deftguy
-
Posts
699 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by deftguy
-
-
I attended a band competition here on the west coast in northern california. One band in exibition was of BOA caliber. I wasn't impressed with a single band there. Even the one of BOA caliber. Dirty feet, lack of movement follow through in the color guard, an annoying hang over with the keyboard bass(completely overshadowed the tuba's), sqeaky clarinet solo's played through a mike, shreakie flute solo's, dirty color guards, it was a mess to me. Marching band in 2005 is less interesting than marching band of the late 70's and 80"s to me. I think the level of excution amoung the top bands was better then than now, especially the color guards.
-
Here's an article about that first WGI championship in Schaumburg, Ill.; I remember the audience reaction to their show being mixed, with a lot of people scratching their heads over what the Seattle Imperials did: Quasar wins first WGI Olympics
I remember seeing the Imperials as WGI western regionals in 1978 I believe(I was just a little kid). The Kingsmen had a great guard that year, and had won just about every show that year in local competition. I thought they would win for sure until the Imperials stepped on the floor. I was mesmerized at the beauty of the movement and smoothness of their show. Everyone had phenominal dance skills, and they did amazing equipment book that utilized the body so cohesively that they seemed like one object. After seeing them, it was readily apparent to me that the Kingsmen would be in second place that day. I think alot of folks were scratching their head even then. I have said this before, and I will say it again. What the Imperials guard did back then would put most of todays guards to shame.
-
I have read this whole thread, and for some reason it doesn't move me one bit. Aaron really is the future of DCI thinking, and Hoppy and him will get along swimmingly. So BOA and DCI merge or partner up. I don't really care if they do. For those folks that want to enjoy pure drum corps entertainment, they'll just migrate over to DCA where the product has managed to grow and evolve without losing its indentity. All the band-o lovers can stick with the new incarnation of BOADCI and everyone is happy. I think us older folks should stop fighting for DCI because it appears we are wasting our time.
For those of you who still like drum corps as it is, see you on the fifty at your nearest DCA show. B)
-
Four ex-Cavies from the same era on this thread, and not a SINGLE one of us is willing to give up the name of the guy that dropped the rifle.
Doesn't that tell you something??
I ain't tellin, But I am glad he didn't pick up his rifle.
:P
-
I agree, you guys had an awesome guard book that year. Uncle z, it wasn't that other corps "couldn't" do the work....they (our staff) wouldn't let us keep it in. As you remember, those were the days of the tick system and every little mistake or drop was counted against the entire corps. Our staff would not let us do anything that could cost the corps points. We started out with a "meaty" guard book but ended up watering it down the whole season. Many tosses were taken out as well as the Holly Hawks move we had in the end. We were marching forward in a wedge with a flag in one hand and a rifle in the other......that part was kept in, but we used to toss the rifle, chop it with the flag, switch the flag in the other hand then catch the rifle with the other hand. I was ###### that they took it out! Not enough people could do it consistantly! But hey, we had to stay ahead of you guys! :)
Malibu,
I agree with you that other guards could do what we did, but if you saw the other things that Brubaker had in mind, it would have scared the crap out of you. Some would not believe that this WAS the watered down version of our show. Instead of just giving up on the difficulty factor, Steve worked us to death to get it right. I think we pretty much threw the tick to the wind during the year, but we were also under some pressure to get what we did right.
Uncle Z, I guess it really doesn't matter to me that we don't get the credit we really do deserve. There were alot of good guards that year. I am perfectly satisfied with the memory of the cheers we got in 81. This year unfortunately was the beginning of the end for the dedicated rifle line. After 82 they were pretty much gone, and the only exception was us.
-
Again, not a slam in any way, but Madison's show didn't start out with a rifle toss across the ENTIRE DRUM LINE!!!!!! ^OO^
Having been there, I think that the audience response has a lot to do with the fact that the WGI winning guard was put on display.........doing a lot of guard work that other corps just COULDN'T even attempt.
