BDCorno
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Sorry if this has been asked, but I couldn't find anything in a forum search.
The Field Pass podcast alluded to a "surprise" change in the Blue Devils' show to be added at Buffalo. What did they change?
Thanks,
Patrick McNeal
After years of speculation, and due to years of technological advances, the long-rumored jet packs were inserted into the show. Unfortunately, a guidance malfunction caused a trumpet player to crash into a mirror and break it. Due to safety concerns, the jet packs have been shelved until next season.
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1. George Hopkins appeals to DCI with the opinion that the reflections in the mirror constitute additional performers. DCI rules committee agrees, BD is disqualified for too many members and Academy makes finals. Unfortunately, an observant T&P judge at finals realize that performers reflect in the bells of horns, causing mass penalties and disqualification of all top 12 corps. The ensuing riot forces DCI to refund all ticket monies, and DCI folds. Hopkins joins forces with producers from "America's Funniest Home Videos", and revives drum corps with a new weekly summer show "America's Most Entertaining Drum Corps". No judges, but home viewers vote for the winner via text messaging.
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I interpret everything about the show, but especially the musical book, as a twisted or negative image of a standard BD production. It's like they're taking a normal Blue Devils production, holding it up to a distorted mirror and showing you the result. If you listen closely, and are a big enough BD fan, you will begin to recognize bits and pieces of previous BD shows, but played with weird harmonies or distorted rhythms. Every time I watch it again, I catch another one, and I'm sure there are some I'm missing.
Case in point is the La Suerte section in the beginning. It's played straight when they're facing forward, but as soon as they turn back to face the mirrors everything starts to go weird harmonically.
To me, the big similarity between Star 93 and BD 2010 is that they both explore emotions and moods that you're just not used to drum corps attempting to portray. Drum corps tend to stick to relatively simple, easy to grasp emotions and moods: happy, sad, funny, angry, etc. The vibe of both Star 93 and BD 2010 is much stranger and darker and frankly, unpleasant. I think all the people who find themselves angry, discontent, creeped out, etc. at the end of the show are failing to realize that that is EXACTLY what the show is supposed to make them feel. It's kind of like the drum corps equivalent of a Darren Aronofsky movie.
You can go even deeper into it from an intellectual standpoint and see the way they're playing with the idea of obsessive introspection leading to madness in the way the performers sometimes watch themselves in the mirrors rather than performing to the audience, etc. but I don't think that's necessary to enjoy the show.
Very nice description/deciphering of the show concept. I'd like to expand on that if I could...
I believe what hangs a lot of people up is the focus on the "prop" and the limitations/expectations they place upon the mirrors. I've seen a lot of statements that address GE as something that the judge or viewer should "let come to them". I'd encourage the doubters to do exactly that...remove the negative hangups you may have with BD's show and simply take it in. The show theme is "Through a Glass, Darkly", not "Into a Mirror". Those who self-limit their ability to take in and understand the way BD uses the music and the mirrors (think WINDOW, not mirror) deprive themselves of the effects intended. Please watch the following three clips and change your mindset:
Notice the similarity among these three clips, and frame the show in those terms as you watch it next time. Didn't really make the Twilight Zone or Outer Limits connection until recently (and a lot of the younger crowd still may not relate), but it's a metaphor for the approach this season. Hopefully many of you will see it live, because video really doesn't capture the visual as well as you would in person. The dimensionality reflected through the mirrors evokes somewhat of a parallel dimension in which past corps from BD history exist. The mirrors are actually looking glasses and/or doors into the other dimension, and allow the crowd to see the present (on the field), past (through the "windows") and future (new concept show design) co-mingling in front of your eyes. The way the props are used gives the impression of the members (and perhaps those from the other side) being able to move in and out of these dimensions at will.
As Alan pointed out, at times the performers see their reflections in an obsessive introspection...is it a reflection of them in the present, or is there a past/parallel version of them through that glass? This gives the viewer a choice as well. What is it exactly that they are seeing? I find it most fascinating that there are different levels of musical and visual dissonance on display at any given time. Even the last push of the show comes from chaotic roots and resolves to harmonious musical and visual. Just when you think it's going to stay that way, the "darkness" creeps back in musically, a struggle between two pieces of music. Visually it compresses and corrals all that is going on, resolving in a short, furious and harmonious finish.
