2000Cadet
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Posts posted by 2000Cadet
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1 minute ago, MarimbaManiac said:
Yes, and what is in your brain is an assumption of someone else's motives. You're ASSUMING that people simply have an axe to grind, vs some other motive they might have.
It's really straightforward logic, but I digress.
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Just now, MarimbaManiac said:
Yeah, they're assumptions, by definition.
...and yes you are saying people should be quiet. You're just casting it as "keeping the peace" or "doing the RIGHT way" (which conveniently has no definition beyond "not like this").
Lol, so my statements are assumptions, but you're telling ME what I'm saying.
I said exactly what was on my brain. If you want to take it as that, do what you want. I don't really care. But the points I made are statements by which I stand so we can both move along.
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Just now, MarimbaManiac said:
They're quite literally assumptions based on your own perceptions. You can't witness someone's intent through an internet forum beyond what they provide.
As I've said. They're not assumptions. They are things I've witnessed myself. I'm not going any further than that, but my statement stands whether you want to label it an assumption or not.
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2 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:
Yeah let's talk about this right here. This is YOUR assumption. YOU are categorizing what's happening in that way. I don't particularly feel like that's the case, and in fact most of the people who have been vocal about the issues within SCV are alumni that love the organization very much, and have tried to "approach the organization" (your words), MANY times as an alumnus or staff member, and have been shut out by an organization that refuses to take accountability.
This isn't a "Blue Devils pay off the judges" conversation where people are just spouting their opinions, these are GENERATIONAL issues within institutions that have proven to be woven into the fabric of the organizations operational structure.
Again it's your assumption that bringing these issues to DCP, or Reddit, which are both primary communication hubs for information about the organizations, doesn't do any good.
Go look at the r/drumcorps subreddit. Every other post is something like, "where should I audition?" or "how should I prepare for camp?" or "how do I prepare for tour?" People go to these internet communities to get information about the activity in general and specific corps, and I guarantee that at least a few of them learned something new about SCV that will make them think twice about auditioning or accepting a contract.
The point is accountability, and considering corps like SCV have basically stonewalled alumni trying to hold them accountable in their internal forums, they've been evasive about answering questions in board meetings and official venues, and there really isn't any other kind of official communication forum, DCP/Reddit/Twitter are the best options for asking inconvenient questions, pointing out irregularities, and warning potential members of impending issues.
Maybe if people were waving the red flag 12 months ago, there wouldn't have been so many people hung out to dry after paying camp fees only to see the corps fold a few days later.
No one is "adding to the destruction of the corps" besides the corps themselves, and their own actions. Being quiet isn't helping them recover, it's allowing them to continue the same behavior that put themselves in this position to begin with.They are not assumptions. They are things I've witnessed myself. Additionally, that one corps chose to treat their alum like they're not entitled to information does not mean that's the same for every drum corps. Just because one thing works for one doesn't mean it works for all, and I acknowledge that with my own ideas and statements as well.
AGAIN, I'm not saying people should be quiet. And I'm not going to beat a dead horse with it. I believe there are better ways to handle it, you believe posting these stories on DCP is appropriate.
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29 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:
First, I want to say I'm a prime ally in recognizing some semblance of what you might be feeling right now regarding your corps' hiatus. I was a hot mess around this time last year. There are plenty here who also might know that feeling. I'm sorry you and many others are going thru it. Just painful.
And... there will always be some who jump to protect the org (good, that's important) and some just as quick to identify gaps (I think that's also good, but clearly others disagree, fine, free country and whatnot.)
It's when one of those groups tries to silence the other that my hackles go up. And poster after poster in this thread has described why going to the orgs rarely works. Hint: it's silencing. You can choose to ignore that if you want, but I'm all about identifying patterns as a qualitative researcher, and that's a big one.
So we're getting closer and closer to shooting the messengers here, rather than taking a closer look at the orgs with documented failures in their legacies. But it will be pointed out.
