charlie1223
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Posts posted by charlie1223
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The Cadets' ballad is performed between 10 yardlines. Get it?
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PiLike Like them mylt
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Well how much knowledge are we talking about? Knowledge about every single corps show... definetly not many...
Knowledge of atleast the title of a production or music used in "A" performance... definetly most.
People who have already seen atleast 1 corps show live or through video... I'd say most aswell but not as many as those with 'some knowledge'.
This is definetly statistically accurate.
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My prediction:
#powerof11
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Not sure this is entirely legal in this thread, but I'm going to throw it out after having seen most of the Periscopes so far this pre-season....
... How much emotion can the design team pull from this program?
Granted... it can take multiple viewings for the goosebumps to show up on my arms, but I'm not sure I'm seeing how this idea will get to that point. What exactly is the 'power of ten'?
Let me be clear. This will no doubt be an technically proficient show. I'm just worried that other elements that figure into scoring might be lacking.
Or I may just need another gin and tonic.
I wondering if Shostakovich should have named his 10th symphony "The Anger in the Darkness" in order for you to feel emotion from it??
The Power of 10 can mean anything...
To me The show is about the Power of the 10 time world championship Cadets and that's about as much emotion as I'll ever need from a show ;)
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It does and has. I too work with synths. So where does that leave us?The timbre will never work. It does not work. Yes I do work with synths on the side.
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I love reading the give and take of differing opinions. I hate reading posts that tell people to shut up.
Well I don't like posts that twist people's words around so they can hate on something they didn't do or say. But that's always the lowest form of discussion on these forums...
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let me explain something about the synth. It is a detailed and ever evolving process to get synth balances and electronic balances at the levels that even the designs intended. It's not always a matter of "just lower it" when you are trying to consider certain sounds and timbres that fit with a constantly changing production. ("Oh the brass are cut from that now? Oh there are extra counts added for an electronic sample?") We have been fortunate to see so much raw daily footage from a top corps spring training... And Surprise! It's not perfect!
People need to understand they are critiquing something that most people aren't entirely familiar with... Spring training drum corps. It's unbalanced, unproduced, unfinished, un-everything. How can we expect that after 2 reps of a brand new ensemble chunk to have perfect synth/brass balance if this was their first ever run doing it together outside!? (Literally it is) Give the synth comments a break and appreciate the exposure and inside look very rarely seen ever before.
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Hops latest periscope is off the charts!!!
Don't let the numbers confuse you... This show is about Power
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Huh. Conservative choice. I was hoping for something more innovative. I'm sure they'll play the hell out of it though. I can tell this will be one of my favorite shows next year.
We can hope there is innovation in their somewhere...
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X... 10... pretty vanilla concept honestly but it will surely change into something that can have some kind of emotional/intellectual stimulation? Did they not learn from Side X Side about having an intellectual concept lacking emotional connection and meaning? do they have "X" on the brain? Seems also similar to "Second Chance" concept from Crown a couple years back. Sorry, guess I'm grouchy today! Music will be stellar!
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I think you're missing my points. Outside of DCP, my work involves education, families and youth activities in a religious setting, so I probably evaluate drum corps a bit differently. If you look at where most drum corps could be found until the 1970's, a very high percentage were from urban settings in industrial states. Many were formed to provide a healthy outlet for kids' energy and give them an opportunity to do something constructive. This was something good and positive. Today most of these areas do not have competitive marching bands. It is a more suburban activity, not necessarily affluent, but definitely suburban and in some cases rural, and in the states where marching bands rule, there were very few, if any drum corps. Speak with anyone who knows the history of drum corps and they'll probably agree with at least some if what I say and they'll agree that Florida, Texas, and Oklahoma where many excellent bands hail from were never drum corps havens and none of the best bands today hail from Revere, MA, Brooklyn, NY, or Bayonne, NJ.
Also if you take away the parents and educators who value music education out of the matching band equation, your forgetting the real movers and shakers of the school band programs. Speak with the BOA and YEA folks next summer in Indy and they'll agree with me. Yes many of the big names have drum corps backgrounds, but not the majority in all fifty states and since a good number have probably not seen a drum corps perform, they certainly don't see their efforts as merely replacing.
