jdostie

I just replied to a PM from Brian. I marched with him in the '70's. I had joined the yahoo alumni group because I saw it in Mike Nash's and Brians sigs. However I became confused and unsubscribed from the group. I wasn't sure that this was for non-freelancer alumni. However, Brian, in his PM suggested you might need a sop player. I don't know that I am ready to play again, I just picked up my trumpet a few days ago, and am trying to rebuild my chops, but I want to keep my options open. Are you trying to create an all-age corps, just get together and play, or are you just seeing what happens? edit: Also, I notice that the web page says bring your own horn, are you using G Bugles or trumpets etc?

I know that there a proponents of mouthpiece work for its own purpose. I have never thought it was much more than a way to practice quietly, or when using a horn is not convenient. We used to do it when we'd run through a field show at night (I don't know how late, but dark out), so as not to disturbe the residents that lived next to the field where we practiced. The reason I am going for it here is that it is convenient, can you imagine me driving down the road for two hours with a trumpet in one hand and a steering wheel in the other? Probably not the best idea. I picked up a copy of Arban's to see what I can do about exercises, especially ones that I think will help me get things back in shape, or will work on old areas I wanted to work on back then.

Thank you, for that, any thoughts about difficulties buzzing without a mouthpiece I mentioned above? Is it purely psychological, poor technique? I always marveled at one guy who did it very well. For me it seemed a way to warm up, but I could never go around and "play a show" on lips alone.

I began discussing this in another thread, so to focus on this subject I wanted to start a new topic. Here are some relevant quotes: and and http://www.trumpetteacher.net/welcome.html And http://www.xtremebrass.com/store/product_i...products_id=129 I like the advice, though the temptation to actually pickup the mouthpiece overcame me. As did the temptation to try the horn last night. My daughter said "you're good," but she has no idea. At least there is something there to work with. Intonation sounded ok, range was very narrow with the trumpet, but with the mouthpiece alone it seemed better (which is why I tried the trumpet), I wanted a measure of what I have to work with. Now, I thought I was a pretty fair horn player back in the day, not great but respectable. Back then, if I'd had it available, I would have gone straight for the xtreme brass chopbuilders. I am going to make a big assumption here, and say that hey, with work, I can get to where I was (though I hope to eventually get better than that), but you'll understand me. At which point, that's a program I'd want to work with. Now, because I am trying to work on fundamentals at this point, and yes to build my chops back, the question is, would the "Balanced Embraucher" from http://www.trumpetteacher.net/welcome.html and the chopbuilder approach be compatible. In other words as long as I am working on basics, I want to work on the "right" basics if you will. I don't want to work with one notion of embraucher, and then get to a point where "that works to about this point, but now you need to relearn yet again." Or, is it something as simple as - hey, just work on buzzing without the mouthpiece, remember the embraucher you had, and work the flexibiliy and range together through slurring exercises up and down my range? I know I have to walk before I can run, but some things seem like they are in place - even though the muscles aren't, or maybe it's because the muscles aren't, but you know how a horn player can be, you have to experiment to see what you can do. Even without any range, I can do something of a trill on my mouthpiece. If I kept working that while working as described above would I develop technique that much faster, or just impede my progress in other areas. In one sense, picking up a horn after 30 years is exactly like starting from the beginning, in some senses it's worse because your expectations can be too high, and in some senses (at least I think so at this point) it's better, because it feels like I could just go at it and build the muscles back up. Of course, I have some other challenges too. I played my soprano a lot more than I ever played my trumpet, and now there is a third valve to think about. That, and the notes are all 4 steps higher than my ear wants them to be. But those should be fairly easy to work through. As for buzzing without a mouthpiece, I have always found this difficult - being that there is nothing to buzz against if you will - not really a question of pressure (unless I tried to go to work at the edges of my range), just that I need to feel something there. Finally, anyone have experience with this, and how long it takes to rebuild the chops. I know, it's dependant on how much time you practice, but hey, I have about 4 hours of commute time every day that I can use for buzzing and mouthpiece practice. And given other things I am involved with, actual horn time would be something like Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday. That's a lot of buzz time, if not a lot of horn time. Any thoughts on the different methods, or anything I've said here?

