Leland

Your DM is actually cute up close, too, not just when viewed from the third tier.

Yup. Talent comes and goes, but ultimately, the hornline will only play what the staff wants them to play.

On the scale of a few dozen brass players spread around the field, it hardly matters. I've heard that happen exactly once, and that was in SCV 99's ballad push from the baritones -- and it was either prelims or finals, but not both nights. I'm not the one doing the misinterpreting. I'm restating what people have said.

Well, yeah, but then again, a lot of orchestra brass sections get further into the realm of "edgy" and "raw" than a lot of instructional staffs (in band and corps) allow their lines to play. Orchestras don't always play like small chamber ensembles accompanying a formal dinner, after all. I've got some orchestral recordings that I view as prime examples of massively loud with control and equal contribution from the players.

Yup, that's how I mean it (I don't think what I typed is clear on what I meant, though). When I'm in front of a line, I try to make the ones who stick out back off so that they fit into the sound of the group -- but I also demand more sound from the softer players. For a little while, they're all uncomfortable. The loud players don't like being restricted (it's like telling a racehorse to walk), and the soft ones aren't used to moving so much air. But, eventually, they get the hang of it. It's really cool when they get that wall o' sound.

I'll ramble for a bit.. I'll go for that. What a lot of people get mixed up is when they think that "control" must always equate with "mellow". People used to ask Arnold Jacobs where & why Chicago's brass section got that sound, and he said it was because the conductor asked for it -- which was also influenced by the brass just not being heard very well at the podium itself because of the room's acoustics. Philip Farkas, one of Jacobs's fellow brass players, is credited with saying, "Each dynamic level of your instrument is associated with a particular tone color." Think carefully about that. Does it make sense to have fortissimo sound like mezzo-forte? Composers don't write "FFF" only for more decibels, they want a different, bigger, more aggressive sound. Play some Metallica on your home stereo, but instead of playing it loud, turn the volume down. It seems loud and aggressive, doesn't it? Next, play some acoustic solo guitar and turn up the volume more than before -- it will be louder, but it will still feel less aggressive than Metallica played softly. One of the corps I heard this year (not in the top 5 that everyone talks about) stayed with the rich and mellow sound at all times. It created a couple problems, though, neither of which were small or inconsequential. One - their trumpets, like many trumpet lines I've heard, couldn't get very loud before reaching that edgy/sizzling tone color, so while they were restricted to a mere mf, the rest of the hornline had room for more volume, and they sounded bottom-heavy much of the time. Two - they weren't changing moods very well because they never played with an aggressive sound. Mellow is mellow, and that's it -- it never gets "aggro". Sometimes you want aggression; sometimes you want huge, operatic drama. The whole thing about playing in tune being louder, IMO, is a crock. It's a trick to encourage the players -- who always want to play louder ;) -- to pursue good intonation. Louder is louder, and there's no way around it. Star '92 and BD '88, two exceptionally well-tuned and balanced lines I've heard, were also two of the quietest hornlines among their peers... and, honestly, they just didn't get the same kind of crowd reaction as other, louder corps. I've known two different approaches to getting a balanced, loud sound. One is to let the players crank it up early on, then rein them in later to bring the really loud ones in line with the rest. The other is to make them play with good control and balance at the beginning, even if it's a bit quieter, then have them push the envelope more and more as the season progresses. The result is pretty much the same. If I were to categorize three different approaches by the crowd responses I've heard in the stands, they would be like this: Mellow and balanced - "Yes, that's very nice and well-presented." Loud as balls but a little loose - "Holy cow! They're LOUD! Awesome!" Loud as balls, yet seamless and balanced - "Amazing! THAT is a great hornline." Ultimately, and because it always seems to get the crowd going more, I want to hear LOUD. But, I want to hear the whole line do it. I'd rather get it done by strengthening the weaker players than by holding the strong ones back.

You're looking at it from the point of someone who hasn't been on tour. I don't know where you're hearing this BS from. I'd post my own reply addressing your mythical accusations, but Taylor (post #6) already did, among others. I have heard of one instance of mixed-gender showering, however. This was a bass line who, as long as their corps can remember, did EVERYTHING as a line, and in the same order as they played on the field. They walked to rehearsal as a section, walked back to the school as a section, went through the chow line 1-2-3-4-5, sat down to eat 1-2-3-4-5, sat together on the bus, and showered 1-2-3-4-5. For years, they existed as a single entity. One year, they had their first female member in the bass line. They talked with the staff, got their approval to continue living as a unit, and she was allowed to shower in her place as part of the line. No hanky-panky took place.

Yup. (Edited for content... YouTube Videos are not authorised) Just like we tell ourselves, "What happens in Vegas stays on Youtube."