My purpose was to recognize the merits of both activities. Seeing marching bands as a "replacement" diminishes what they are accomplishing and diminishes what drum corps has contributed. Also replace in my opinion means putting something in place of something that previously existed, and in my collection of old photos I have a marching band dating back to 1908, long before Cadets, BAC, Madison, or Racine Scouts. Marching bands did exist before drum corps so they are not replacing anything, instead they are being given recognition.
Your perception on the values of drum corps/marching bands is very very twisted. There is nothing exclusive to a "marching band" that makes it a "suburban activity" and there is nothing about drum corps that makes it more valuable than marching band because it *was* mostly in "urban areas". Unless you think the mission statement and location of a marching unit decides if its drum corps/marching band? That's silly.
Right now we're arguing your perceived connotations of what a "Drum corps" and "marching band" are and what personal significance it means to you. That's fine, but in an objective reality the fall of local drum corps and the rise of local marching bands at schools is *not* a coincidence. Marching bands and drum corps have the same values, same motivations, same missions as ever. Would you be opposed if an inner city school district decided to start a marching band over a drum corps? You wouldn't be so stubborn as to deride the values of that organization over an inner city drum corps? You trying to make a distinction between corps vs. band is an appeasement to your personal experience but it doesn't shine true to what is the reality now.
Saying marching bands have "replaced" drum corps is not saying anything about what drum corps meant to you in the past or the values that drum corps has taught you and the good it has done to many kids. Its just a statement of fact about the current state of the marching arts.
And sorry for taking the thread hostage... IRS guy is crazy, won't take it seriously until the IRS does. :)
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There were always more marching bands in the United States than there were drum corps. Most marching bands are connected with school music programs and that was the case years ago. They did not compete until the later 70's and 80's, but kids in marching bands always outnumbered drum corps which is part of what gave a kid in drum corps pride--they were part of a special and select group. In the heyday of drum corps there was always a tension between school programs and drum corps. There was also a tension between school programs and the CYO bands that competed in the Boston area. High school programs feeding into drum corps was unheard of years ago, but that has changed over the years and since we wouldn't have drum corps without this change, it's a good thing.
I think it is somewhat a mistake to see the current competitive marching bands as a replacement for drum corps. For one thing, competitive marching bands are most often found in areas of the country that were not the hotbeds of the drum corps activity. I think the variety of sports programs as well as the ability to travel with certain teams, a wider variety of dance and drama programs, and more cost effective youth activities outside of school are more significant factors. Better school music programs may be a factor, but keep in mind most drum corps of the glory days were not founded to teach music, they were started to give kids something to do, especially in the pre-DCI days.
I would love to see circuit days again, drum corps that are not very good but have heart and involve kids of a range of abilities, but for that to happen we probably have to do away with soccer, hip hop dancing, and the local theater group. These activities are probably where the kids who would have been in drum corps can be found. If we think that eliminating music from schools would help drum corps, which would be wrong on so many levels, think again. We've seen school boards eliminate music programs all across the country, but they have not been replaced with drum corps in the community.
Competitive marching bands ARE a replacement for drum corps. You will find marching bands in places with local drum corps and without. Drum Corps started out with "giving kids something to do" except now there is literally a million things kids can do. Drum Corps is marching band and if you value kids doing something, working hard, competing in circuits, marching in parades then you should be very happy that highschool marching band has replaced small regional drum corps! If you aren't than maybe you need to reevaluate the reasons you think drum corps is "better" than highschool marching band. More kids are involved in the marching arts than ever before that's a fact for sure why does it matter if the unit is called a marching band or drum corps?! Makes no difference.
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Donald Gratwood, another crazy in that group, thinks that there aren't any drum corps that are inclusive to all children reguardless of skill or financial status.... Hey Donald! It's called high school marching band now and there are more marching bands in America than there ever were drum corps!
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I don't think when people say a show is "old and hokey" they are actually talking about the physical age of the music used.