And that audience response pretty much typified the ENTIRE season.......so I wouldn't exactly attribute it to regional homers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, mobrien and deftguy! :P
Uncle Z you are right. Everywhere we went that year they threw babies at our guard. The powers that be pretty much let Brubaker go wild and really pushed the guard forward that year.
-
I would have interacted with more members of the colorguard and corps. I was extremely shy, an out of towner, and a consumate workaholic, and I spent more time getting everything right than interacting with everyone else. I did my best to change that when I joined the Renegades in 2004
-
Come on, Matt. I'm talking in generalizations here, not speaking to individual corps. Maybe it's just another generation gap coming through, but I don't think it's any secret that the mass appeal of corps in the 70s and 80s was much greater than it has been throughout the 90s and 00s. I'm sure that all corps' staffs try to achieve a balance between their push for success and their desire to entertain, but all too often crowds now days are entertained by the overwhelming degree of technical prowess that corps display instead of being entertained by a show that they can relate to on an emotional level (although there are some corps that do seem to understand the latter concept and are attempting to keep that delicate balance from leaning too hard on the side of demand/technique...ala Crown).
I'm not saying that corps today aren't entertaining, but what is considered "entertaining" today is just not what it used to be. I know, I know...save me the speach about yesteryear's shows being boring by today's standards, but sorry...I'll take a 1978 or 1980 finals lineup anyday over most any year since 1990. Like I said...I'm sure it's just another generation gap rearing its ugly head. I won't condemn todays corps nor their designers as they are doing a great job, but I would sure love to see a shift in design so that the music comes first, the audience is the target, and everything else comes a distant second.
You have got to be me twin brudda
-
I am not sure that is absolutely correct. When I watched Hartowicz throw his old Enfeild this summer, he released and his right arm(or left depending) went skyward. I thought that was odd since I have been watching the guys put their arms down for a while now. I meant to ask him about it but now wonder if or when the change came.
Are you sure he wasn't just following today style. I know for a fact we did not put our arms up while I marched as a constant practice. Strickly to the sides unless otherwise written in. Uncle Z example was from 1982, in this case we did lift our arms. Look at 80,81 videos. You see the toss, arms to side, catch with slight head bob.
-
Double Doh!!!! B)
-
Technology <**>
-
Here's picture evidence, courtesy of Miss Malibu.... B)
Thanks Uncle Z, your the best uncle there is
-
Nancy,
The Cavaliers were strickly arms to the sides guys. Only occasionally did we throw up the left arm during high tosses. When I do it now with the Renegades, it feels awkard and strange. My muscle memory still wants to take my arms to the sides, so this is something I continually work at.
-
This is a great WEST vs. EAST stuff
That would be the equivalent of the cavies’ color guard in the 80's. Every body is just doing bad high school drill team. The judges’ sheets were not able to capture movement. Cadets on the east cost didn't move correctly until MID 90's OUCH.
Our guard was not trying to be ballerina's, we were into just movement and not dance at all. I think it might just be a little bit harsh to characterize us as bad drill team. To use todays standard of dance as a comparison to what was happening in the 80's might be unfair. We didn't really know what to do with this whole stylistic change back then. All of this was new to everyone except the BD colorguard.
-
The Reveries drum major took off her hat and danced to "Bill Bailey...she had long blonde hair. I believe it was 1965 but not the type of dancing we're talking about.
We danced, but hard crisp dance almost all the years I marched in 2-7, but nothing like today and certainly not with ballet slippers....
Nancy,
This guard was a sight to behold back in those days. I was just a wee little kid back then, but I knew they were completely different from every colorguard I had seen up to then. It was like watching the Joffrey Ballet with silks, rifles and sabres. Everyone had perfect technique, everyone could spin all pieces of equipment, they moved with a smoothness unlike anything I had seen in comp guard. They beat the Kingsmen, Blue Devils, and every other guard in competitition by a pretty good margin. They were WAY ahead of their time and I have yet to see a dancing guard that could touch them even today.