It was pointed out in the SoA thread by at least a few posters (some survivors) that blaming whistleblowers for the potential destruction of an org was victim blaming. What's the difference here? Genuine question, not a gotcha.
The difference is I'm not blaming a whistleblower or a victim. Some of those who have posted things about other corps don't come across as whistleblowers or victims, but rather someone with an ax to grind (yes, I said it again because I have seen it myself). AGAIN, I am ALL for holding corps accountable for what they've done (I was one of the first who came out against you know who when we all found out what he'd done). What I'm saying is, I don't think DCP has been the most effective way to do that.
11 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:Thanks for the dialogue.
We've already been clear here that going to the orgs hasn't worked, so what other steps do you recommend?
The "axes to grind" and "dirty laundry" language is kind of a no starter for me. Heard it too much with my own alum when I have brought up legitimate, verifiable concerns. It's used to flippantly to take seriously at this point.
I don't think I get who put what your referencing here so I'll leave it.
Again, how do you know this hasn't been done?
We don't. But the point is, too many times, the issues pop up on DCP with no context, with no idea whether or not someone within the org has brought it to someone's attention, so on and so forth.
See my previous post for the steps I recommend.
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4 hours ago, HockeyDad said:
Beautifully written. It’s a weird thing - I would expect to get a sense of humility coming from SCV and Cadets leadership teams. Instead it feels like we’re getting attitude.
I am not affiliated with the Cadets as far as staff or otherwise. I only marched and now I donate. Any attitude you think you're getting from me (which is none) would be coming directly from ME and not Cadets. And I think a lot of people on this site could practice a little humility.
5 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:Yes, they improved the mechanics of their whistleblowing system; allowed a meeting between myself and board regarding safeguarding so they're mostly aware that I've gathered the testimony of 16 alum with 60 instances of abuse over the decades; and have pledged transparency FWIW. Further, they shared my open letter internally with the staff during spring training of the 22 season. Lastly, they also stated that they are receptive to receiving evidence of retaliation should I encounter any. Have documentation of all of this.
I won't share other things I'm aware of because I don't actually share everything. But yes, there have been changes.
If nothing else, they're on notice that a growing number of critical alumni are watching and scrutinizing them quietly and vocally. If there were nothing else, I'd be fine with that too. But there is.
Because, and I don't know why this is so difficult for the drum corps community to grasp, public and stakeholder scrutiny is supposed to be baked into the nonprofit mechanism. Drum corps pushback to scrutiny is the outlier here. Not the scrutiny itself. If you had evidence that your beloved corps was risking is own future, wouldn't it be your love for them that drove you to take action?
And as I said in the now shuttered thread, none of you know the other steps whistleblowers have taken just because you've read what they say on social media. In fact, it would endanger most of them to list out the steps they've taken. So to assume they haven't taken the steps you deem appropriate is oddly both hurtful and futile.
Well, I did not say I was against holding any corps accountable for the wrongs they've done. I am specifically talking about the way people feel the need to post dirty laundry on here. If I were in that position, I most certainly would take action to make sure people are held accountable. But in my view, there are more effective ways to do it.
And let's get real folks. We ALL know there are certain people on this forum with axes to grind, who foam at the mouth at the slightest bit of controversy within corps they do not particularly like (or maybe the people within those corps), so let's not get brand new.
Additionally, none of us know if people have tried to bring up issues in the past within their specific drum corps so speaking negatively about the entire staff as a whole on a drum corps forum doesn't seem to get anywhere.
When I was in the Navy, we were taught if we had a problem, to handle it at the lowest level. If that doesn't work, you take it to the next level and the next and the next until the issue is fixed (and I'm talking about certain issues, so let's not twist my words here). I was never taught to go directly to the media (or social media, although we know a lot of people have done that) to get the issues fixed. While that doesn't always work, it's a start.
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4 hours ago, MarimbaManiac said:
So, you acknowledge that there are problems that need to be addressed, and in later posts acknowledge that other avenues for fixing those issues have been attempted, yet you complain when people trying to bring those issues to light?
