higherlouderfaster

Sorry my friend, Sometimes the sarcastic sense of humor doesn't come across right in print. I love the idea. I love watching and marching in parades, and would be excited to see a parade circuit. My comment about "judging on entertainment" was a sarcastic jab at the fact that the drum corps activity has become so "level of difficulty" driven that entertainment value doesn't seen to mean squat anymore. No offense was intended toward you or your great idea.

I could judge this. I have a ton of parade experience. Back in the late 70s, the Keystoners' corps director was a genius at making money in parades. He would tell every parade that we had two corps: Keystoners Senior and Keystoners Alumni. Then he would ask them to line us up with one near the front and one near the rear of the parade. A carpool at the end of the parade back to the beginning, two shirts, two songs..........twice the paycheck!!! Pure genius!!! For the life of me, I can't figure out why some of these big corps today don't do something similar like splitting the corps in half and making up a second name. I mean really..........how many people do you need to sound good and look good in a parade? Now........if any of you directors out there use either of these patented brilliant ideas..........don't forget to send me my cut!!!

Judge based on entertainment?!?!?!?! What do you think this is?............................The 70s!?!?!?!?!?!

I would agree whole heartedly, Darren. By the way, that sure is one good lookin guy in your avatar their. The whole Bloooooo thing, if I remember correctly, started in '87. I don't know who started it (but I believe it was some alumni who were actually shouting "go Blooooo") nor do I know how it caught on so universally. It's especially interesting since we were definitely not the first corps with blue in our name. And Autumn Leaves........well, that one, my friend, was life changing. That may sound like an exaggeration, but in all honesty, if it had not been for that song and that solo, my entire drum corps career would have been different. I think I'll go pop the DVD in now. Be blessed my BlueBrother and........................GO BLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! 11 to 1 in 20 years!

We have a winner. Great one liner!!!

And also.............don't forget that big brother, the FBI, the CIA, and You Know Who is out to get you. After all, if "they" could kill Kennedy, then.........well..........you figure out the rest.

I think you're stretching things a little bit to achieve these conclusions. First of all, I agree that epidemic is an exaggeration. But in the second sentence of the quote above you make a subtle shift in words that seems to equate the word epidemic with the word problem. Drugs in DCI do not have to reach epidemic proportions before it should be considered a problem. While I don't think the current level of drug use in DCI should be defined as an epidemic, it most certainly is a problem if it exists at all. If one kid in one corps gets busted by authorities it will effect the activity. It will effect housing availability. It will effect sponsorships....all of the things I listed previously in this thread. And you and I both know, there is more than one kid in one corps doing this stuff. The poll on the former thread bore that out. Almost half of the respondents were 2000 or later marching members and almost 30 percent of respondents said they did drugs on tour. Like I said...I'm not saying it is an epidemic, but the numbers, even interpreted conservatively, show that it exists. And if it exists, then legally, that is a problem. Quite simply my reply is that no effort made toward the eradication of drug use in DCI is a waste of time and or resources when you consider, as I stated earlier, the possible consequences of not making the effort. This is an open forum (well........for the most part), and of course every option from both extremes and everything in between is going to be posted. And this issue does involve matters of who is responsible for policy, what should be the policy, who is responsible for enforcement, how to achieve enforcement, who is responsible for accountability, when should parents be notified and involved. All of that is being discussed by some, and there is some BS in the thread, but the conversation, no matter how flawed it may be, must continue. You don't need data to know that drugs exist in the activity. You don't need data to know that it is a problem with potentially dangerous consequences (no matter what level it is happening at).

That's interesting.........I wasn't bothered at all when your sister spanked me. Disclaimer: Higerlouderfaster does not actually know, nor has he ever been spanked by mistoffilies' sister. This is simply an attempt at adding a little levity to an otherwise very deep discussion. The author of this post sincerely hopes that mistoffilies is in possession of a great sense of humor and not in possession of an automatic weapon.

And to add to that, take some comfort in the fact that a lot of parents, alumni, current members, and leadership are having these conversations and trying to spur the activity to constantly improve its policies and enforcement of said policies on the issue of drugs and alcohol.

Look, the only people who left were the legalization crowd and the "its just a little pot" crowd. The thread never was, not does it need to be about legalization. The thread is about dealing with that which is currently against federal law and against corps rules and regs. Drugs, including pot, are not legal and their not going to be legal anytime soon. There are, however, a virtual myriad of other web sited, chat rooms and message boards that are completely dedicated to the issue of legalization. That would be a great place to go join in the fantasy. Legalization is not a DCI issue. DCI cannot legalize drugs. DCI is beholden to the law as it is now. In this thread, legalization is nothing but a smoke screen (pun intended) and distraction. And "it's just a little pot" or "kids will be kids...it's a fact of life" arguments have been extremely well refuted throughout this thread. In short (if it's not already too late) this isn't about justifying the "right to use." It's about dealing with the fact that it must be stopped. The legal liability to DCI and each individual corps, the reputation of the activity with sponsors, hosts, parents and fans, the health and welfare of the membership are clearly at risk as long as drugs are a part of the activity.

Well........uh........no, you don't come off as somebody who would "beat" their kid. I guess it's the word beat that throws me and in front of the corps that really confuses me. While I do have no problem with controlled spanking at younger ages, I would not do that in the teen years and definitely not in front of a crowd. There is a pretty big difference between teaching a lesson, and harmfully embarrassing or emotionally scarring a child. I want him to learn about proper consequences for bad life choices, not learn to be submissive to some kind of "ruler by fear." The idea is to make him a stronger and wiser adult who makes productive good decisions in life...not to make him a weaker and scared.

