GUARDLING
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Posts posted by GUARDLING
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17 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Actually I was thinking bullying from a member. One of the allegations from the Spirit mess is sticking in my mind.
For those unaware, a Spirit member who had marched multiple years was accused of bullying. This person was going to march for Blue Devils until the allegation became public. Then quietly the person was no longer going to be in Blue Devils.Protecting members from other members is a piece that seems to be missing in these discussions. Hope to Hades DCI plans to cover it in their policy. If not then the members are not protected imo
There has been both. You are right in that aspect also. Even the sexual situation member agressiveness is not always thought of because many think " they are kids " they do and maybe more.
Again I will say , if management isn't aware of how staff, AS WELL AS MEMBERS behave, they aren't doing their jobs. Will someone always slip through the cracks.. yes!
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35 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Giving you a like for that info John 👍
And sure it’s a huge grey area when a corps has issues with a member, staff or volunteer that are not criminal acts. Off top of my head thinking non-sexual harassment (aka bullying). Would help if a bully could not just switch corps because no one in the new corps knows….
Teaching styles for most are quite known. Bullying can also be viewed quit diffrently in some cases. Was it actually bulling or a staff member being tuff. Is someone bullied or just doesn'tlike to be critized, I've seen both hundreds of times over the years.
Actual bulling or degrading is quite different and the corps management needs to be held accountable for their staff in all aspects. If management is not aware of all staff behaviors then they aren't good at their jobs and responsibilities. If management is the actual bully, then that's another issue.
As I said earlier, an accusation needs to be investigated not just assume, nor follow someone innocent. If all accusations on all subjects went into a data base I think few peoples names would be off that list.
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5 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
i have many times. i dont often jump to conclusions on some of the stories brought out. Most often i voice blame at the system that allows even the accusations to persist.
Often in today's world the accusation even without proof can do alot of lasting damage. Victims all around...sad
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4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
i was accused by a student many years ago. never touched the student. had to fight like hell to prove my innocence. but it was later discovered the student lied.
but i never broke rule #1
Which shows that all possible victims should be heard but only facts should condemn. Think about if social media was like it is now what might have been done to an innocent you.
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41 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
well Dude, based on stories still coming out...i wonder
Drum Corps always have stories and those who create them . Either way it's been 4 years as you say. I remember hearing they wouldn;t make it out the 1st year just to be welcomed and encouraged. Now as far as the rest of the community, I'll leave that to others to decide for themselves. Im sure there are lots of opinions and always those who do things to feed the flame throwers, with very good reason at times
PMed you🙂
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7 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
Sure it has, when many predicted this iconic corps could never survive, no one would join, parents wouldn't support, etc etc. Here they are😉 It shows A successful corps is bigger than any 1 person or any 1 opinion. FHNSAB
and yes I do know what you meant DUDE!...lol😝
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6 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:
IMO where I worked, part of what made it more diverse was start of anti-sexual harassment policy. Is anyone willing to argue that is being “woke”?
And I have no idea what “woke” means besides an insult without any explanation.
It's an over used word that many ( especially on cable news ) that got a memo saying " Here's your new word minions , now work it into everything you say "...ughhhhh...lol
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1 hour ago, craiga said:
I don't understand some of these comments. Is somebody actually accusing a particular corps of racism? Or is because there don't seem to be many African American corps members? If so, do we also assume the NHL is racist for the same reason? I've been around the activity more than 40 years, and I have never seen any hint of racism. Or does somebody think we should accuse the Mandarins of racism due to their preponderance of Asian members in the past? That would be just as ridiculous. Drum corps want to be competitively successful, and they will fill their memberships with the very best members they can, regardless of outside factors. As a matter if fact, I don't think I can name any activity which is and has been as inclusive as drum corps.
I think Drum corps is a very inclusive world for quite some time now. Others hopefully are weeded out or given an opportunity to learn and grow, Hopefully
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16 minutes ago, Year Fiver said:
Came here to say the same thing. I know of a WC corps where staff pay a few years ago worked out to $15/day... and those were the dedicated staff members who restructured as much of their personal lives as possible to be on tour as many continuous days as possible. Sure it's nice getting free food and shelter all summer, but those techs still have to cover costs back home like rent, student loans, and other bills while they were away. Even with staff actually getting paid nowadays instead of being volunteers, it's still a net financial deficit for them compared to what they could be getting off of tour.