Let's be clear about something. When there are systemic issues in an organization, and that organization is unwilling to even ACKNOWLEDGE them yet alone address them, there are two options. Let it be, or dig further and shine a spotlight. The problem, as you put it, is that for decades people were too comfortable with, or encouraged by others, to stay quiet and let things be. There was too much willingness to overlook clearly serious issues for "the health of the activity" or "out of respect for the organization." It bred a toxic environment where issues were allowed to fester, and whistleblowers were declared to be the problem because it was "too messy."Frankly, the people who want change, but refuse to get their hands dirty, are the worst offenders of this story. They cry foul enough to make it seem like they're engaged and offended, but are actually more offended by the heavy handed processes that are required to force change in intransigent organizations. In my opinion, they are the ones who are doing the most damage to the activity, because they're too "grossed out" by the dirty work that they allow corruption and incompetence to continue, even when that results in very real negative effects on the marching members and staff.
If SCV, or Cadets, or SOA, or whomever is refusing to acknowledge their systemic issues, then THEY are the ones who have destroyed the reputation of the organization. THEY are the ones who brought this upon themselves, and THEY are the only parties responsible for their unwillingness or inability to get their houses in order. It is NOT the people who have been bringing up these issues quietly for years, only to be dismissed or ignored. It's NOT the people working to uncover and bring to light these issues, and it's NOT the people amplifying the message that a house cleaning is in order.The organizations being ripped apart, brought this on themselves, and they only have themselves to blame. Stop shooting the messenger.
First off, I'm not "complaining" and you can leave your little attitude at the door. I am simply saying if people really want to solve an issue, DCP is not the place to do it.
Second, I'm pointing out an issue that is ridiculous in my view. As I've said in my original post, I think it's right to point out when drum corps have done things that need to be addressed, but DCP does not seem to be the right place to handle issues.
Third, The POINT of my initial post was to ask why people choose to bring issues on DCP, which usually leads to nothing being done except threads being led down rabbit holes with no solutions, and ultimately that thread getting closed. If people TRULY want to get something fixed within that specific organization, then they should approach that organization instead of adding to the destruction of that organization.
But if you're all for posting that type of crap, then by all means, do you. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that's the right way to do it.
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13 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
i agree.......and don't agree.
sadly talking to those in charge often gets you sunshine and roses answers or flat out ignored. there's some transparency in some places, but drum corps has proven time and time again to be reactionary only after the worst possible case scenarios unfold. sadly too many good intentioned people refuse to open up to let people help, and try to control everything, and make it worse. and in this day and age with lawsuits flying hourly, and it seems the statutes of limitations being widened to bring old wounds forward, airing laundry sometimes is sadly the only way to get change and transparency to happen.
it's a double edged sword indeed. but until the corps themselves get ahead of #### before it breaks and be open, it's the world we live in today. if you think it's bad here, check out Reddit
Have the postings about SCV's troubles led to changes within their org? I'm asking because I don't know, not to be an a-hole.
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11 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:
Two thoughts:
1. When a corps has problems with abuse or corruption, and every possible option to address them has already been exhausted (including contacting them directly, as you suggest), going public is the last resort.
2. Social media makes it possible to air dirty laundry globally, and generate rage in a matter of moments. People these days are being conditioned to "ready, fire, aim". These factors combine to generate a rush to judgment based on emotion and the absence of critical thinking. I call it "cancel culture".
This, I already recognize, IF those options have been already exhausted. But from what I've seen on this site regarding certain issues lately, that is not always a true statement.
As to your second point, when someone or an organization commits crimes or does things to people without their consent, I am all for "cancel culture."
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We’ve had corps fold, corps take a year off, etc. What I have noticed to be constant is people coming onto this site to air those corps’ dirty laundry. Don’t get it confused. I am all for holding corps accountable for what happens with their finances, ESPECIALLY when much of their coins are from donations. But if we protest to love this activity as much as we do, WHY are we trying to destroy the reputations of corps we claim to love?
