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Liahona

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Posts posted by Liahona

    World Class Motivation

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    Based upon all of the people who seem to be supporting this form of abuse, I must presumre that it is very prevalent in drum corps, and widely accepted. This saddens me.

    I, for one, do not believe it should ever be accepted.

    I had hoped to avoid mentioning and names of specific corps, but in order to explain my concern, I must. The corps where the blog was posted happended to be the Carolina Crown. The sad fact is that when I saw the young man collpase on Saturday, one of the first thoughts in my mind was that it was to be expected considering how hard the members had been pushed this season. It is a sad point that from what I had heard and what I had read, I was not surprised to see this young man's body break down. (Here comes another tirade from the know it alls because I dared mention the corps in quesion, but it does seem to be very relavent.)

    I am not concerned about a few pushups. I am concerned about that fact it seems to be accpetable to beat these kids into the ground to the point that there could be another Ryan incident in the future.

    I hated seeing him go down. I hate the fact there could be a correlation between the practice techniques of that orgnization and his injury.

    I would love to find out I am wrong, but I don't think I will. Many people are arguing this form of abuse is accpetable. I will never accept any actions that could lead to another broken leg due to fatigue or overuse of the body.

    From the way many of you are acting, it seems you think it is okay to push that hard. If you do, and you join a drum corps, I hope you have a good expereicne, more importantly, I hope you are not injured by over working your body.

    Errors occur. Nobody wants to make them. After four hours on the field, with no significant breaks, fatigue will cause the mind and body to wonder, leading to brain farts. The solution should never be to make the indivdual more tired. This will only lead to more brain farts, or more importantly, injuries, that could lead to more occurences like Saturday night. I don't ever want to see something like that again, but considering how many of you feel the abuse is acceptable, I must presume it is only a matter of time before we see another incident.

    This subject has turned into the "argument" I was trying to avoid.

    I had heard many stories of how hard Crown was pushing all year. Some of my sources happen to be medical doctors who attended their camps to see it first hand. They mentioned how concerned they were for the health of the members. When I read the blog, I had to believe there was some truth to the story. When I saw Ryan go down, I was furioius mainly because I was not surprised. My friends' concern was born out and a serious injury did occur.

    If the concern of a long time drum corps pariticipant is rediculous then I guess I am a feeble, old guy, but I started this discussion because of a real concern. I don't want there to be any more Ryans out there , but I must presume there will be more. Nobody wants to step up and admit this is out there, and nobody seems to feel it is wrong. I only hope the next occurence is not more serious.

    I feel very sad about what drum corps has become if this is acceptable. Rehearsals are run like prison camps with physical and mental abuse being the norm in the chase of perfection. What has our society become when this is okay?

    You have groups of highly motivated, highly talented young men and women who are giving up their time, and paying dearly to participate. It should not be necessary to abuse them to get them motivated. While it may take more effort to motivate in a positive manner, I can assure you the results will be better. The abuse method is a cop out because it is easy to scream and holler and it is easy to punish.

    Crown came out of the gates this season so strong I presumed they would go far. As the season went on, I saw a drum corps crash and burn before my very eyes. From Murfreesboro on, every performance was weaker than the last. Yes, the scores went up, but scores are driven more by the celendar than they are by actual performance. The kids were pushed harder and harder and the results were negative. It hurt to watch this from the outside, but my concern seems to be considered worthless.

    I am going to give up on this thread. Obviously nobody wants to be honest about what is happening. I can only presume the secrecy is because of fear of what may happen should the truth get out.

    God help the members of corps ten years from now if we keep moving in this direction.

    This was my first post on DCP and will be my last. I was trying to do something positive and it got turned competely around. What seems to amaze me is I feel many of the people responding are not, nor have aver been members of a drum corps. This is so very, very sad.

    This sounds like nothing more than a OVER-EXAGGERATION of the facts. I don't follow your logic as it seems flawed. Sorry!

    Fan Network Videos from Finals Question...

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    In this case yes, find a different angle, however I'm still bothered about DCI changing the BD 07 footage. 1993 had numerous falls, especially the Cavies. No editing done. That was the final performance on the Video, Broadcast and DVD. Let's not try to advocate for this activity to be more mainstream and then when an imperfection occurs, let's erase it from History. You don't see that in other competitive idioms. SCV had some minor solo miscues 1989, no change in the Final Cut.

    This!

    Scoring Question

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    See? Here's the problem - IF Corps #12 pulls it all together and performs THE kick butt show of the night, should they be scored low in order to "leave room" for the "Top" 11? This is my major reason for supporting a return to the now denigrated "tick" system.