They also did Mac Park in 1985 (which ironically was a comeback year also after almost folding in 1984) but without the intro thing. Not many recordings of this around either because we didn't make finals. Had a really hot sop solo in it right off the Maynard version....I heard that kid was only 16 years old.........I wander what ever happened to him?

A lot of people remember that show for the whole Bottle Dance thing...and that is completely understandable, but if you pull out the recording, I must say that was also one of the ballsiest opening statements I've ever heard. They were incredible from front to back.

Yes it was the hardest thing he ever did. My brother never spoke to him again. I don't even know where he is now. The last I knew of him, he was playing bass guitar in a punk band somewhere in California. I found him when Dad died, because I felt he should know and hoped he might come home so I could try to talk him into staying with my family and straightening his life out. He never showed.

82 SCV....without a doubt in my mind the loudest crowd reaction ever. I was there live, and when they started into the Bottle Dance after not doing it all season long, the crowd got so loud that I had to wait for the album to come to hear the end of their show. And I mean that very literally with no exaggeration. From the time the contras started that signature "here come the Bottle Dance" phrase I didn't hear another note....just unrestrained screaming....that got even louder after the last note (which I only knew happened because I saw the horns come down).

Totally agree. It should have never gone down like that. Fairly spineless in all honesty.

hmmmmmmmm......sarcasm? Not the response I would expect from you. Not sure how to take it, so I'll just play it straight. No, I wouldn't beat him at all. Don't believe in it. But if he did act that irresponsibly when given the freedom to go on tour, then tour would be over. Look, I know that there are a lot of people more liberally minded in here than I am, but I truly don't care. You don't know me, or my children, and you aren't responsible for raising my children. When I was a kid, my brother came home from the army unexpectedly for a visit. My dad, who was a career Navy man, thought this suspicious. After some conversation, my brother admitted that he had gone awol. My father tried to talk him into going back and doing the right thing. He refused. My father called the authorities and turned him in. He even had to physically restrain him until the authorities showed up. I couldn't believe he was doing it. We talked about it many years later, right before pop died, and I learned a lot about how important it is to do right and be accountable when you do wrong. He new my brother was wrong and had to do right. He new that if he left my brother leave when he could have stopped him would have been acting as an accomplice, and that would be wrong. He did the right thing. It broke his heart, and it was one of the hardest things he ever had to do, but it was right. Morality, ethics, responsibility, respectability........these are real things. My children will be unimpeachable in all of them. You don't have to like how I choose to instill these values, but that doesn't matter to me, because it is my job and not yours to do it. If DCI truly wants to be a youth oriented organization that fosters the transition from youth to mature adults, then this issue of drugs, and some other issues, must be more strongly addressed.

This is why I'm for searches but not testing. However, if something is found in a search, then I would follow up with a drug test to complete an evidence trail so that the old "somebody planted that there" would carry a lot less weight.

Yep, when I started with Westshore in '82, I was 13. My parents had to sign all kinds of paperwork to get them to let me march. I don't know what they signed (I was too busy drooling over "guard chicks" walking by b**bs and not caring much about paperwork) but I'm guessing it was a bunch of liability release and insurance stuff.

Well then, if they are legal adults, then transportation home isn't the problem. "There's the airport. Don't let the bus door hit ya' on the way out!" And nobody said anything about busting those who are of legal drinking age for drinking. And if they are legal age to smoke, then they can smoke as long as they adhere to all other smoking regulations and bans, ie... not on school property, not on buses, not in uniform or corps jacket, etc... I would also add that if a corps member of age to drink is found to be the supplier of a corps member who is underage, then they are gone too. And if I am the parent of the underage drinker and I am informed of who supplied (which I better be) they will face charges.

Here's an interesting issue that I haven't seen brought up yet. If the child is a minor, there had better be parental notification. And if my minor child (I have a teenage boy) were caught drinking, smoking or using drugs and they called me (which they #### well better do) then they won't have to worry for a minute about getting him home. I would come and get his but myself.

I'm not saying your going to eliminate it all by catching every user, but the harder you make it to get away with it, the fewer people who will try. If you make it as close to impossible as you can, then only a hardcore user will try, and most of them would be too burnt to be involved in such a physically and mentally demanding activity and their tolerance levels would be up to the point of not being able to hide enough to simply maintain. Look, there are a lot of people on this thread who want to take a "just let the kids be kids" attitude about this, or the "nothings wrong with a little pot" attitude, but the fact is, those are no longer acceptable approaches today. It's time for the activity to ratchet up the enforcement and make it such a hassle to do these things that they won't be worth trying to do. Even the senior corps are starting to get this. Many senior corps are really cracking down on the underage drinking. It's a whole different gig than when I first marched seniors in the early 80s.

Obviously not. And jaywalking is not going to get a corps kicked out of their facilities. Jaywalking isn't going to get a kid arrested hundreds of miles away from home leaving a corps director with a rather sticky situation. Especially if he has to have his corps a few hundred miles further away by the next morning. Jaywalking isn't going to bring about numerous lawsuits about who was liable. Jaywalking isn't going to trash the reputation of the organization. Would you like to follow up with something even more ludicrous like not cleaning up after your dog? :D

First of all, pot is not the only drug in question. Second, illegal is illegal and a corps is liable for the actions of its membership. Third, this has never been about performance, its about the law and the need to get drugs out of the activity. If a member, staff member, and/or volunteer is caught using or possessing illegal drugs then they should be offered help and if refused removed or prosecuted.

It's most definitely an invasion of privacy, but so is living on a bus and in gyms with 150 other people. If it is clearly stated from day one and in the membership information and contract, then the prospective member has a choice to comply or not.