For me, it's a story of tradition, history, evolution of the activity and breaking through those barriers to the future. Effect? Like it or not, the show has generated mass quantities of discussion around the activity. I'd say it's been generally effective in that sense. I don't see a problem challenging the viewer. Variety is the spice of life, and drum corps absent variety would be a bore. Those who anguish that a sea of drum corps lemmings will plunge over a cliff - offering only dark, edgy programs that don't "entertain", are a little paranoid. If nothing else, this show pushes the envelope and allows room for others to grow creatively with their programs. Instinctively, most groups will gravitate toward the harmonious and accessible...controversial shows will continue to be the exception rather than the rule. I very much hope that the activity is not corralled into a tightly controlled, "vanilla" approach when it comes to show design. I'm concerned it's a lot like that in terms of performance now! Without freeing designers and performers artistically, a "safe" or "crowd pleasing" mandate will neither be safe for DCI's health, nor pleasing to the masses. Hope this answers some questions, sheds light or spurs some good dialogue.
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it's crap. a lame attempt at really pushing the "second chance" theme bc the rest of the show doesnt.
The "rewind" thing is hardly new...sort of a takeoff from the record skip VK used way back in 1983. The music is pleasant and all, but I don't see a corresponding "wow" factor to the changes.
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Agreed.
Maybe this gag approach could work once. Try it for 1-2 shows a year. Try it in a market with experienced, well-knowledged drum corps fans. (Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Southern California, some place like that.) Don't try it in a place where no one understands the first thing about drum corps - such as a place that has maybe 1 show a year, and 500 people show up. DCI already has a contest at Finals, for the folks who pay for the Fan Network, where they can vote on their favorites. That alone should be sufficient.
The activity needs fair, unbiased, and knowledgable judging. The adjudication in this activity is already difficult enough; it can be brutally subjective, and new judging controversies arise every year. Don't turn make it worse, by having HS band students do the judging. And that's effectively what the G7 proposal is asking for.
You are going to replace an experienced DCI judge, with perhaps decades of experience, with some 15-year-old kid who is still learning his scales? He is going to judge whether BD, Cavies or Crown had better balance in their horn line? He's going to give a higher score to BAC over Phantom, because he spotting some phasing or alignment problem in Phantom's closer?
Be serious, Gibbs and Hopkins. This has the potential to make a mockery of the competition - and has the potential to lead to grossly unfair results. Be fair to the MMs who are paying you bills, and give them credible judging.
I think a trial of this concept would be most revealing. Put the mechanism in place, then extrapolate the scores down and include the fan input. I think the assumed result would NOT necessarily be what you'd think. If the 'wrong' corps still won, then people would say that the fan voting was rigged. If the 'right' corps won due to the crowd overriding the judges, the losing group would complain. Complaints will always exist, and trying to cater to this crowd is never going to eliminate the whining. I don't think the idea is worth using - it degrades the judging panel and their expertise, and allows rank amateurs to possibly decide a show. For all the professionalism the G7 purports to champion, lowering the standards on who decides a contest is just completely asinine.
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The judging slates have included a LOT of people that weren't doing the bigger shows early. Variance in scores are not surprising in those situations. Really blows the hell out of the conspiracy theory that all judges do is look at old recaps instead of making independent decisions....
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Halftime Magazine (www.halftimemag.com).
What do you think? Did your choices for most legendary drum corps shows make the list?
-GM
I find it quite curious that the 1976 Blue Devils show was left off both lists. It was groundbreaking in many ways: longest musical number to date (Channel One), new direction visually (all curvilinear drill), and the first corps in history to sweep all captions. Unlike the current iteration, the corps was wildly popular at the time. I guess 35 years later, many of the people polled don't remember, or weren't around to experience those days. I guess it's no surprise that only three out of the seventeen mentions were corps prior to 1980, with one being the Kingsmen ("the first winner" seems an odd rationale for legend status, though they were a fine corps). I guess the 1975 Muchachos should have been the #1 choice...a true legend, as we don't (and won't) ever know what they did, or would have done.