-
Second!
I would third that! Not only that, but I would add that the Seattle Imperials cologuard could dance circles around the best of today. As much as I dislike dance on the field, their level of acheivement was astounding, and they also had great equipment skills to boot.
-
Another thing that helped us move up in 1985 was not only the great staff we had, but the great talent that came along that year. I know in the colorguard there were so many really talented members that joined in this year, and that made it easier for Steve to take us to the next level.
-
Really? I am a horn player, and when I think about the gaurds from Cavies, BD, SCV, Cadets, Madison, Bluecoats, Phantom, etc, they are all very distinguishable from one another. In fact, if I saw them performing without the rest of the corps, I'll bet I could tell who they are.
Maybe you can, but when they toss, they all toss with simular technique. That wasn't so when I marched. They all jazz run simularly(except the cavies), handle equipment simularly. They all incorporate various forms of modern dance with simular technique. If you put all of them in the same uniform, they would probably blend together well. That was not the case when I marched. Everyone pretty much had their own style of marching, tossing, and equipment handling. Not saying our way was better, just different.
-
.
Maybe colorguard as it is today has outgrown the actual name colorguard. Maybe auxillary does make more sense; I've seen it used more and more frequently in band circuits. I've called it that before, and I don't really have a problem thinking of it as such. But my question is: isn't colorguard's dance-like evolution similar to perhaps the drill becoming a-symmetrical with drum corps? Most things in the pagentry arts change, and wasn't that just another step along the way?
I would have to say no. I marched during the time shows went from boxes and moving patterns to asymmetrical drills. Fundamentally marching didn't change during that evolution. However since dance has taken over, guards do not pay as much attention to the details of equipment handling. Gone are the days where hand positions were extremely important. Gone are the days where precision is so tight that the rifles actually spin in unision during tosses. Gone are the days were guards actually marched like the corps. Gone are the days where you could actually see different styles amoung guards. Dance has fundamentally change guard where asymmetrical drill designs did not.
-
I disagree with the ending of this statement, because I feel as though a very successful colorguard can pull this off. I mean, the guard may dance through the ballad but then lock in a solid six on rifle in the closer and be as aggressive as delicate to articulate the music.
This may be true, but only a few guards I have seen could really pull this off. With the costumes that guards wear today looking serious is a joke. What is the purpose of throwing a six when only one or two people can really catch it cleanly? I would rather see a clean four from everyone in the line, than a six where people are stepping out of form, or bobble the catch.
I think DCI has outgrown the name colorguard. Back in the day when the equipment book actually ruled rather than dance it made sense to call it colorguard. In this day where tires, 12ft metal poles, car doors, railway ties, giant chess pieces and everything but the kitchen sink is used, and the emphasis is on dance, I think it is more of an pagentry corps than a colorguard. It would be MUCH easier for me to get used to if it was renamed.
One of the things I really miss on the field are those huge impact moments like the Cavaliers huge flag toss over the corps in their 1991 show. When I saw that for the first time, I wanted to throw babies
I thought we did juicy exchanges and tosses, but this blew my mind. I haven't seen anything like this in years. -
I guess it's because I never stopped doing guard. I either, march, judge or teach and have been every year since 1975. NO, I wouldn't say I'm an accomplished dancer but I do try in order to "keep up with the Jones." Not only that, but being an indoor guard judge as well as a visual judge, I have to open my mind to many possibilities.
I know guys that marched with you in Cavies and they are still out on the floor.....doing what all the other guards are doing too. I bet you could do it too if you tried. B)
Actually Malibu, I did try. I was good at the movement half because in the Cavaliers that was what we were all about, movement with good equipment work. But actual dance modern or ballet was not meant for weight lifters who's body structure and proportions does not lend itself to great lines. Also, because of my weight, putting all of my weight on one leg and stay in balance is pretty hard, and something I have to continually work on. Dancing is not fun, movement is king to me, good equipment work rules them all.