I may have read too quickly, so I didn't notice that you've been a fan for longer than I've been marching. Still, there's a side to drum corps that the fans just don't quite get to see, not even from the "On The Road Again" interludes that were on the old PBS broadcasts. All those hours, from dawn 'til dawn, teaching each other that this is the way we do things, that corps has always been good friends with us, that other corps stinks and shouldn't be beating us, rookeez sit in front, never put water on the shelf, let the contras do their thing 'cuz it's their thing, how to fold your corps jacket before setting it down ANYWHERE... It's so hard to explain that you just have to march it to understand it -- and you still won't be able to explain it. It's like throwing gypsies, hippies, symphony musicians, punk rockers, and a Marine platoon into a blender. Each corps has its own balance of that recipe. When the balance gets really out of whack, though -- that's when everyone else gets concerned.

Hmmm, humm hum hum hum hum hummmm hummmm... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MFGeEil090

There is, but it's not always obvious to people who are new to the activity -- and unless it's taught to the marching members (by people like us, really -- the corps staff grew from, and love, drum corps like we do), they won't learn it, either. It's still collectively "our" activity, from the 2008 rookies to the old alumni. It's "our" job to teach about, and preserve, what traditions we have while allowing the activity to grow and move forward.

Best line yet.

True. Although all that would have been needed would be for that Cadet to have a sudden nervous twitch.

And that was just '02, too. They put the massed performance on the CDs in '95, and it was actually worth preserving, with no jack##### from the sops. It really was an amazing sound (certainly the LOUDEST noise I've ever seen), and they haven't reached that quality ever since.

Finally, another reason to be annoyed by a season's worth of drum major-only retreats. It was nice to see the kids come out one more time (even at small local shows) and be recognized, but there's almost no reason anymore to stay in the stands after the last corps does their show.

I'll blame the organization. They could have said, "You'll do the killing thing, and collapse in place, but whatever you do, do NOT fall outside of our yard lines. Is that understood?" Maybe they did, and that sop... trumpet decided to forget it. If so, then I can't blame the organization. The one thing I learned while on the instructional side of the horn is that the kids will do anything you tell them to do, and they'll (probably) not do anything that you tell them to not do. They listen to the staff.

Then again, his corps doesn't (and, to my knowledge, never has) let themselves engage in that kind of behavior. They walk the walk, so he can talk the talk and have quite a lot of credibility.

I wonder if we (Railmen) were there, too; if we weren't, we still heard about it. I do remember finally catching up to MBI in '91 in, I think, Mankato. It was a blast, actually being competitive with a corps that we respected & knew to be good. My favorite DCA moment was 1997 Finals with Empire. That last performance was one of only two peak ensemble performances, both in emotion and execution, that I've experienced anywhere. Even though we won in '98 more decisively and with a higher score, we somehow felt that it could've been just a bit better. But, after that '97 show, we were spent -- the normally chatty Empire Statesmen was still in a stone-cold focus. I'll never be able to describe it.

Hopkins has made a number of proposals that really torqued me off (and, in some recent cases, gave me a reason to walk away from a show), but I sincerely hope that everyone pays attention to him this time. I can only imagine what was going through his head when he was addressing that Cavies kid; I probably would've lost my mind.

The last time I stood next to VK at retreat (sheesh.. 1990??), they were talking and joking around, but didn't seem to be moving around much at all (it was a local show, too). The contra on the near end asked me if we wanted some candy, but I pretty much ignored him -- we were doing the military bearing thing. He goes, "Okay, that's cool, man..", then turned to another VK contra and says, "They're pretty hardcore, man" Honestly, it was hard for me to keep from snickering.. lol

Same here. I was out of the stadium by that point, so I didn't hear it live, but even the Youtube videos I've seen showed some pretty rotten playing. Naturally, I can't pick out which hornlines were the worst offenders, but that doesn't even matter -- it's the fact that they showed their #####.

This has probably been mentioned too, but -- How many full retreats do corps even do anymore?

Ah, good point.

1) Nope. I'd say to get rid of it since the members that make up the face of DCI can't handle it. It worked in DCM in '94, and sounded great in '95-96, but then people stopped caring enough to get it right. The corps killed it, so let it be dead. 2) Nope. Slogging around in a drunken stupor is the depths of immaturity, let alone pushing members of other corps. While waiting in the tunnel for retreat back in '91, some of Northern Aurora's members were making cracks at the Ventures and their perceived sexual preferences; one of my guys only had to give them a dirty look, and they shut their mouths. While marching into that same retreat, one of SCV Cadets' bass drummers started accidentally encroaching into our file, then caught himself, said, "Sorry..", and got himself straightened out. 3) Nope. If this were another era, that Cavies kid would've lost some teeth. You just don't cross that line. A friend of mine yelled at East Coast Jazz at II/III finals in '99 when they were toeing the line to their right, "East Coast Jazz, GET OFF THE LINE!!" Even though we were far up in the stands, the kids listened and scooted a few inches off. Apologies to the Cavalier member's mom who posted way back in this thread, but this "kids blowing off steam" nonsense IS nonsense. Marching members of past years were never any older than the kids now. The maturity level, however, is really lacking. I'm happy that at least a few corps have retained some sense of decorum. I'm sad that it's only down to a few.

Or just play it, and when the closing major chord becomes an inverted 11th (or something similarly and awesomely COOL), you know that your part is written wrong.