    Flame away! This former "Dinosaur" is now a "Fossil" and thus. fireproof! :tongue:

    Why don't we just have them go on in reverse order or a completely random draw that is not in groups. Devils on first might be interesting?....lol

    Best Madison Scouts show of the 1990s

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Liahona

    Here's another poll for the Madison Scouts...your favorite show of theirs for the 90s.

    My choice - and I'm sure most people's choice - is 1995!

    I'm going with 1991 "City of Angels" because I just really loved that show from top to bottom and just loved the sopranos. My close 2nd will be 1995. While I like Latin themed music, at that point in time when I saw the show I remember being a little tired of it.

    Your favorite Star of Indiana shows of "all time"

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    My favorite show for Star of Indiana by far has to be 1991 with "Roman Images". My least favorite was in 1993 with "The Music of Barber and Bartok". It's just boring Bartok IMO. For me music makes the man...so to speak. I don't like Bartok and didn't like SCV this year either because of that. In addition, while I really enjoyed Blast (saw 3 different times) I still missed Star with their on field performance that only a live drum corps show can give me. That's one reason why I go to drum corps shows every year! I love them!

    World Class Motivation

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    I have beeen hearing sotries regarding how the instructional staffs of corps "motivate" the members these days. In many cases, it appears they use the threat of physical penalty for making errors, such as running laps or doing push ups.

    I would like to know how prevalent this practice has become.

    I can't say for what is going on now, but I did a lot of laps and push ups as a penalty my rookie year in 90. I would imagine it is not all that different now even. To me it was a good motivator to get my head on straight and FOCUS. I really don't see it as a bad thing either. There are other ways to motivate, but I think this is a valid strategy.

    Fan Network Videos from Finals Question...

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    The last two minutes just rips my guts every time. It is so painful to watch.

    Would anyone mind if it was substituted with the semis performance instead?

    While I feel bad for Ryan and I really do. I would also be upset if they edited anything to be honest. I'm happy with the way it is. That's WHY its supposed to have at least a live feeling and not seem just like a recording. Things do happen. Every time I watch my final age-out performance I have to watch the contra fall down. He stepped on my foot in the opening set! Do you think it bothers me to watch my corps video and watch the contra fall down every time? Of course it does, but it just happened. So I just deal with it. I think a few are just making too much over this, but at the same time I understand your compassion about it.

    Boston Crusaders 2010

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    As I write this, the final scores have not yet been announced, but several bloggers from the show say the corps was on fire tonight---WITH a few additional moments of Conquest. I have had the priviledge of getting to know many of this year's members, and I will tell anyone who will listen that they are "True-Blue Crusaders". I am proud of each and every one one of them. The only thing these kids and staff can control is their own performance, and watching them in competition (in person) a dozen times this summer, they have gotten it done. Our kids and staff CANNOT control the growth of other corps like Madison and Bluestars. They also cannot control what seems to me to be a DCI nostalgic soft spot for our friends from Santa Clara. I know that a few people here have lamented the scores----which have been stubbornly running about 2 points too low in my mind, but I would remind everyone that the reason why this organization is still around after 70 years is that we DON'T gava.....

    Finally, as far as I am concerned, the 2010 Boston Crusaders have WON DCI this year. The mere presence of Waldo atop a throne denoting "70"on the field during finals after so many debacles over the years is proof enough for me. I only wish I could have gone to finals this year....to witness 150 of the best young men and women singing GIANT in the tunnel...and to know that beneath those uniforms were beating the hearts of 150 GIANTS.

    Eat'em Up, Boston.

    I find it interesting that you mention the nostalgic soft spot for SCV. I've thought that for many years now, but it just goes to show you what a real legacy the late great Gail Royer contributed and left for that corps and organization. :)

    I also got very choked up hearing "Giant" on the fan network being sung by BAC. They are ALL winners out there, but unfortunately "the numbers" are the only measuring stick throughout the season. My greatest memory was excited crowd reaction. :) The numbers truly were just meaningless and in my reality unimportant.

    Boston Crusaders 2010

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    From Bob Kennedy, BAC Historian. This question was asked back in May 08...

    Tue May 20, 2008 7:16 am (PDT)

    I will give you a little background on Conquest, it was from The Movie: Captain of Castile which debuted in Theaters January 1st 1947. It Starred Tyrone Powers, Cesar Romaro "The Joker" from the Batman series in the 60's & Lee J. Cobb. The Composer of Captain of Castile/Conquest was Alfred Newman.

