Tom Brace

Not really Bobby. I haven't. But I like that nifty little emoticon you used there with that fancy computer there. I wish I knew how to do that nifty little cartoon little emoticon there. Those sure are cute there. You are so incredibly talented to have used that right there like that. You keep getting better, ok?

It was an observation. All appearances are, they are not, as an organization, getting better everyday. I asked a question. It may go unanswered. Many questions go unanswered. But that's not the most important part. The most important thing about all this is it got you to post. That's what makes a discussion board work now doesn't it. I have very little history with Pioneer. All has been good, but that was long ago, when they were a top Div. II corps. They are a World Class corps today...smaller in size than when they were a top Div. II corps. Also, I didn't see where I demanded an answer. I said I would look forward to an answer. Not a demand, otherwise I would have used those words. I did now. You misinterpret here. I have no time in life for sour grapes. I have plenty of time for stimulating conversation though. What would you do to make Pioneer better tomorrow if you could? I do know what I would do and it would involve a retirement announcement. Good day.

Your comments bring up two points. 1. Have a loose mission statement. That's key. To provide young people an education in the music and pagentry of drum and bugle corps can be accomplished by many different sized not-fors. I can rent a van and take 12 kids to a local show. Mission accomplished. I can also tour the country with 200 people. Mission again, accomplished. 2. Drum corps will die if the tax code changes to eliminate tax deductions on charitible contributions. Die. End. Over.

It's not just drum corps, Stu. GM was on a cash only basis in 2008 when they asked for the bailout. Their investments were all but destroyed when the banking crisis hit and the stock market plummetted. But, GM can get a line of credit...if from no one else...the federal government. They are "too big to fail." Sadly, drum corps will never be in this category. I love how there is continue angst toward those organizations who continually find themselves at the top of the drum corps heap. There are few surprises. The best run organizations get the best talent and the best rewards. But even the best corps extend lines of credit...like businesses do...on expected future income.

You bring up a couple of examples of corps on the rebound. Does that automatically indicate outstanding management? What's your take?

As far as WC corps fees, I believe Santa Clara and Blue Devils are under $2500. The rest seem to be about $3000 or more. Yes, travel and housing can be a big issue. Some corps are charging members for housing at camps, etc. So, the complete cost is nebulous depending on the corps you choose. It's funny as I have been researching Open Class corps and there are some who charge almost as much as it would cost to march Blue Devils or SVC. But then again, you have the travel and housing considerations to manage as well. I would think if a person budgeted (minus airport travel) $4000 for the entire season...including instrument, uniform fees, etc., some spending money, etc. they should be fine. Airport travel is too unpredictable. I have seen flights from PHX to ORD or MKE going from $159 RT to $378 RT depending on days traveled etc. Flying on a Thursday and home on a Monday is generally cheaper than the Friday - Sunday, but it depends. Also, if the corps is cold winter climate...prepare for delays and cancellations. I NEVER book the last flight of the day in the winter in the midwest. and just a note...if you get stuck somewhere overnight due to weather...you are on your own for accomodations and hotels get booked fast and don't discount when the weather is bad. So, what does that $4000 to $6000 investment get you? I think that's a question best answered by people who have spent a summer doing drum corps. I'm sure they can explain why they do it better than anyone else can.

Great question. I think budgeting is an interesting concept to many people. I have heard staff arguing with management/admin in the past because they want money that was allocated in the budget originally and it is difficult to explain that there is no money. A budget is a plan. The best organizations I've worked with use open books management and budgeting practices. In otherwords, every stakeholder...from Board member to guard tech, gets a weekly budget synopsis...an overview page....basically income projection vs. actual income and expense projection vs. actual expense and their own budget area in detail. In this way, each stakeholder understands where they fit into the bottom line. It makes it easier to explain why we can't get that 3rd set of show flags for instance. And then the healthy form of blame game can begin. I actually think it's very healthy when organizations can see their shortcomings and areas needing financial improvement. I see many drum corps boards who are ill equipped for their basic duties. They should be the chief fundraising unit for their organization. Many not-for-profit boards have a ticket price for a chair at the table. One such board I am familiar has a chair price of $25K annually. In otherwords, you give or personnally raise $25K a year, or you aren't a Board member. Because, it's easier to ask others to give...if you give significantly to the organization yourself. Just some random Thursday thoughts.

I also think that some corps have embraced the idea of reinvention to get better.... examples from the top of my head include Troopers and Blue Stars. They could have been stuck in their mid-late 90s mode....but they chose NOT TO. They both dug in and reinvented themselves and have gotten back to a very high competitive status as a result. So, it's never over for a corps. It doesn't have to be. Corps can reinvent themselves and choose to be better than they were. I think most of all it involves challenging the entire organization just like each corps challenges a rookie during the winter through all days. When an organization takes on the challenge for improvement...for getting lean...for trying things new, different, innovative, the path for success can open wider. That's the thinking taught to each new potential corps member...to get better, to learn new things, to accept challenges, to work harder than you think you can, to strive for perfection, to learn from and avoid remaking the same mistakes. If more organizations looked at themselves in this light, I think we'd have more solid drum corps organizations out there. The model is there.

