GuyW
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Posts posted by GuyW
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Kingsmen Battery Auditions March 15, 2008
http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...howtopic=110194
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What do you stand to gain by complaining so much?
The heart and soul of drum and BUGLE Corps and Colorguard??
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Hmmm...having a new set of matched brass all in good shape is one step to having a good performance level as opposed to broken down horns held together with tape in some instances. On top of that add in the skill levels of the performers...which is the primary factor anyway.
So no, there is no "fiasco"....IMO anyway.
More MikeD spin that ignore facts.
The issue was never whether new or better horns was a good idea, the issue was/is, G horns are NOT optional in DCI, and anyone who says they are (in a DCI competitive context) is deliberately mistating the facts. If the person mistating those facts is of sound mind, then some people would call that a "lie".
"More than in a few critiques post contest, I was told that until Pioneer made the move to Bb/F, we would "come in last place in brass. The judging community does not want to hear that sound anymore".
Just sayin'
Donny"
"Perhaps if a top six corps stayed on G's there may have been a ray of hope...I guess when youre in last place, they can say that stuff. I didnt take it as being said maliciously but it did make me think..."
http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...p;#entry2038499
"Oh Boy...
So I think it may be time to clarify some things. These are truths...
#1 The words were said by more than one brass judge, to me, personally that that "SOUND" is not what they are looking for in DCI anymore. I am telling the truth. Of course I need to keep these judges names anonymous....
So there it is...
Donny"
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It's not like that at all. If a director ever actually had that discussion with the members, they need to be fired on the spot.
So, your corps management model is to mislead or lie to the kids.
Nice.
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and I refuse to believe that.
Then you "refuse to believe" Donny Allen, as one example.
But no "belief" is actually in play here in this topic.
Rational people evaluate facts in these sort of circumstances.
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"More than in a few critiques post contest, I was told that until Pioneer made the move to Bb/F, we would "come in last place in brass. The judging community does not want to hear that sound anymore".
Just sayin'
Donny"
"Perhaps if a top six corps stayed on G's there may have been a ray of hope...I guess when youre in last place, they can say that stuff. I didnt take it as being said maliciously but it did make me think..."
http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...p;#entry2038499
"Oh Boy...
So I think it may be time to clarify some things. These are truths...
#1 The words were said by more than one brass judge, to me, personally that that "SOUND" is not what they are looking for in DCI anymore. I am telling the truth. Of course I need to keep these judges names anonymous....
So there it is...
Donny"
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....I never knew that DCI forced corps to purchase ...Bb horns. Corps themselves made the decision.
When asked about the Bb/G issue, I believe Donny Allen remarked two things. First, their horns were mismatched and old and broken. This led more to poor performance on these instruments. Second, the corps seriously weighed the merits of Bb and G horns. The corps determined Bbs would be a better choice as they have a larger resale market should Pioneer eventually want to purchase or be sponsored with a newer set of horns sometime in the future. See, the corps made the decision...NOT DCI.
False - stop your pro-DCI spin.
I read Donny's comments here. He did NOT say that judges said that his corps would score poorly because of mismatched, old, and/or broken horns. They said his corps would not be able to score higher as long as they had G horns.
Clearly, corps are forced into many decisions by DCI.
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...if Corps X advertised the dickens out of their intentions to NEVER inlclude a WW line that they would ....have the cream of the crop auditioning for their membership....
Until the word gets out that the DCI judges will NOT let a "corps" win unless it has WW....ya know, like the Bb fiasco...
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I know I've said this before, but I REALLY wish you guys were up here in Canada....
Well, brother - there's at least 3 valid responses to your post:
1. On behalf of all the Kingsmen - Thanks for your recognition.
2. The airplanes fly west, too! (KAC had LOTS of out-of-towners...)
3. Really - I've got to believe that Canada has a sufficient population of real corps people who still have the fire in the belly that's necessary to put out a quality old school corps. So - who's gonna start it?
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...People who really CARE about drum corps should search out those old bugles, wipe the dust off of them, oil them up and play them again. There are THOUSANDS of old 2 valved and piston rotor bugles that have been abandoned out there....Get your bugles out, get some groups together and organize something. If you have the time, why not organize a hornline to play parades or gigs? in other words...DO SOMETHING that will restore the activity...
May I introduce you to the Kingsmen All-Age Drum and BUGLE Corps and Colorguard and the Kingsmen Alumni Corps??
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A true lip trill is actually done with the tongue. I suppose a more accurate term would be "tongue trill"...
Gee, for relative eons, practitioners have been so clueless that they called a tongue trill a lip trill....?
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Mea culpa. Dunno where I picked up "alto baritone" when you only wrote alto...
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1967 Anaheim Kingsmen staff...Richard "Dick" Oliverio....
....still a Marine, as evidenced by his haircut...
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I recently aquired an alto valve/rotor bugle.....The inside of the bell is shiny silver, but the outside of the horn is brushed.....FE Olds, Duratone....
This must be a "bass" baritone - I play this model in KAC...same horn as the Ultratone, except for finish.