Drum corps is still a niche activity. We don't get much support outside of those who already know about us. With all the changes that have taken place just over the past 20 years, we STILL have a relative small group of people who watch and enjoy this activity. Pandemics, inflation, and other things have have caused so many issues with in society so it comes as no surprise to me that drum corps is feeling the same pain.
Maybe instead of pouring salt on the wounds, we should be talking directly to those corps and possibly provide suggestions on fixing the issues issues they're facing. Not saying it would be an easy task, but anything is better than coming onto a forum and posting terrible news just to get a rise out of people. Just a thought.
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6 minutes ago, Richard Lesher said:
Here is a simple question.
What is the CHARITY CERTIFICATE # that belongs to the entity
Cadets Arts and Entertainment (tax ID # 85-0545477), and what is the original issue date, and the current expiration date?
Here's a simpler question:
Why are you asking that type of question on a forum like this when you could simply just reach out to the source?
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30 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:
I left California, but people are moving there unlike what someone says, and I'd move back for the right job that pays a high dollar amount. I'm just extremely tired of all the nut jobs trying to pick on California due to obvious political reasons...
Costs are high everywhere; fuel is even more of an issue there, but the whole tour isn't there...
As far as the Cadets taking a year off, I have no idea how this relates to that topic.
REALLY!!! I lived in Cali for 7 years and even though it was expensive at the time, I loved it. I would move back in a heartbeat if my job sent me there. 5th largest economy in the world and people talk #### about it as if it's a developing country.
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4 hours ago, Gantang said:
You completely missed my point. Do they have a consistent revenue stream that can fund the corps? Are they confident that the budget can be met from all revenue streams? I don't care where the money goes since I can see that on their 990. I care whether all of the budget lines can be met CONSISTENTLY year after year. Do they have such streams?
Uh huh. If you truly want answers to those questions (which I HIGHLY doubt), here's someone who may be able to answer for you since this person has made themselves available for questions:
On 10/16/2023 at 1:48 PM, Chris RL FHNSAB said:I'm secretary of the board of directors at Cadets, if that helps. Trying to keep accurate information flowing, and not gossip from those who do not know what they are speaking about.
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On 10/16/2023 at 1:48 PM, Chris RL FHNSAB said:
I'm secretary of the board of directors at Cadets, if that helps. Trying to keep accurate information flowing, and not gossip from those who do not know what they are speaking about.
On 10/16/2023 at 5:58 PM, Chris RL FHNSAB said:Thanks Jeff. Your information is incorrect. Our transportation challenges were with a bad bus company, which we chose to replace and reallocate those funds for a new one at championship week. This decision had nothing to do with anyone leaving, in fact Denise spearheaded the removal of the bus company and replacement.
Rumors are just that. Rumors. If you have questions, ask us/me. We will continue to be as transparent as we can, knowing that we speak as one BOD. Thanks for the compliment.
Quoting these posts as this person clearly is one who was ACTUALLY in the room...
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2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
i'm far more willing to give Cadets the benefit of the doubt and a few bucks. while not giving all of the details, they have been far more transparent than SCV and that we know of they have no legal issues that need resolved with any government entities.
doesn't mean i won't ask questions if i am going to give money.
COMPLETELY agree with you, and you've made the point about Cadets' transparency so other people should take note.
Example:
2 hours ago, Gantang said:How is asking about the reality of them having consistent operating revenue sources sanctimonious? And what other corps are doing has nothing to do with Cadets.
Cadets have been more than transparent over the past few years about where their donations have been going. Just this year, they've disclosed a lot of that information. Perhaps if you leave your feelings at the door and go to their website, you'd have seen that. But I get it is more fashionable to kick a corps when they're already down.
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1 hour ago, dcifanforlife said:
One should hold off on donating to The Cadets until they come clean on what actually happened and that they have a plan going forward. 1) Who is going to be the face of the organization before DCI and other stakeholders. During the past five years The Cadets next person up scenario has burned though a lot of good will within the drum corps activity. All of the previous leaders lived and died for the organization. Is now the time for a change? The Cadets have a large creditability issue to overcome. 2) How many paid employees are The Cadets going to have and where will they be based? 3) How do they repair a donor base that has been asked to save the organization several times.