A good tech is worth their weight in $$$$$$$ Beyond design they make it all work and look great. Never enough credit for them.
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3 hours ago, rmurrey74 said:
Wow, people complaining about staff pay. As someone teaching brass for over 15 years, I don’t know anyone doing this for the money. Most teaching staff get paid by the number of days they teach now instead of arbitrary amounts. Overall budget for my caption has grown very little in the past 15 years.
Large staffs are limited by the size of the vehicles. Yes, there’s more people on staff but still only 3-4 people on the road for our brass staff at a time. People rotate out more which is much healthier than people staying on for 80 days straight and getting burnt out. I made $37 a day last year and I know my peers in some of the other top corps are not much higher. I guess that’s the issue. Whoever is doing this for the money is making a bad life choice.
I don't think pointing things out or a reason has to mean complaining..Just pointing out the difference today . Cost is far more than just staff . If you are a caption head or a tech. If youre on the road 80 days or 7 doesnt compare to the $$$$$$ to just be on the road period. This is something un avoidable in todays world IMO . As pointed out, even dance programs for kids can cost thousands without, travel, food, lodging etc etc. Just a different world and very different times.
Decades ago corps had to sometimes get creative just to get to the next week ( and there were corps who didn't ) Today in that respect is no different, they just need to be more creative ALOT more to survive. Different times
You are right though about what can be burn out. It can be grueling to be out on tour after a while, especially with other commitments and that's just another example how different the activity and the world is today.
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2 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:
I hate using the phrase because it's so overused...........but model of Drum Corps we grew up with may no longer be "sustainable"
Yeah, so true.. Don't get me wrong I love todays drum corps. Although I have taught judged , directed through this all , personally I would have loved to perform in todays drum corps BUT you could be right.
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2 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:
I'm all for the improvements in health and safety that have occurred the past 50 years. That is something DCI has done right! The example of Mike Moxley was an extreme end of the pendulum. What I wonder now is if the pendulum has swung completely polar opposite, and needs to come back towards the middle to make Drum Corps more accessible to kids in terms to cost.
I get ya...totally I think accessibility , especially at a high level of the activity could be a thing of the past. Now corps have created programs to help some members BUT the pendulum would have to swing in alot more aspects in the world in general to make a significant change. Sad maybe but true I think. The shoe string many corps existed on is literally gone today
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4 minutes ago, craiga said:
Also, circling back to the tuition amounts and Labmaster's post about his daughter's dance camp....I agree. The hs I teach Marching at has a big jazz program, so as a result, we send dozens of kids to the Maine Jazz camp each summer. That's $1000 for one week, dorm housing, college food, no travel, a ONE performance at the end.
Also, I should note that the driver's ed course now costs nearly a grand....I paid $64 in 1976!
I remember a relative of mine spending thousands ( many years ago ) on their daughters dance classes ( no food or lodging ) to be a 5 year old dancing bumble bee ...lol...as years went on and they went into dance competitions the cost was un believable.
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2 minutes ago, craiga said:
I think a contributing factor to the raw staff numbers is the fact that most staff cannot be on the road for 10 or eleven weeks in a row, so while a corps may have 8 drill techs on their staff roster, they are probably scheduled so there are actually only 4 or 5 in front of the corps at any given time. Also, when I was Marching 40 years ago, we did not have a doctor, nurse, physical trainers, and professional chefs on tour. While there are plenty of volunteers always helping out, certain positions logically require paid professionals.
lol i was typing just about the same thing while you did..lol...All true
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59 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:
What percentage of a corps budget goes to paid staff? Whatever the number is could it be cut in half? Would anyone in the stands notice a difference? This is supposed to be a youth-centered activity for the youth, not paid staff.
Mike Moxley wrote and taught the drill for one of the Kingsmen's last Winter guards. He basically did it for just beer and gas money. And "the experience" those ladies had was, I'm sure, just as good as any top corps today.
Staff members BITD got money in alot of ways based off the popularity of their corps. Exactly how the band programs became more drum corps like and added to the merging and blurring of those lines to today. With that said , it is alot different today. Noone will devote what's needed to puit a corps on the field for gas money. Just like " free or minimal charge for a rehearsal facility , sending kids running across highways for Mc Donalds for a meal, school busses, broken down transportation, etc etc. Not just in design or talented staff ( a reason some icons are still involved ) there are professionals needed from medical drivers ( not someones dad driving with no restrictions ) etc etc,.