More to the point, If we have marching band already, and we have drum corps, and we merge them into one, marching band won't stop being marching band, but drum and bugle corps will stop being drum and bugle corps and become drum and band corps - which is marching band. As to the point about drum and bugle corps gaining students/participants from all the changes, I've been away for a while, but there sure used to be a whole lot more corps to march in. Does anyone have the figures for active drum corps participants over the years? Does it put more people in the seats? Maybe, again, there are raw numbers available for this. But, here is the thing, if you bring in woodwinds, and make drum corps essentially marching band, I am guessing the 'need/demand' for one or the other will go away. Why do I need to go to all the trouble of sending my kid off to drum corps when he/she can do this as part of school and get credit for it . . . Or, to use the ice cream analogy, I can have vanilla or I can have vanilla. I guess I'll take vanilla. I think marching band is just fine, and drum corps is fine. To use the ice cream analogy, they are both ice cream. But a point was made "why didn't you get your order, there was a great product on the field" (paraphrased), I would just say that if I asked for a Chocolate Dove Bar Ice Cream and got a Vanilla Dove Bar Ice Cream - in a chocolate wrapper - hey, it's a fine product, but it isn't what it says it is. The point has been made that the Board of Directors is going to do what is best for DCI, that's what boards are supposed to do. But belive it or not, boards want to know what people think, what product they want, and how to best differentiate their product from the competition. And here is an important point, the corps have some level of autonomy - at least so far. Correct me if I am wrong, but if, say the 1972 Kingsman took the field they would still be allowed to field their show. I never saw them, but I certainly heard about them, I am guessing that a bunch of the kids today would be saying "That's Awesome." Thinking this through from a business perspective, its important that the board hear what the consumers (here I mean participants, patrons, boosters, and sponsors) want, but it is also important that the decision makers in each corps have a clear vision for their corps - one that is supported by their own participants and boosters. If they field a product that is reminiscent of "old school" drum and bugle corps and it is wildly successful, more corps will follow suite. You might not get rule changes - especially ones that involve undoing equipment purchases (this is one reason why allowing woodwinds is probably a one way transaction), but you might get a kind of 'market equalibrium.' Finally, I think that it's perfectly normal to lament certain changes. It's understandable why people might say that we should "change with the times," get into the 21'st century, but they should also understand that in doing so, they are asking people to lose something of what they love without grieving for their loss. And then to the extreme, of going to full fledged marching band, I'm not sure if there is complaint among the bands about what they are "absorbing" from drum corps - being biased, I don't know what they would implement that they would complain about . . . maybe there is an argument but from my vantage point (skewed obviously) what they add - yes makes them more like drum corps in some ways, but I don't see where it redefines their product (again no direct knowledge here). But, there are certain things that re-define drum corps at its most basic level (woodwinds is an obvious one) that would ask drum and bugle corps to give up its very identity. Surely it's easy to see why - those types of changes - are um, not looked upon favorably. Both sides have some legitimate points of view, and I am guessing that most don't mind some changes, but there are certain changes that I think most are fearful would be the point of no return. I hope this was reasonably balanced and addresses both sides of the question in a well reasoned manner. And for the recored, personal preference would be drum corps ala the late '1970's because that's what I knew and loved, yet I can recognize that for some, it had already evolved far beyond what they like in a corps. Line in the sand would be where you come to an event and say, "Is this a marching band event or a drum corps event" because you can't tell the difference. And then there is all the gray stuff in the middle, stuff I might not care for, but understand why it was done (Bb horns for example).

Here is the thing, for me, it hasn't passed away, I've been in a coma for the last 29 years or so. I woke up, and there are trumpets - I guess you could call a trumpet a bugle (my soprano was not that different). The shows (those I have seen - remember I said I was in a coma, but I guess I had a few moments of waking, catching replays of shows on tv or whatever), became more theatrical (I didn't much care for that, but a little bit is ok), marching (apparently no longer requires high steps in marking time), that's a surprise to me, and one I have ambivalent feelings about since I used to get yelled at "get your knees up." All that said, horns, drums, and guard are the principal elements. There is still some distinction between marching band and drum corps. If woodwinds come in, then what will be the difference. Look, it's for the participants to decide what they want to participate in. However, there will come a time, which seems to be rapidly approaching, that a decision will have to be made about whether drum and bugle corps is drum and bugle corps or band. Otherwise, the corps will start competing directly against marching band, and you will end up with something like Marching, Music and Theatrics Championships. All I know for sure is that when my daughter asked me about drum and bugle corps, (she woke me from my coma), and her understanding of it (from freinds currently marching in corps) is so different from my experience, we are certainly not talking about quite the same thing.