A 2024 return is off the table. The Cadets are refunding all audition fees and dues already paid for 2024. 2024 schedule will be out within a month and The Cadets will not be listed for any shows. With The Cadets having little income coming in how is the organization going to survive? $200,000 will not get the job done. The Cadets will need $2,000,000 to return in 2025. Is it time to send the trophies to Drum Corps Museum?
Wow. This is a prime example of why it's always best to avoid this site when things like this happen. I felt bad for SCV for all the crap they were getting last year, and here we go again with people trashing an organization because they THINK something nefarious was going on.
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14 hours ago, Gantang said:
I wish Cadets ZERO ill will, but maybe they don't have the financial backing to operate a DCI corps. What happens the next time they're short on money if the GFM bandaid has been removed from the medicine cabinet?
Corps need a consistent revenue stream that will allow them to meet their needs and it appears that there is no such stream here. Has anyone done a deep dive into the reality of them having operating revenue sources?Unfortunately, given how expensive things are, this has happened and is bound to happen to other corps, so careful with the sanctimony. I presume a lot of corps are looking at their finances right about now.
14 hours ago, ScottPREuph said:Throwing money at them isn't going to fix years of awful institutional financial management. Who even knows where your money would be going at this point?
Then what do you suggest? It's always easy to sit behind a computer and criticize something that you were more than likely not in the room to observe. Instead of pontificating about what's nothing more than conjecture, perhaps put your money where your mouth is.
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57 minutes ago, keystone3ply said:
Start a new topic - would love to hear some stories. May be open it to brass instructor stories/memories?
16 minutes ago, fighterkit said:Agreed. I would love to hear stories of Gino back at the Cadets.
I've got some good stories about my time under him as well.I think that's a GREAT idea!
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11 hours ago, fighterkit said:
It was so much fun being his dm for two summers. I learned so much under him and him and McNutt have some of my favorite memories for marching
I'm not going to hijack the thread, but I have so many interesting stories about the interactions between Gino and our hornline.
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32 minutes ago, fighterkit said:
Haha. Speaking of Gino I just saw him today.
I would LOVE to see Gino again. He's literally THE BEST teacher I've ever had in my life.
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5 hours ago, fighterkit said:
Unrelated, but is the gif in your signature the San Antonio rehearsal for 2000?
Yes. There was a guy doing a documentary on us. He'd asked Gino if one of us could hold his camcorder during our drill at the end of the show. Gino asked me to do it, so that was me holding the camera instead of my horn.
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First SCV, now Cadets. Beware, alum of other corps, because what is going on in this thread will happen to your corps once they're forced to take a year off.
Too many people here seem to lack empathy and are not really seeing the forest through the trees.
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I think I now understand how SCV alumni felt last year.
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Cadets helped to take an 17 year old teenager, who spent his childhood surrounded by drugs, gangs, and typical inner-city problems, and allowed him to see what life should be like. If it weren't for Cadets, he wouldn't have spent 21 years in the Navy created a life for himself that's worthy of celebration. That kid was me.
The Cadets mean EVERYTHING to me. If they need to take a year off to get things back in shape, then so be it. I'm sad that this is happening, but with the continuing rising costs of everything, I can neither be surprised nor naive that this won't happen to other corps, because with the current trend, it will.
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What is wrong with US?
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Your post seems to infer that what I've said refers to you, which it is not. I've seen a lot of what you've done last year so I am not trying to make any issue of the steps you've taken. What I am saying is there are people who come here to do exactly what I pointed out, like one of the threads yesterday that was taken down. There was a DCP member who explicitly stated they were available for questions, or to clear things up, or to set the record straight. The post was STILL inserted into another thread even when the original thread was closed and when the entire subject was cleared up.