-
I strongly disagree. If you listen to certain passeges in music you will hear what should be done visually with guard.....but then again you have to know and understand guard to imagine it. :sshh:
You absolutely amaze me. Here you were in drum corps before I was, and you have made the transition from military to dance and movement without flinching. I am wondering why I am not faring so well with this. I dunno, maybe because I can't dance worth a dang B)
-
This is one of my biggest pet peeves with DCI right now. The influence of WGI on DCI is really a problem in my eyes. Jazz running works well on a stage or basketball floor which is relatively small compared to a football field. You have far less ground to cover, and it doesn't look out of place because everyone is doing it. On the football field you have marching, and you have jazz running. You have uniforms, and you have costumes. You have ballet and modern dance with rifles and sabres which looks weird. There are so many dichotomies on the field that it looks like two different groups doing two different shows. Typical questions I get from my non drum corps friends who have come to watch me march.
1. Why does the corps march and look so cool, and the guard marches like a dance company?
2. Why doesn't your uniform match the corps?
All I can answer is that is the way the folks in charge want it.
-
In 1980 - the year I aged out, I at least wanted 1 year off.
Here goes: from what I see (not in person) DCA looks so much like what DCI looks like as far as guard-it's not a bad thing, just an observation.
A VERY accurate observation I might add. Almost TOO much like DCI for my taste. You would think a bunch of old pharts like us would have a show more tailored to our antiquated bodies, but not so. The Reneguard didn't dance a whole lot, but they had plenty of movement that would twist you body into a nice neat pretzel.
Also, I don't know if I would even make it with all of the dance/movement involved or even enjoy that type of thing, again, that's me, and #2 there is still no corps close enough in proximity. If there was, I'm sure if I liked the product, I could and would make it if it was truly in me to do so.Nancy, you would make it just fine. Now the enjoyment part is another story. At first, I didn't enjoy it at all. I had to learn, and unlearn so much stuff, I just didn't like it. Been when it got near time to learn the field show, I was pretty excited. I still don't like jazz running as opposed to marching, still don't like the toss technique of hold your left arm in the air, and still do not like the fact we wear costumes, but everything else like loving the people you march with, and getting great excercise is still the same as it was when we marched.
Am I incorrect that DCA's guards wear different costumes each year? Also, that the corps proper does drill almost like DCI corps, fast and furious or not? And do senior corps have a pit? I know many say DCA is not like DCI but from the pictures I see, it's pretty close in what and how things are done, and in talent. Although rehearsals may not be as extensive, sometimes seasoned members may not need as much rehearsal/practice, and is it still the tick system?No tick system, build up just like DCI. Yes we wear costumes(yeck!). Yes drills are much like DCI, pretty fast, and can get quite furious at times, we do have pits(renegades has a particularly cool pit). Practices can get pretty intense, but its only the weekends, and there are quite a few simularities with DCI. The difference is that DCA is all about entertainment, and DCI is about total competition. I like DCA much better than DCI. I however do not like that the guards seem to have the same disconnect with the corps that DCI has. We jazz run, the corps marches. We have costumes, the corps has uniforms. We do alot of movement that seems to cover up the equipment work. These are things I do not like. The things I like are too numerous to mention, so its a balance in the end.
More questions than answers here....sorry!You have questions, I have answers(I think :P )
A Christmas wish list to Tom Blair
in Historical Junior Corps Discussions
Posted
Please use DTS 5.1 as an optional audio codec next to Dolby Digital 5.1. Dts is much better suited for music than Dolby digital(especially for brass), and if you use its highest data rate(DVD space hog though) you will not be able to tell it from your master tapes. I speak from long time experience. This may convince me to purchase DVD's produced after 2000. Qestion, why release the legacy DVD's with highly compressed DD instead of uncompressed PCM?