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I don't think you understand the point. It's not the programs or music that's played, but how the program is designed, how much demand, how much props are relied upon to generate "GE" (whatever that means these days).
This sentence from another post sums up how much simulated (demand, sound, drill, recordings) is ascendant today:
"Staging trumps drill every time. WGI style > Brass theater style > DCI drill. The simulacrum wins. It's cleaner and easier to judge. It fits what the sheets ask of it."
It's similar to the judging of olympic figure skating. Imagine if a quad jump that has a wobble on the landing were given less points than a "well-staged" perfectly clean triple toe loop.
What's getting rewarded these days is cleverly risk-managed sleight-of-hand "demand". It makes me feel fooled, patronized, manipulated, not awed and inspired like I used to feel watching DCI.
You can't have a thesis like "DCI and the triumph of the Simulacrum" and then say that huge parts of DCI are also not a part of it. You cannot take the most important parts of DCI like music selection and program choices and ignore them and then say that DCI as a whole embraces the simulacrum. That like saying "yeah they are playing big band jazz music but don't you see how perfectly staged the trumpets are!? Simulacrum apologists!!"
You can't simply say that because DCI uses electronics and cares about "staging" that it suddenly is a part of the Simulacrum. Is staging and electronics such Hallmarks of the simulacrum that everything that utilizes these things is suddenly inferior to things not in simulacrum?
Look if you want to say championship shows don't have as much demanding drill as they used to you can say that. If you want to say that "where" things take place on the field is more important that "how" they happen that's fine too. And you can say that electronics do not have a place in modern drum corps... whatever! But why wrap this all around some convoluted philosophical idea?! Can we just call a spade a spade please?!
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A lot of the electronics mania generated by a simulated pitch bend this year reminds me of the idea that "live" DJs are "performing", when at best, they're manipulating the Simulacrum.
Much in our culture no longer discriminates between true performers and manipulators of sounds, or the Real and Simulated, though, so I'm sure my opinion is invalid and that I'm a cultural invalid.
Have Grammy-award winning rappers like Eminem or Weird Al...
(who deserves a whole topic on his own here, the guy who satirizes the triumph and fakery of the Simulacrum in pop culture, like Stewart or Colbert in their areas (remember "truthiness"?), and the endless possibilities that satire could bring to DCI, which we've sadly lost with the death of VK and Bridgemen, and DCI by glorifying the Simulacrum has become so much HEAVIER and sickeningly EARNEST, even self-righteous, in the last unsatirical decade as they desperately try to manipulate the Simulacrum to add simulated profundity to show GE just as they try to add profundity to baselines, scrambling to balance out the Simulacrum with Seriousness and Meaning, and thus jumping the shark with tasteless desperation in design all too often),
...achieved the same level of mastery as musicians and performers as a pianist or violinist? Many in the young generation would say yes. And they'd say that piano and violin music are boring and irrelevant.
My god! A show using "experimental orchestral" music is so Similacrum! A show about Presidents and using 60 year old music is so Similacrum! A show about a ballet using music from a ballet is so Similacrum! A show about an Italian film director using Jazz and Big Band charts is so Similacrum! Scheherazade? More like Sheherazacrum!
I mean, the only "Simulacrum" thing I see here is your cynical judgement of an activity that brings a new direction and change every year. I actually cannot even think of an activity that is more removed from the "Similacrum" as DCI is.
Piano playing?? People have been playing piano for centuries! Violin? Maybe that bach violin concerto can be performed for the 9,000,000th time just to show that we are not part of the Simulacrum!
Performing intricate drill/movement with wind instruments, percussion and color guard? I think we're coming in at almost 90 years... but really at the level it is now... no more than 40? If having "electronic effects" suddenly makes this activity heavily and sickeningly glorify the Simulacrum than you would be hard pressed to find anything that doesn't... making this whole thesis pretty pointless.
DCI =/= Simulacrum
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This is a moot point, as there is no way a brass line could play anything comparable unless they were all on trombones. And even if that were the case, the crowd reaction would be "so what, that is what trombones do."
80 trombones doing a pinch bend though??? hmm...