I have no issues forking out money for someone worth it , talented, devoted, there at all or most times BUT the amount of staff because it's not like that is quite alot
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3 hours ago, Tim K said:
I have wondered how many staff members are more well paid advisors and how much time some spend with the corps. I know in the past I have seen FB posts of instructors at summer vacation hotspots while the corps is touring many miles away. I’m not begrudging this since we all need time off and if an instructor has a family, being away most of the summer could be a problem. I also think listing tons of staff is something some corps do to look impressive. I have talked with parent volunteers who wonder what some staff members actually do.
It all comes down to specialization . At one time staff need to do it all for the most part. What we didn't know or what we may have been weak at we had to learn. We also needed to be present. We were lucky if we had an assistant to help clean.
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15 hours ago, Whiskey said:
Everyone wants to keep blaming props and electronics. It’s the insane amount some of these corps are paying designers and staff. Corps only have themselves to blame of what they evolved to. Let’s see if the pendulum shifts. Something has got to give.
I can agree....partially..I think it's not the amount that's paid to some staff , it's the amount of staff that corps have nowadays. In years past we had far fewer staff, staff that had to do more with less help than today and staff that had to manage and still put out a very high quality product. AND NO i'm not talking 100 years ago...lol
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Just now, Sutasaurus said:
Don’t wish him ill, just wish him away. Karma is an unkind mistress….just sayin’
and a Narcissistic and Sociopath thrive on attention, They crave it, live by it,will find every way to get it. They can't live without it. They don't care if it's negative or positive attention as long as it's attention. What they fear is the LACK OF ATTENTION. Want to get to them? Don't feed the beast.
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12 minutes ago, corps8294 said:
How in the h*ll did Magic manage to botch things up, again, after they reorganized and returned?
Over promised ( staff and members ) under delivered
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2 hours ago, ironlips said:
"They need to enhance their difficult routines to fit the music."
This has been my petty annoyance forever, but I have been informed by skating pros that it's not really a priority and doesn't enter into the score. (What? Haven't they got a G.E. caption?)
Some skaters actually did hit cues, and that was very effective. It's also very difficult in terms of time and space. You know, the old "Space/Time Continuum". Ergo, those who can do this should get higher scores, at least in that "caption".
I've often wondered if they even listen to their own music. I also agree some this year did at least hit some cues and was very effective.
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8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
Indeed but let’s be honest independent world runs the show when you look at representation at the may meetings
Very true , but it's also well known among World class where the bread and butter is. Many from that class also rely on those scholastic groups .
I remember a time ,and keep in mind, with many of the same in charge when they literallywere selling tickets to the lower classes to finals with 100% obstruction. Not in the way of seeing a bit BUT 100% so nothing could be seen and for ( if I remember correctly ), for like 10 bucks. I personally went to the office at the arena and spoke to the big guns so to speak and said these kids can''t see a thing ,nothing, and how wrong it was, well I was told at least they were in the arena and if they didn't like it there was several exits. That's an answer? Of course I was furious and keep in mind it didn't affect at the time kids I was teaching but #### if you're gonna let them in with not enough space at least let them in free or maybe a minimal.
Thankfully, at least the outward support for the lower teams has changed and I think many realized that their salaries and positions depend on ALL, especially, scholastic groups.. There's so many of them..lol.
WC will always have the loudest voice BUT I guess when you've been around since dirt and can remember a time when A class didn't even have a voice it's nice to see how the power in numbers and $$$$$$$ can make an impact or at very least demand respect, as they should.
DCI can learn! HMMMM being that DCI IS THE CORPS maybe it's just some people need to be willing to learn😉
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9 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
If WGI didn’t have the scholastic groups, they’d be in not nearly as good condition
and the Scholastic units from A to world learned how to leverage their importance years ago. THEY are the bread and butter of WGI
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Four years ago today the Drum Corps world exploded
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by GUARDLING
problem in DC today , especially WC is many if not most members technically aren't considered minors. OC maybe different for sure. Now, staff to member creepy, unethical, crossing a line? for sure BUT this is a thing that sometimes makes it difficult. Young staff members who actually are extremely close in age to most WC members blur's that line even more.
We tend to forget in talking about today's member ( especially WC) we aren't talking about minors. Young , yes, vulnerable, yes can be predator as well as victim, yes.
Personal opinion of mine is when the line gets blurred, lines get crossed and not just as far as a relationship, it blur's the ethical line between student and teacher which can also cause issues among members.