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A) Here is where the G7 proposal begins to show its flaws. If prices go up, are you targeting your product to the correct market? Will your average HS band student be willing to part with $75 to $100 for a drum corps show - even a Tour of Champions show?
B) They want to play "tour of champion" shows in these places: Texas, Nebraska, Chicago, the Carolinas, and the NY Metro area. Some of these choices make sense, and some don't.
But here is my bigger concern: what percentage of the target market lies within a 2-hour driving radius of these shows? Again, your target market is now HS band members. Perhaps 10% of the U.S. population - and your target market - is within this radius. So how are the members of your target market going to get there? Effectively 90% of their customer base is cut off, by this placement approach.
I totally agree with your point, which I labeled "A". There is a slide that talks about cutting out the "independent promoter" in favor of DCI running all shows. Many shows are fund raisers for either the "unwashed masses" of smaller corps or high school music programs. Cutting off the potential fund raising benefit for those programs will not engender greater support - probably less. Many high school music programs struggle simply to stay alive. Kids having to (or kids' parents choosing to) pony up $75-100 to attend a show is not likely, when the choice is keeping their band afloat (which directly benefits them), or buying tickets to the show (which benefits ONLY the corps at the show, and provides temporarty entertainment for one night). "A" target market, yes. "The" target market? NO.
Point "B" brings up a situation that makes my blood boil. Anyone notice something missing? How about the whole western half of the United States? Cripes! You have had the two most consistently successful organizations in DCI history located on the western seaboard. The indifference displayed toward the cumulative success of, and potential fan base/market created by these two organizations is simply mind boggling. After 35 years of abject snubbing of the west coast, DCI finally held championships in California. From what I'm told, it was a record crowd. If not, it was still quite impressive. So what does DCI do in the face of that referendum on the popularity of drum corps on the west coast? It signs up with Indy for TEN YEARS in the same location. After almost more than four decades of neglect, DCI gets people on the west coast excited about the activity again - then thumbs its nose at them. Talk about all the wrong moves...
Any CEO or marketing director that allowed their company to ignore a massive slice of potential business (while showing a massive decrease in sales) would be fired in an instant. I posit that the target market should be former drum corps people - young adults with families, middle aged with teenagers, empty nesters. From a sales standpoint, these are the demographics that are upwardly mobile and more likely to spend the money we're looking at. Every single former drum corps member does not need to be educated or made familiar with the activity. Each can be an unpaid advocate for the activity, if they can only be shown that they are valued enough to have the activity brought to them. They can influence more people faster, more efficiently and at a lower cost than any "hired gun" you can come up with.
Market to the entire country...not just to the eastern half of it. Leverage the untapped potential of the west to lead DCI out of the wilderness, if you will. As with many companies, I'll bet the margin between success and failure financially is quite slim. Could it be that the missing link has been a failure to tap ALL potential revenue streams, not just the ones that are convenient? I think it would behoove the decision makers to consider these questions.
Last but not least, I don't buy the assertion that the corps don't entertain the crowd any more. I've watched most of the webcasts, and have attended a couple of live shows this year. I find most of the shows to be entertaining, in varying degrees. There is a substantial amount of uproar over the "entertainment value" of the Blue Devils in particular, and Vanguard to a lesser extent. These shows for me are intellectually entertaining...a concept that should not be discounted. I think shows would be quite boring if all programs were designed to evoke the same "jump on your feet" reaction. Much like a comedy routine, everything can't be a punch line...ebb and flow, variety and creativity should be allowed to blossom. Should "yeah!" be any more of a valid reaction than "ahh!", "wow" or "hmmm?". If so, why? If not, why not?
I don't like the proposal for crowd input into the scoring. The premise seems to be that the judging system is unfair, so it must be balanced. Geographically, any show can create an unfair advantage/disadvantage in crowd support. Is adding an almost certainly unfair component into the scoring mix going to "fix" this "problem"? The answer is a resounding NO. Quit fiddling with the judging, quit fiddling with the crowd-o-meter concept and start bringing back our alumni to the fold. First things first. The rest will take care of itself!