I just sent over a request via the "fan network," in indicated that I understand the reluctance to distributing these due to lack of demand, but also indicated that they might be surprised at what the actual demand would be. Then I suggested that they log my request and other such requests as "intended demand." Having worked in a service business, I know that sometimes people say (with regard to problems with equipment) "we've not had any reports of that problem," and having been closely been involved with whatever was at issue been able to say "I am quite certain this problem has been reported before because I had to report it for the following customers . . ." No "recorded" demand is not the same as no demand. Funny thing is, it's likely that folks out there have these recordings. I am pretty sure I used to have them myself (all those years ago). All it takes is the right person reading the post . . . but then, it could get tiresome seeing these discussions come up over and over.

I hope this isn't considered off topic, but what about the guy (me) who hasn't played in about 30 years. Any advice for starting over? Not just in terms of range, but overall. Back in the day (at 17 like the original poster is now), double G was my highest "predictable" note. My lip dexterity was fair, I was working on developing a good lip trill. I picked up a trumpet a few months ago and sounded like . . . well, I did't sound good. I thought I' just get a mouthpiece and start going at lip dexterity exercises working the range up and down for several weeks while I commute (it's a long drive) before picking up a horn again. I might add some tonguing exercises to that. At 45 I don't know what opportunities to play again will ever be, but who knows, maybe an ensemble or something at some point. . . I wonder how long it will take to get back to a point where I won't embarrass myself.

It's kind of funny, I think we all think of "traditional" in terms of our era or perhaps entre' into drum and bugle corps. My first half season was valve/rotor, and I was pleased to no end to get a two-valve horn. Funny thing, I never really liked my trumpet as much as my soprano. I've been out of the game for something like 30 years, and haven't even followed drum corps until my daughter started marching band this year and started asking about drum corps. Now all the old juices are flowing. I loved Santa Clara during my era, and was surprised (several years back now) to see the Vanguard with some sort of theatrical performance on the field. Then really surprised to see that drum corps is using three valve horns. Now I am hearing of trumpets and tubas, that's really starting to strike the nerve, but then I see the thing about wood winds - well, if would winds were entered, it would be a full-fledged band right? There is nothing wrong with marching band IMO, but it is a different thing, also IMO. In the late '70's we had some "flashy" shows I guess, but it was all about precision I think. I can't comment about today's drum corps - really - especially in terms of precision, but I know that in that day there was a very different emphasis and feel to drum corps vs. marching band. Heck, even going into the Navy, and playing in the boot camp drum and bugle corps showed that. There, we had a lot of marching band folks - I may have been the only drum corps type at the time I went through (Jan '81), but it's funny, looking at the photos in the (is it a yearbook if boot-camp was only a little over two months?) I stuck out like a sore thumb because I was the only one holding my horn up. So even in an actual military environment you can see that there is/was a difference between the two worlds. I guess I have no problem with advancing, particularly when it comes to technology, so long as the root remains the same. Precision et al, horns, drums, flags, rifles, and sabres. I have no problem with using three valves instead of two (though I liked two better), but somehow the line is crossed when you cross to "trumpets and tubas" and stop calling them bugles - I certainly if wood-winds were added, then I think it's time to have MBI (for all I know there is such a thing as Marching Band Internation) as a seperate and distinct organization than Drum Corps International. Having entered in to drum corps during the early DCI era, I can't comment whether DCI was the cause of all the changes, or DCI just went with the flow, but to me, drum corps will always be synonymous with '70's DCI. Always had respect for what came before, but what was there when "I" was there defined it for me by virtue of my experience. Does that make sense? That's $.02 that probably isn't worth what it used to be.

Thanks for the response; so sorry to bring it up again. I was certain it had been discussed, but did not see it on a search.

Didn't DCI used to have recordings of all of the competing drum corps for sale? I remember seeing Drum Corp West for example in the old days. I am thinking, of course of class A drum corps for example, or corps that did not make it to open class finals. I'd like to get my hands on a few old recordings from the late '70's. Specifically the DCI Class A finals. Also, I think I saw where someone in the DCI organizaiton was asking for some recordings of these old corps. But if they had such recordings at one time, what happened to them?

These photos seem to have gotten dropped. Too bad, I would have like to seen this.

Hey Matt, Mike, Brian, and Kelly: This is Joe Dostie. Wow, it's great to see some old photos. I have none from those days. Lots of memories though. I marched with the Conquistadores 1977 - 1979.