Siglow

B) When was I wrong the first time Honsman?

They also pulled out of DCA Championships in 2003 just a couple of days prior to contest time.

When the Crusaders "edged out" the New York Skyliners at the AL Nats in Washington, D.C. they had a LOT of help from "Doc" Shranker one of the drum execution judges on the field that night. Shranker had an 8 point spread (that's 8 full points, NOT 8/10ths of a point, but 8 points, 80 ticks) BELOW the other execution drum judge. In order for there to be an 8 point spread between these 2 execution judges it would mean that Shranker saw the New York Skyliner drumline as a bunch of neophites. Now, if there had been an 8 point spread between Shranker and the other execution drum judge for every corps that performed that night it would be legitimate but no such spread was there with any of the other corps, only the Skyliners. So in the record books Crusaders "edged out" the New York Skyliners. But I'm sure that somewhere those execution score sheets are in someone's possession. I'll never forget us marching off the field and the drumline throwing there sticks in the air and ripping the AL patch off of our uniforms. It was the final nail in the coffin. The AL was no longer the beacon of Drum Corps. After that show the mantle was past on to DCA.

This past June 6th at the Elks convention in Wildwood, N.J. I had a discussion a buddy of mine who was a former member of the Surisers and had marched that year and had been a witness not just to what occurred following the Prelims but also what had led up to that fiasco. The events that occurred that had gotten Butch Anderson so enraged was the following: The "rule of the day", as declared in the judges meeting just prior to prelims, was that each Corps would enter and exit the field to their own street beat. As we (New York Skyliners) finished our performance and were exiting to our street beat, the Sunrisers began their street beat before we had completely exited from the stadium. What Butch DIDN'T know was that the supervisor judge (that's the guy who tells each Corps to enter the field) told the Sunrisers DM, not once, not twice, but three times to enter the field. By "rule of the day" they would have to enter to their own street beat, that meant that they would have to start their street beat BEFORE we had completely exited the stadium. Suns DM refused to do that twice. The third time the supervising judge told Sun's DM that if he didn't have his Corps enter the field he would penalize Sunrisers. With that Suns DM started his Corps onto the field to their street beat. THAT is what enraged Butch (and few others of us who knew of the "rule of the day". After Sun finished their show and were exiting the stadium, Teddy Heumann, who my wife had marched with in the Secaucus Meadowlarks back in the mid 60's, aproached Butch to try and explain what had happened. Butch wasn't listening to any of it and what resulted was he and a couple of others form New York being attacked by a large number of Sunrisers. When Cabs, who were standing at the top of the hill saw that we (Skyliners were greatly out numbered) came to help us. IMHO, it was a stupid judge error compounded by someone or some people who just couldn't open their ears and listen to a simple explanation. "nough said. It's over. Thie above explanation is NOT meant to arouse any ill will, rather just to clarify what actuallt took place that day.

Hi Stan. Nice to see you posting ANYWHERE. You've been quiet MUCH TOO long. As for that fiasco back in '77 in Allentown, as I remember there WAS more then is being said here regarding what actually occurred. As Fran Haring stated the 2 that could best supply the most accurate discription would be Butch and Tommy Heumann. The only thing I remember from that afternoon following Prelims was being shoved onto the bus by Neuhoff and him telling the bus driver to "Get back to the hotel NOW". As I looked out of the window of the bus all I saw was Butch, Meyers and Ronnie in the middle of a melee and watching the Cabs coming down the hill to help those 3. In retrospect (as well as what I suspect after hearing from some people who knew EXACTLY WHY this incident occurred) I think that there was some type of "setup" perpetrated by a member of the NYS Corps. One of the major reasons why I think there was a "set-up" is because Neuhoff shoved me on the bus BEFORE the Cabs started down the hill to help Butch, Meyers and Ronnie. As I recall, the Sunrisers weren't very well like back then. Why, I have NO clue. But I remember they had this big, gigantic picture of a baby sitting in a high-chair with a bowl of spaghetti dumped over his head hanging on the side ot their equipment truck. Don't know if that had anything to do with anything. And you are very correct in that if there are those who still want to "debate" who did what to who, they do need to get a life. My only reason for rehashing the story is for reminiscing purposes ONLY. It's over and done with. Thinking back, the only thing I was ###### off at was the bus driver refused to stop the bus and let me out so I could "partake" in the festivities. At any rate, I'm REALLY looking forward to this coming weekend in Wildwood when I am once again reunited with you and Dan when we do the Archie thing again.