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BD has been down in drums several times this season so no surprise there. However, this may be the first loss to the Cavaliers??
No, Cavs got them a few shows ago as well. Not by .4 though...
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"They didn't suck"
;-)
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For Those of You Who Attended DCI Atlanta Last Night
Who Had the Loudest Hornline ?
How can anyone know for sure, with all the synth reinforcement behind the impact points?
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Shouldn't they be penalized? Why have penalties if they are rarely enforced?
Don't tell that to the Blue Knights!
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Depends on what you mean. If, for example, a judge felt that the Blue Devils' show lacked much of the types of sustained and simultaneous demand that every other top hornline demonstrates, while other judges think ten minutes of brief discordant bursts are the greatest thing ever, his marks will probably be lower than those other judges....
If there was a "sustained and simultaneous demand that every horn line MUST display" sheet, it would likely be a different story. I wouldn't count on it any time soon.
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From SCV facebook page:
UPDATE FROM THE ROAD....Lightening strikes within 100 feet of SCV practice field as tropical depression "Bonnie" dissipates. Everyone shaken but OK.
Talked to my daughter today, She confirms, everyone is ok.but as she said. I still feel a bit tingly.
You know what this means? They're going to win it all now (ever see "The Natural"?) They need to wear bolt patches on their unis now.
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From SCV facebook page:
UPDATE FROM THE ROAD....Lightening strikes within 100 feet of SCV practice field as tropical depression "Bonnie" dissipates. Everyone shaken but OK.
Talked to my daughter today, She confirms, everyone is ok.but as she said. I still feel a bit tingly.
I hope everyone still has their hearing intact...the lightning will pass, but hearing loss is forever!
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I think SCV had a three way tie for high percussion in '91 and they ended up in fourth.
Nothing was quite as brutal as when the 1977 Oakland Crusaders took high drums in prelims and failed to make finals. That is likely a record that will NEVER be broken!
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At least 14 dropped in score. Come on people. This ain't right as they say in the south. And after one show? Go ahead and love it and make excuses. I just don't know.
Someone needs a hug! [not that I'm offering! ;-)]
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Thanks for this explanation. You make some valid points for sure.
My hope is that all 23 WC corps will be objectively evaluated throughout the season and if a corps is able to "catch" and pass another then that will happen and "perceptions" from earlier in the season won't prevail. I realize there is a big difference between the top 4-5 and quite honestly the rest of the field. I would say especially 8 or 9 down should certainly be open for some people to emerge from all through the spread of corps. This is what will make the season more fun. For instance I thought it very interesting that Glassmen's score from Friday puts them ahead of Madison and both within striking distance of Blue Knights. While the corps sitting 13-18 are within striking distance of the 11-12 slots. I hope there is the potential for alot of movement yet to come.
Thx. A strong year for sure, a lot of the bubble corps are putting on a strong push. Seems to be vigorous battles going on all over the place. Keeps it exciting, that's for sure.
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It's hard to accept some of these scores when certain corps 'ahem', are 2 pointing their next closest corps to stay in 1st place. To me, BD is way too high or the corps below them are not close enough in terms of points. I really don't see that big of a gap between the corps. Granted I'm not a judge so I'm guessing that gap will close in the next couple weeks.
It's basically inevitable as they inch closer to 100. Everyone has their opinion, but all bias aside I think the scoring is about right at this time. Doesn't mean the most entertaining show is getting the highest score. In fact, for me it's buried in the middle of the pack.
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Back when I marched, we would have considered Molson Brador the "official beer of the Blue Devils".
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My problem is, it seems to have happened at one or two events. The GROUPS are not going through a SLUMP. OVERALL there is a judging problem. They should address that. Simple and to the point. And maybe a reason DCI is losing viewers. They need to address these types of issues.
