DantheOldMan

12 - Blue Devils 22 - Blue Stars 23 - Bluecoats 11 - Boston Crusaders 25 - Carolina Crown 03 - Colts 20 - Crossmen 32 - Madison Scouts (+) 07 - Mandarins 26 - Phantom Regiment (-) 07 - Pioneer 26 - Santa Clara Vanguard 22 - Troopers Credit Madison Scouts; Tick Phantom Regiment

Tom, We may pick on you but we never ignore you. Keep on talking on the thread, because you keep us honest!

Parents of Scouts Members. I picked up my wife at the airport yesterday as she flew in from Atlanta. She had been a volunteer with the Scouts for the past 3 weeks. You parents should all be commended. She could not say enough good things about your sons. They are fine young men and you should be proud of them. She could not speak about them without weeping, and she looks forward to seeing them at Finals. Your sons have grown so much as young men. Whether they make it into the top 12 or not, they have learned from this experience and have grown from it. The problem as a parent is that I want my son to be in the top 12, and so do you. However, there are parents of 19 other corps that want their sons (and daughters) to make it into the top 12. So, I applaud all the parents. We all share a common bond. I wish no one had to miss the top 12, but that is life. I hope the Scouts make it, but if they don’t they have acquitted themselves well. Whether I (as a biased parent) believe they deserve to be in the top 12 is irrelevant. I applaud all 20 corps, their members and their parents. Yes, and I applaud the judges. They have a tough job. I have been one of the most critical judge basher on this thread, but I know how hard a job it is to judge. Hopefully, when they judge, they realize that some parents’ children will not make the final 12 based on their scoring, so it must be a tough job. I applaud you Judges. Let’s all enjoy the last two weeks and relish in our sons’ accomplishments.

Linda, Don't forget our mantra -- don't bash other corps when it is perfectly fine to BASH THE JUDGES!!!!!!

Was this sarcasm or should I take that back?

See, I knew you were a fair-minded guy!!

What he said!!

I think the tie straigtening was merely due to the fact that they weren't wearing their ties and they weren't sure if they were practicing that part. As to that visual, I think it was added around the Dallas show. They were tweaking it all the time. At the Dallas show, I attended it live and there were no mess ups in tie tightening, or with the stick wave. Don't sweat the pratices!! It's when then miss it in the show that you can get concerned. These guys are doing fine!!

How do you find this stuff?!?

The crowd lovedl their show. I don't understand how they can be a crowd favorite, but not a favorite of the Judges. Listen again to the crowd reaction. It's great. Also, the crowd booed the scores when they announced Madison in 5th. The crowd can tell the difference. I think the boys from Madison did great. Question: Why do judges wear beards? Answer: Because they can't look themselves in the face in the mirror. GO SCOUTS!!!!!

You are totally missing my point. I can care less about GE. I know that the Scouts GE has been low. I have two questions you need to answer me so that I know that you are a fair-minded person. 1. When one judge scores a percussion line at 4th and another judge at 11th, is one judge wrong? 2. Did the Mandarins outplay the Scouts in percussion in San Antonio? Your reputation is on the line. We want to see some honesty. ( ) (sarcasm)

Tom, you have to agree with me on this fact. One judge got it wrong. No other explanation is acceptable. Whether it is the judge that placed them 4th, or the judge that placed them 11th. One judge was wrong. Now, without disrespecting the other corps, lets look at who judge #2 (and I will not use his name) said played better: Troopers (10th), Mandarins 9th, Colts 8th, Crossmen 7th, the Academy 6th, Pacific Crest 5th, Blue Stars 4th, Glassmen 3rd, Blue Knights 2nd, and Spirit 1st. Now, the corps that I have highlighted, IMHO, I do not believe that their percussion lines came anywhere as close to the Scouts percussion line at San Antonio. Feel free to watch all 12 shows on Fan Network. I have. I cannot believe that these percussion lines are anywhere near Scouts. I don't know what instrument you played, but I marched snare drum for 16 years, so I happen to know percussion. There is no way that Mandarins outplayed the Scouts. That relationship alone is inexcusable. So, don't look at scores, look at shows and look at relationships. If you can tell me honestly and with sincerity that you believe that the Mandarins outplayed the Scouts, I will shut up. If not, you can understand why I am so upset about the scoring. NO EXCUSE DCI. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

We're not saying that the judges should be comparing notes. The problem is relative position. How can one judge pick the Scouts' percussion line 4th out of 12 corps, and the other judge 11th? We assume that both judges saw all 12 corps. I am an old snare drummer myself, and I can usually pick relative position between percussion lines. So, relative to the other 11 corps, there is just no justifiable reason for the difference. That one judge kept the Scouts out of evening performance at San Antonio. I don't care what they were looking at, and why they came up with divergent scores. This is just flat wrong. Is this like the Olympics, and you have to just say "well, that was the Russian Judge, so what do you expect?" I expect better of DCI.

Not a difference of 7 places. I can see 4th and 6th place, but not 4th and 11th. There is no excuse for that kind of difference.