    Ed Dennon the Corps Brass Aranger in the 1960's was the one who introduced Conquest to the corps. The Boston Crusaders first used a version of The Musical Piece in thier 1969 & 1970 Seasons, in the begining and end of their shows. The Corps also used Conquest in their closer from 1973-1990. The Corps at the end of their show would come to a company front to the calls, then proceed to end their show with Conquest taking the company front up field toward the fans, this was a Crowds favorite, & fans could never get enough of Conquest. Fans in the stands would scream cry & always gave the Corps standing ovation after standing ovation till the corps left the Stadium into the parking lot!

    The Corps again did a show of Captain of Castile & Conquest in the begining and end of thier 1998 Show.

    Since 1999 the Corps uses the calls of Conguest in various parts of the Corps shows year after year. I am sure there are many out there who can add to this story of Conquest & I hope they will...

    You can also research the Corps musical History at

    http://www.corpsreps.com/corpsreps.cfm?vie...orpstype=Junior

    Bob Kennedy

    Thanks for this post. It now puts everything I've pretty much known and forgot also into perspective. I was very proud to be in BAC's hornline in 1990 having played "Conquest" as the closer. One of the things I remember most was the sheer amount of appreciation of the crowd after our performance. Thank you to all that were in the audience that year cheering us on as it sure meant a lot and I will NEVER forget it:)

    Dan Acheson contract renewed as DCI Executive Director

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    Yes. There are numerous shows accross the country every single year that do not have G-7 corps at them, not to mention all of the corps home shows. It may result in a few less marketable shows overall, but keeping up with the current touring model is the biggest financial gripe anyways.

    I for one went to one of them this year and it was a awesome night of drum corps in Bridgeport Connecticut! My only disappointment was there was no encore.

    As far as the touring model is concerned the REGIONAL model was destroyed, so in the current infrastructure that is all that is left. Right now it's really no different than a rock group touring from city to city on tour to promote their latest album IMO. They have to go were the audience is going to be.

    Should Crown's pre-show have been a part of the show?

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    That's not Crown's philosophy. Crown cares about the show out on the field more than they care about what judges think of it. The goal is to entertain the audience and challenge the members as much as possible, and then do what you can to add to your score without losing the first two items.

    The whole show mattered to Crown (that includes the preshow), not just the judged part.

    I'll start off by saying I really love crown and their brass was absolutely magnificent. Their incredible sound effected me emotionally live and brought tears down my face by the sheer pureness and beauty. I can count on one had in the last 25 years that has happened to me as strikingly at that level of emotion at a drum corps show. :thumbup:

    That being said...I think that not caring about what the judges think is more rhetoric than anything else. If winning is not the goal that how will you ever win. Just let the cards fall where they may? I really don't think so in this regard.

    Who will blink first - G7 or S(sweet)16?

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Liahona

    Liahona.... this is where I believe they'll be a legal royal battle should any of the G-7 attempt to negotiate with show sponsors that do not follow estalished policies and procedures that membership in DCI requires of all Corps in such negotiations with show sponsors.. I'm not privy to what lattitude Corps have in these matters. I presume they would have SOME discretion, flexibility, opportunities to cut their own deal, but not to the extent that such negotiations would undercut DCI 's relationship, nor other Corps relationships, with show sponsors. Should any of the G-7 attempt to go outside or around what DCI believes is DCI's policies and procedures, I would imagine DCI would have their lawyers seek injunctive halt and relief to such possible illegalities in court.

    I agree....Although it would probably not be too hard for each of the 7 to host these 9 EXTRA shows of their own. One each plus just two extras one of which IS Murfreesboro. Don't they host shows already anyway? Being that I've never hosted a show myself, I guess what I don't really know is what's involved in terms of the contractual obligations and details, so my understanding is going to be extremely limited in this regard. Thanks for the input though.

    A: Competitive Inertia

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    OK, great. Staff's the same, design's the same, each corps has 100% retention.

    Now, what do we do when the corps are close? How do we make a decision?

    ANSWER: CI.

    Simple...the best corps wins...lol

    I get your point though...My opinion is that the judging system needs to be less subjective in this regard. I just don't have the power to change it.

    Alternatively, it seems on the surface that only a few corps have figured out the big secret on how to win a championship. I guarantee though if I bankrolled a "dream staff", they would win a championship in a short period of time(3 to 5 years). You are not going to convince me otherwise either. It's a lot about money.

    BD encore

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted · Edited by Liahona

    In the 4 finals I've attended, it was the smallest turnout I've seen. Maybe 2K.

    On the other hand, I'd say 15K stayed for Phantom in '08.

    It was packed for Phantom in 2008. It was as if the show was still going and no one wanted to let the moment die in just savoring their victory. :)

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