Should have clarified...scoring slump. Look at the bottom of the chart...those groups have leveled out and some even dropped. If this was the same panel of judges every show, you might have a case. Small panels at early season shows have an impact. Many of the corps are seeing large panels for the first time, and many judges are seeing corps for the first time head to head. Refer to my original post for the rest...
As long as overall scoring of the corps stays in the correct "box", and area of the same box, then there's little to complain about. Are kids and fans so thin-skinned these days that they can't deal with a two point drop in score? If you're scoring 75 and you get a 73, that's a 2.7% difference...hardly a statistical disaster. Corps have bad nights, too. Maybe some actually were 2% or more "off" in their performances. The pressure of a big meeting of corps for the first time, weather, bus breakdowns...any of a number of conditions can be in play. If everyone on the slate had seen everyone already...or not...that is something to consider. Point is, too many variables to really pin it on the judging alone. It's always a little squirrely this time of year. Are you proposing DCI tells judges what minimum score they have to give a corps, based on previous shows? There is already too many conspiracy theories about dictated scores and placings...do we need to make it reality? Hope everyone gets over it!
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I ask everyone to look at the Blue Knights Graph. It gives a better picture of what happened. http://bknights.org/scores/standings.asp
Nice graph, hadn't seen it before. I think it tends to validate my observations on the scoring. Things will now tighten up, with the lower scoring groups seeing the largest improvements.
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I just wanted to address the concerns re/mid-level corps stalling or regressing score-wise. It's likely more a function of human nature than anything. When I was in brass judge training years back, we did an exercise in which we watched a number of shows. They were a from wide variety of proficiency levels and styles. All of us were asked to rank and score the shows. Once we were done, they put the scores onto the board in a large grid. What we found was that there was far less disagreement on scoring/ranking of the better groups in comparison to the lesser quality performances. As the quality of the group waned, the rank and rate was increasingly inconsistent amongst the judging group. It was illustrative in that it's more difficult to judge and score "the field" than it is the big powerhouses.
My theory is that regional shows involving mid-level corps tend to over-score those groups...not always, but more often than not. When we get to the middle of the season and more groups get together from around the country, it gets even more complicated. In anticipation of seeing groups not previously evaluated, the baseline numbers will tend to start lower. The judge has to account for and leave room for unexpected scoring. If unseen groups end up not exceeding the seen groups in quality, then those scores will tend to drop overall. Being as it is that there is little dispute over the best groups, those numbers can tend to escalate, leaving a huge gap between the two sets of groups. On the surface, it appears the judges think a group has not improved, when it's clearly not the case. In reality, it's a natural part of the season. Once all have been seen in head-to-head conditions, a normalization of scores should ensue.
We've seen a substantial jump in scores among the top groups, and you'll likely have the mid-level groups seeing rapid inflation of their scores over the next week or so. It's all part of the process. Particularly for groups going through a "slump" at this time, it's important that their staffs keep the focus on personal improvement and not the scoreboard. All the performers can control is their own personal performance level...it will be rewarded, but persevering through the midseason blahs is an important part of the process...
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I still have my yearly complaint ...................
If 2 or 3 or 4 corps deserve the same score according to the sheets .. then give them the same score.
Whether it be an 8.0, 9.0 or a 9.9 ... I don't care. IF they're all deserving, then that's what their score should be.
Rank and Rate has always been and will always be a thorn in my side.
If judges don't rank and rate, what are they supposed to do? They're paid TO MAKE DECISIONS. They're also paid to REFLECT THE RELATIVE DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY when deciding between two or more corps. It's unfortunate that there is so much demonization/disrespect/criticism of people just doing their jobs. The sheets do not dictate a particular score, simply a range of scoring if you meet the (quite general) criteria of that "box". It is still incumbent upon the judges to score the corps within that range relative to their own proficiency AND to the other corps. It IS a competition and someone must pick winners...it just happens to be the judging panel!
Help Needed
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by BDCorno
Try Travelocity's "Last Minute Deals". They include hotel accomodations, and I've found many times the total cost is less than the flight itself. In fact, I've booked them before and not even used the hotel portion. You may have to be flexible on flights, but it's better than getting hosed by the airline.
Oops. Just look at LastMinute.com. Sorry!