of people on DCP like to rag on this post-2007 surreal era of BD programming, but I'm still a sucker for it (didn't care for 2009, though).
I love how BD balances whimsy with their traditional B.A. performance maturity. For example, the snares start the show perched up high on the latter props and play through some insane split parts. The whole show is full of moments like this.
The show uses guard soloists as character types/motifs that exist in literature. One puts on a giant cape/shawl and portrays the "evil queen." Another portrays the good girl/princess who vanquishes said queen. There's also a Mad Hatter/general fool-type.
For being a BD show, it's very tounge-in-cheek ... with the infamous K-Pop segment being the prime example. I was expecting something groan inducing ... but I thought it was kind of cute. The good girl/princess is looking for a love interest ... rather than play some sort of lush ballad, they put on some "I Like You" by GOT7.
With that said, is it as effective as what the other top groups are doing? Not really. I dig the show, and I think it's really accessible, but this is a different year with corps out for blood.
Overall, I think Cadets have too powerful of a vehicle to pass by August.
9:44 - Minnesota Brass - The last of the three hometown corps finished the night. I was surprised by how clean it was. Quite a few hornline holes, but I'm guessing that will get fixed.
Having Meehan as an arranger is already paying off for the corps. Really digging the overall musical arrangements. A little different vibe from years past, but it's working. The battery continues to do their thing well and the guard is providing some quality characterization. I'm looking forward to what this show does in Aug/Sep.
The Final Thoughts ...
- I love having a regional here. I hope TCF Bank stadium continues to host a show. I also hope the new U.S. Bank stadium a few blocks away in downtown Minneapolis hosts some shows as well. Maybe a DCI finals is in order?
- My friend was insistent that TCF stadium "drinks sound," and in some ways he's right. It's a two-tiered shallow bowl stadium. But pretty much all of the top 5 made their presence felt.
- Minnesota has proven itself to be a fantastic hub for drum corps. There's great housing sites, an elite stadium with another one on the way, an accommodating metropolitan area with lots to do (and drink), and support from four local drum corps.
- Last year was one of my all-time favorite years after watching the top-15 in the theaters. Hard to say where this year ranks, but it's shaping up to be a good one.
- I'm picking Cadets to take it all. There's a type of athleticism and performance urgency that I'm not seeing from anyone else.
- Good luck to everyone on tour. I will see most of you in the theaters.
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Legends at St. Michael-Albertville Middle School West (arriving Friday)
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I saw a complete list on Facebook a few days ago, but I think it got taken down. Several of the top groups are arriving earlier in the week, including:
- Blue Devils (Eden Prairie HS ... arriving Thursday)
- Cadets (Chanhassen HS ... arriving Friday)
- Crown (River Falls HS ... arriving Thursday)
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I see that this year's Phantom thread has overtaken the annual Madison thread for volume of infighting. #midwestisbest
There needs to be alumni-on-alumni verbal violence for that to happen.
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Alright then, please enlighten me.
I'm curious as to how explaining why I think, based on my current read and opinion of a show, a corps has become a 6-8 corps, and could finish as low as tenth makes me stupid.
Please, be my guest, and explain to me how that is stupid.
I don't think your original post was stupid, but good God, was it groan inducing. You could've gotten the point across without the "Ph-" prefixes and smug "come at me bro" tone of your original post. You think Phantom is having a rough patch of seasons? Wow. So edgy.
With that said ... There's worse places for a former champion to be than 10th place. Ask Madison.
Also, despite the so-so show designs since 2013 (I haven't seen this year yet, so I'll withhold judgement), they still have a great instructional staff across all captions. Most corps can't say the same.
You may be right about the design team holding them back, but I'll withhold judgement until August.
My first read will be at DCI Minnesota. I'm optimistic it will be ahead of the past two years.
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I always hyped indoor rain-out performances, though they were always in field-houses with crap acoustics.
A full size concert auditorium? That sounds fun as hell. It's a shame that it had to happen for the bando show, but whatever.
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I wore my "Shut Up And Play" T-shirt to the Alamodome in 2007 I believe. We had seats adjacent to the staff seating area. Hopkins looked right at me when the Cadets were performing and did not look amused. That shirt was a RAMD product. Ah - those were the days.
I need that shirt.
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I was there.
They were noticeably better than 2014. I couldn't get a great count, but counted 48-52 or so horns. They sounded decent in the lot - they have a much more ambitious book than in the last few years. I was also excited that the show branched out from their typical programming. Man of Steel could be pretty cool by the end of the season.
Did they deserve an 8.6 in brass? Well, it was a rough performance but it is their first show. Plenty of time to improve.
Anything else you'd like to know?
Did you notice any improvement with their guard? I'll go ahead and assume their drums are fine.
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I just want to remind those staff members out there reading to be courteous when they are watching shows. I attended two shows over the weekend and both times I encountered staff not acting their best.
If you're going to sit with the paying customers please remove your backpack before wacking 6 people with it as you try to get some free seats. Some people bruise easily.
Please be quiet. I'm more than happy to hear your opinion after the performance. It may be the corps I marched with or my best friends kid you are criticizing, or worse yet, it might be my kid.
Show some class, and clap for everyone. When you sit on your ### not clapping while everyone around you is giving a standing O, you look like a tool. When you're wearing your corps name all over your shirt, it makes me think less of your organization. Hopefully, this isn't what you're teaching your members.
Seriously, be quiet. Tickets to these shows are expensive, and I didn't pay to hear you. Next time I won't be so nice.
<s>But people on staff, especially guard and visual staff, are so cool. You should be lucky that you're in their presence.</s>
I agree as well. Some people go into "tour mode" or "rock star mode" and disappear up their own ###.
If you see some over-tanned twenty something with a staff pass behaving this way, call them out on it.
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i'm offended that you're offended about his potential offense taken to a potentially offensive comment you made.
Who offended who in the what now?
What makes a show "BOA style" or "bando"?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
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That's the one.
A couple of my Oklahoma-based friends competed against Lake Park in some regional. They talked to some LP kids after the show, who were really apologetic and apparently thought the show went too far. My OK friends didn't seem to care and actually liked it.
IMO, it's both boring and goes too far ... but I'm talking about it 15 years later, so whatever ...