The Staff and the members of the corps may not care about the scores, but the parents of members do care. And the fans care. We are the ones who financially support DCI. Without out our money by attending competitions or joining fan network, or otherwise supporting DCI, there would be no DCI. "No bucks, no Buck Rogers." Parents and fans have every right to rant and complain about the scoring, and I don't care what any of you alums say to the contrary. Us parents have contributed financially big time for this investment for our kids, and we don't like the kind of sorry ### scoring we are seeing from the judges. If the judging seemed equitable, I wouldn't mind it. But I still have not heard a reasonable explanation why one judge in San Antonio can judge the percussion in 4th place and the other judge in 11th. That's not equitable, and there is no excuse for the difference. Not one of you have come up with a reasonable or fair explanation, and I challenge you to do so, because you can't. As long as my money is going into the DCI coffers, I have an absolute right to complain about scores!! 'Nuff said.

Yes, I am glad that they are going on last as well. At Dallas, they performed in the middle of the competition after sunset, and it makes a big difference when you don't have to perform under the sun, but can instead perform under the stadium lights. This should give them a boost, especially performing last. Plus, I understand that the crowd in Wichita Falls really liked their performance and was on their feet. I heard that they got the biggest ovation from the crowd. (But, that may be a biased reporter passing on information ). I head that the heat index in Arkansas yesterday was 110 or more. The staff wisely gave the guys a nap after lunch during the heat of the afternoon. I guess they got a good practice in last night under stadium lights. I'm looking forward to hearing the results. I have to bide my time until Toledo before I can see the show again, though.

I understand that percussion judge #2 was in the stands, while judge #1 was on the field. I guess that explains why the Scouts scores were so low early in the season, with all the judges in the stands. I've said it before and I will say it again: The judging system cries out for an overhaul. This is not just for the Scouts sake, but for the sake of all 12 corps who performed yesterday and had to fight for 4 spots in the evening show. Can anyone explain why 8 corps got byes? To me, that doesn't seem right. Everyone should be required to earn their way into the final show. There is no such thing as a free lunch!! I also disagree with seeding. Why should a corps get seeded based on what they did last year? That is like telling the Big 10 and the SEC that Ohio State and LSU don't have to play half of their games because they were in the championship last year. I think the other schools from the Big 10 and SEC would have something to say about it. Until there is equity in judging -- all the way up and down the line -- I will not stop voicing my opinion.

What? Please explain.

Anyone write the scores down? Madison was 5th so doesn't qualify for tonight. Sigh!! But, that means only one spot they need to improve for finals.

I am back from Dallas, and wanted to let you know what it looked like live. IMHO, I thought that the Scouts should have come in 4th. I finally saw the BD show live. It was a great show. I don't like the show personally (not my style), but it is very, very good. PR clearly was the second best corp. They have improved immensely since the Rockford, IL show. I didn't like their show then. I like it now. It was very, very good. They have made many changes and it is very good. (Still things I don't like about it, but that's better addressed for another day). As to SCV, this is the first time I saw them live this year. My impression live is the same as online: great drill but boring music. I still place them in third overall, because their drill was very impressive. But, I would honestly jump the Scouts over BK and X-Men. Personally, I think the Scouts got homered by X-Men. The announcer made a big deal about the fact that the X-Men were the only World Class corp from Texas. I thought their show was better than BK, but IMHO it was not better than the Scouts. Now, the Scouts had a ton of positive changes. The two or three places in the show where the trumpets wail were incredible!!! The crowd loved the show, and many of them were on their feet. Scouts got a lot of love in Dallas (which was at a beautiful HS stadium with artificial turf!) The stands were full. The company front was beautiful. The marching during the drum solo was great (many changes here and there). During the opener, the battery are playing off to the side, with their heads bowed and their hats facing the audience, while doing one legged moves (whatever the heck they are called) very nice look. Snares using shakers was a nice sound. Snares straighten their ties after their solo was a nice addition. The guard looked much improved. I still don't like the T-Shirts (I don't think they are unis -- I think they have T-Shirts under waist-high pants -- because some guys have tank tops and the larger guys have regular Ts.) But, the guard doesn't take their coats off as early. They unbutton them and leave them open -- a good look. The guard was supposed to have a place at the end of the second number (where the brass are in a box with the guard in the middle) where they toss the littliest guard member in the air. They didn't do that move in Dallas for some reason. They have improved leaps and bounds from Rockford and Madison shows. I think the judges are finally starting to give them some respect and some love -- still not as much as I believe they should, but of course I am biased. I don't think that the percussion line should have score lower than BK, but that is my opinion. I wish I could have stayed in Texas to see the San Antonio show today. Oh, well, at least that show is online.

While I was never a Madison Scout, I have always loved the corp, especially now that my son is a member. But, I agree that this show is what I would term a traditional Madison style show. I think it is a great show. I think Jeff and Dann and all the caption heads and on down the line should be proud of what they put on the field.

That is why I have been crying out for transparency!!! If that kind of comment was made public, it wouldn't stand up. Either the part was well written and well-executed, or it wasn't. I don't recall a spot on the scoring sheet for "style"! My kid is in the Madison snare line, and I was a snare drummer back in the paleolithic time period, so I know these kids can play. I am not suggesting they can outplay BD or SCV or PR or Cavies, but with the lineup last night they should have been a clear third. This is more evidence in my opinion of slotting!!

My wife whos is traveling with Madison as a cook implied to me that the Guard unis are changing. I don't know what that means, but we can all hope for silk shirts under the coats.

I don't get that. Is it because the show as not clean? Because their book is tough. These guys are playing tough parts. IMHO, they should be in third behind Cavies and SCV (based on Denver), but maybe they had an off night.

What about '88?