At the risk of repeating myself, it really comes down to the motto Pioneer has been known for. We see it every year on the field, of course. You see Pioneer in June and then in July and August and you see it on the field. They do "get better everyday." But, as an organization as a whole, I am still left with questions regarding the accuracy of that motto. Here's my question...in what ways does/has the Pioneer organization gotten better everyday? And this is not just Pioneer. Few organizations have grasped the idea of...what you ask these amazing young people to do year in and year out....to go and do what THEY THINK is impossible...should be the mission for the entire organization...the ADULTS TOO. If drum corps...this almost truly American wierd little sport/art/music/not marching band but is marching band...if this is going to succeed and grow, the adults leading these corps...the management/admin/Board of Directors/instructional staff MUST take on the same mantra. I believe Pioneer's motto is one which could be adopted by every drum corps. Get better everyday. Get more creative. Think outside the box. Try new things. Find new sources of revenue. Artistic folks...if you want a more expensive program...help the admin find the ways to fund it. Innovation is accomplished all the time on shoe string budgets. Computers started out of people's garages. But that vision grew...it caught on...people wanted it and they paid for it and money was raised and it became successful. Innovation can't just be what occurs on the football field. It has to be organization wide. So, again...what is Pioneer doing as an organization to challenge ITSELF to get better everyday? Thanks for your consideration of this question. I look forward to an answer.

the lead dancer is an ASU grad, dance major and was originally hired to choregraph dance scenes...then...they hired her for a part. And that's how "Brittany" got to be.

Way to go, Pat. You helped in a big way toward making this a win-win...but, come to think about it...that's how you roll.

It's ok, Bobby. I deserve it. It was well played and someone is on the green in two. Putting for birdie. Well played.

Nice one! I bought enough drum lessons for a kid, but that's about as close as I ever came to one. I think I could screw up a cymbal crash. Promise. Besides, I doubt Crown could afford me.

Well, I believe some corps are never going to arrive at the "better" stage let alone getting good. Here's a few clues as to what keeps a corps from being...better. 1. Fire the entire staff at the end of the year...and then don't pay them for their efforts. Yeah, that never ends well. 2. Deciding on a Program Coordinator or Corps Director someone who has a criminal indictment against them...yeah, let them clear their name first...at least wait until they have been cleared of all criminal wrong doing. I'm sure someone has a longer list, but those two to start with should be no brainers.

It was at the Dixon Petunia Festival where Terry Chestnut and myself have the pleasure of inviting Mary and the Bandettes over to our cook truck for chicken fajitas off our flat top griddle. So many memories. Thanks, Mary for all your efforts every year and to all those Bandettes. I also remember a year or two when Don Kaihutsu worked with their brass. They had a great sound for a pretty small horn line.

Ok, everyone. I think I know how to get a topic removed from the Open Class discussion forum. Let's try this. Which Open Class corps have their act together from a management aspect. I marvel at how BDB can go from California to Indianapolis each year. Also, the Oregon Crusaders seem to have put things back together after their hiatus. How about those Spartans? Everything seems to be fixed there. That's a very good thing. Who else. And...let's stay positive, ok folks?

OK...Let me just say...as a major doubter..when you guys got started...I was wrong. Way to go and way to stick with this idea. You should be very proud of what you have accomplished in just a few short years. I mean it. Congratulations. I was a doubter and major critic, but you, sir, have proved me wrong. I apologize. Now, keep doing what you are doing because it's growing!

there....fixed.

See, naming the corps...the acting director...the Board...only got the last two threads closed. Yep, closed by the moderators on DCP, yet members of last year's staff are still owed money while this corps goes out and recruits new staff...new members...and goes on like that was yesterday...let's not look at yesterday...let's look at tomorrow. It's kind of like when people convenient deny events ever happened, you know, like it never existed. Stu...IM me. I'll tell you...or anyone else wanting to know as much of the details as I know. And, just so folks know...I love drum corps, but I hate it when drum corps do bad things. It's a stain on the entire thing...it makes us like the fly by night organizations which used to permeate this activity.

I think your prediction is based on corps being able to find..."trained pianists" who want to pay $3000 for a summer playing in front of a marching band. Especially with all those silly uniform things...and they would have to push around the synthsizer themselves? Really? And I have to practice all day outside? In the hot sun?

This is smoke and mirrors actually. It doen't matter what the last staff did or did not do. If they were dismissed, they are gone now. The current administration OWNS the debts when they take over. Did the Board of Directors change? If not, they are the people who are financially liable. And if they are all new....THEY ASSUME ALL ASSETS AND DEBTS. That's part of the job of running a corps. The Staff...if they did not perform to the satisfaction of the Board, they should have been terminated early. Not after the season. Termination after the season suggests there was nothing in their performance of their duties which provided cause. Their "contract was not extended for the 2012 season." Probably what the email read. That alone suggests an orderly end of a contract at the end of the season. Nothing about a lack of performance...just one of those..."your services are no longer required" kind of things. BUT...the fact remains...staff should be paid for the time they worked for the corps UNDER CONTRACT. This has nothing to do with last year's administration or this year's administration. THE ENTITY...the corps exists. So, it owes this debt. And I think, before they even audition one member for 2012, they should pay last year's staff. And before anyone would take a new position with the corps, they would know last year's staff was paid. Again, this isn't about pointing at last year's admin. The Board hired them, the Board dismissed them...the Board still owes them for their efforts.

Hey Bobby. It's ok. There were once 4 corps in Texas. In 2012, I see that number cut in half.

So what's your other account name?

By the way...this is far from hypothetical. One current Open Class corps has now gone over 7 weeks and has not paid any member of their staff from last year after sending them all "we are not renewing your contract" emails. That's over 45 days. Yet this same corps has sold old equipment and raised money from potential new members by selling them their "audition kits" for 2012. It seems a lot like cart before the horse to me. What kind of staff are they going to get if they won't honor their contracts? And why should any potential new member honor a contract with said corps? Drum corps is about honor and committment. Those are what people are supposed to learn from drum corps. And yet, "screwed" is what some may learn from at least one corps.

This may be the worst analogy I have read to date on DCP. So, the staff members should be kings about this whole thing? Yeah, the problem with that is many are young and need the summer's wages for school, etc. And age really doesn't matter. If a corps does not honor the contract, then how much faith could anyone have in the corps?