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Hey, you brought it up. Make all the presumptuous proclamations of electronic acceptance you want, but I am sorry - choosing the easy button in preference to using brass/percussion is, by definition, diminishing the talent of the corps by choosing not to utilize said talent.
Your victory speech will be just fine with that one line omitted.
Diminishing the talent of the corps?! Your are insane. That is a dumb opinion to have.
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Note: Crown did not build a brass program overnight. Should the same be expected of a percussion staff?
Tell that to Blue Knights. Drum placement from 12th to 6th (beating Crown) in a single year with a new drum staff.
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It's not like The Cadets haven't come from behind to beat somebody at Finals.
Didn't they do that in 1993?
And who cares, really? The Cadets have 10 gold medals and countless Bronzes and Silvers.
How many do the Bluecoats have? After last night, they now have 1 Bronze and 1 Silver.
It's nice to see an "underdog" corps get medals. It was nice to see Crown get their first Gold. Was awesome to see 'Coats get their 1st silver.
The cheering for the BCoats for the silver had nothing to do with Cadets getting 3rd, that was incidental and we all know it.
And who does George Hopkins think he is, "preparing" his kids for the possibility of a "disappointing" bronze? A lot of corps would kill for the chance at a medal.
Good grief, GH. For crying out loud, if you really thought you could win with that show, then maybe you need to start thinking about shuffling up your design team to get some fresh ideas. Your show design this year was, sorry to say, a little stale. But if you really cared about the activity itself and everything ELSE that goes with it, you wouldn't have been crying a river over it.
Just like the Blue Devils' drum major "we came into this season with one goal in mind". Well of course you did. I said it before, Blue Devils care about winning, everything else is second to that, and now I'm beginning to think the same of The Cadets.
At least Bluecoats' staff put out a show that they knew we would love. They know a medal is never a guarantee, and that show was a RISKY show to do. Thankfully it was enough for the judges.
I'll close by advising all corps to count their blessings.
These arguments are annoying. Everything is relative! I'm sure Colts thought it was disappointing to be in 13th even though many corps wish they had the opportunity to compete to make Finals.
Yes, Third is disappointing when you're hoping for Second. It's a logical human emotion to feel dissapointment. What do we expect, that you wouldn't feel even a little bit of disappointment? This activity thrives on competition and winning is a great, positive and healthy goal to have! You make competition seem like such a dirty thing and the emotions we have with it just as vile. Get over it! Corps don't have a "priority" list of things that are important. They care about a lot of things all at the same time and there is no POINT in you trying to dumb it down to a single thing. Do corps always have to be humble 100% of the time and pretend that scores don't matter?! C'mon, you're just being unnecessarily critical just to blast Cadets.
We're all humans with complicated emotions so I don't see ANYTHING wrong with what George wrote or how he wrote it.
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Not at all. Last year when Crown won, BD didn't wine about it, they were over with Crown celebrating with them and congratulating them, even if most of the cheering was geared towards Crown. If any group is a class act, I have to say it is BD. They are out there applauding their peers, not storming out as soon as they can.
I just want to comment to make sure you feel overwhelmed with negativity. Shame on you for your assumptions and exaggerations about The Cadets and the way they humbly stand still and march out of the stadium. If you knew anything about drum corps you would know how WRONG your perceptions on the Cadets actions actually are.
Some corps like to mingle and others chose to remain disciplined. And ALL corps show a great deal of class when they do either.
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There is no 80 year legacy of the Cadets vacating the field after the champion is crowned. It's just a matter of them wanting to write their own definition of sportsmanship. I am OK with that, but at least admit as much.
Where was that implied? I didn't think George was speaking for the whole history of the Cadets but his version and the one he sustains and created for decades.
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Tough rap for The Cadets tonight... Twitter is all abuzz with this pic and they get trumped by Coats.
Please Respect Private Videos
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by charlie1223
If the alumni or corps REALLY didn't want videos to spread they shouldnt have put them on Facebook. Blame goes to the people who posted the private video not those that shared it. It's just irresponsible to expect that videos like that won't be shared because they are "private". That doesn't mean anything on the Internet.