I don't remember Olds ever making an "alto" or (plain) baritone horn....by the early '70s, most corps had switched their lines to all bass baritones, because (plain) small baritones had incredible back-pressure and little projection. Really, one bass bari player could overpower 2 or 3 (plain) baris, and yet have better tone...
I can envision a corps buying this satin finish to minimize the appearance of future dents and dings...
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OK, wait a second... why don't we require that we not discriminate against women first. Wouldn't that be the first, simple step? Last I checked, women were actively discouraged from trying out at Madison and Cavies.
If you want to talk about protected classes in an audition setting, let's first work on removing the self-imposed barriers before talking about anything league-wide.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
WTF? Some of this land is still "America".
Let any corps choose to be all-male, all-female, all black, Indian, mixed, whatever. It's called "freedom of association".
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It would not surprise me if there is a legitimate reason behind Mr. Hopkin's concerns. I have been pouring over grant and foundation applications recently, and in several cases, demographic information of the membership is requested. If the demographics of the membership are skewed, it might impair your ability to be succussful in obtaining funding from certain sources. It is possible that something along these lines is behind the comment.
I do agree with what others have posted though - lower cost of membership is the key to obtaining a more diverse membership base. However, that in and of itself will not change the fundamental demographics of music students in the scholastic environments that feed today's programs.
Give the man a cigar - this is driven by money, and Hoppy wants grants from foundations and/or government...
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No.
I'll grant you that drum corps instrumentation is a subset of marching band instrumentation at this point. But that does not make drum corps a subset of marching band.
Police use a subset of the military's equipment, but that does not make the police a subset of the army.
Surfers use surfboards.
Skiers use skis.
fencers use swords.
buglers use bugles.
bugle corps are made up of buglers
trumpets and tubas ain't bugles
If ya carry band stuff in contrast to the definitive bugle stuff, you're a band.
DCI groups are bands.
Bugle corps ain't
(colloquialisms used purposefully)
Forest Gump could figure this out....
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Not to detract from the sentiment of your post, but this needs to be said. If somebody actually put eggs or cream in an egg cream, they'd be crucified by the Yiddish cavalry. The egg cream has always been seltzer, chocolate syrup, and milk. That's a real egg cream.
Back to the name debate. I think DCI should be called dragonflies, as I said earlier.
I'll readily admit that I don't know anything about egg creams...
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IMHO, this is an unfair topic, because anyone taking an opposing viewpoint may be criticising a person who cannot defend themselves.
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QUOTE (whitedawn @ Feb 11 2008, 01:46 PM)
there's no cocaine in coca-cola anymore.
there's not much "foot" in football.
egg creams contain neither egg nor cream.
why mess with a good thing?
All true....In context, not true at all.
If there was another cola maker who wanted to market cocaine coke, they would certainly point out Coca Cola's hypocrisy...
There is foot in football, as admitted.
Somebody certainly sells real egg creams, and markets exactly that way.
What is bizaare, is seeing all the DCI status-quo defenders in this thread, argue "what does it really matter what equipment is used? because they cannot defend the continued used of the term drum corps..
If the equipment etc isn't really important - return the activity to actual bugles and marching drums and color guard.
I'm holding my breath, hypocrites...
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Is drum corps a subset of marching band?
Marching bands are not drum corps. But are drum corps A FORM of marching bands?
NO.
They are at worst equivalent in a heirarchy.
They are each a subset of musical groups, and of marching musical groups.
musical groups
marching musical groups
....DC....marching band....
DC might be marching bands bas__rd brother, but DC isn't band.
Well -- old school DC with actual bugles, marching percusson, and color guard, weren't marching bands, anyway....
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...In the world of drum corps, adding more tools will not inherently make anyone more creative, I see it as a red herring argument. Usually, they try to qualify it with more tools will allow more creativity, not true either....
Yes - in fact, the best argument is that adding new tools can be just a crutch, allowing a designer to appear creative, when actually their creative well has run dry....
....no wonder some want more tools - it masks their mediocrity...
...it also allows tends to allow superficial gimmickry as a substitute for excellence....
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...I wouldn't have to arrange "Louie, Louie" and "Wipe Out" for bugle!....
!!! I always thought it'd be kool for the Kingsmen to play....what else - Louie Louie....
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Sounds like a deal to me!
Note that my shortcomings are apparently too great to score me the same deal...
Oh well, I've got 285 folks that'll at least put up with me...
...well, most of 'em anyway....
OK - some of them just barely tolerate me.....
...Shoot - I'd be willing to bet I have one or two friends somewhere...
....I think my Mom loves me...
Is there an untouchable rule change?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by GuyW
Possibly.
That's consistent with how I understand today's awarding of scores by judges operates (in the following I don't differentiate between caption scoring and overall corps scoring, but assume that all are treated the same).
The scores are not absolute, but relative.....they are essentially rankings "justified" by attendant scoring....so a corps is awarded a score that places it into the (perceived) correct ranking.
If scores above the Pioneer / Trooper / Mandarin placings are a ceiling on this groups' scores, its possible that if Pioneer's line was going to be scored higher, that Troopers and/or Mandarins must score lower....
I'm open to hearing facts on this.