karuna
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Posts posted by karuna
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3 minutes ago, trumpetcam said:
This why its so hard to compare scores. BLOO got an 87.5 tonight, but were over a full point above Crown last night. We wont know where Crown really fits again until Houston and SA. The music side is definitely up there to compete at the top. Gotta get the visual and effect scores up.
Feedback from quality judges is more valuable than scores. Recap pseudoscience is entertaining but not really valuable.
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31 minutes ago, wilme861 said:
I'm actually not that worried about dropping down. Yeah it could happen but Crown is by far the dirtiest group in the top 6, especially on the visual side of things. Can they catch up to one of the Blue groups once they clean up, yeah it's definitely possible. I'm not counting on it happening but don't count them out just yet. The changes in the ballad made a huge difference for me for that part of the show so who knows what else is up their sleeve.
I think they can clean the dirt. Where that gets them is unknown but I suspect they will be in the medals at the end. Their challenge will be enhancing part 2 to create a stronger visual connection with their design intent. IF they pull THAT off, who knows what may happen.
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2 minutes ago, Cappybara said:
Nah all millennials are narcissistic don’t you get it?
Right?
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2 minutes ago, George Dixon said:
I'm glad they are there too. AND they are being rude. Do you realize we are talking about squeelling and screaming (way over the top) for EVERY catch. In no way are we referring to normal "cheering" or getting excited once or twice and calling out.
Being rude assumes they KNOW they’re violating good audience behavior. They probably don’t. Teach those young fans don’t castigate them.
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8 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:
Scream away. I’m not saying anything here about it anymore. I’ll just get up and leave,
I was going to apologize for using "old fart" but after reading this maybe I won't.
Those screamers aren't being rude -- they just don't know any better. You can teach them or you can "give them the stank eye and walk out".
Personally I love it that kids who've never seen drum corps are going to shows!
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1 minute ago, George Dixon said:
oh ok, you've convinced me!
And yes, been to WGI contest for decades
WGI contests <> WGI Finals. It's a whole new level of screaming when there are that many guard kids in an audience. You just learn to embrace it. DCI is different because the performers are making the music -- not a recording. If they realized it's not about annoying the old farts but respecting the performers on the field, they'll totally be down with that, dude!
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15 minutes ago, George Dixon said:
Maybe we are splitting hairs here. I stand for all the corps as well. Frankly to stretch but also to recognize all the hard work that goes into it - no matter the "competitive success" etc...
However - the SCREAMING at each rifle catch is inane. That's what folks seem to be complaining about here - it is very narcissistic and not at all about the performer. Frankly its about garnering attention for one's self. Just like selfies, sitting on a guys shoulders at a concert, or acting overly "moved" by a performance, falling around and wailing at the theater etc - it is a lesson in modern narcissism and not at all good manners. It's rude. But hey - it's usually kids so I try to give them a pass unless it gets out of control.
It's not narcissistic at all -- it's a genuine form of encouragment to the guard. I get that it annoys people (especially if the screamers are directly behind you) but don't project your feelings on to the kids who are just honestly cheering them on. If you've been to Dayton for guard championships, you'd get it. (And it is nothing new. It's been happening in gyms for a very long time. it's just new to guard outdoors! ). Teach them that drum corps is not winterguard. They're smart -- they'll get it (and probably still squeal at big catches once in a while!)
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1 hour ago, ftwdrummer said:
Pre-San Antonio, it's arranged based on previous year's placement, drawn in groups of three, and Music City is default first because they're new to World Class.
I don't think they jumble up groups of 3 at non-regionals.
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54 minutes ago, GiveMeLibertyorGiveMeDebt said:
Same!! I'm bringing some buddies who have yet to witness the majesty of DCI live.
I hope Crown blows their hair back.
Yeah that's not gonna be a problem
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1 hour ago, DasTuba said:
Even if Crown doesn't medal this year, I love this show! I believe they're headed in the right direction with the changes they've made so far. I know brass has an off night, I'm certain Matt Harloff will take care of that as he always does.
But let's talk about this percussion! Wow! Even if they don't medal, how great would it be if Crown took home the Sanford?!
Don't give up on the medals quite yet. As the recaps from St Louis show, it's a different world when (a) everyone is at one show (b) "Indy" panels instead local panels. They are also behind BD,SCV, and esp Bloo in the clean game. Assuming you have the staff and members able to do the hard work, that's not a bad thing. Finally -- they have some challenges design-wise still to overcome. Small changes can make big impacts from here to the end.
As for the percussion -- yeah they are EN FUEGO!
Some folks keep projecting them sixth. Beast keeps saying' "uh-uh -- not happening".
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2 minutes ago, Flguardman said:
Matt is going to be on that hornline hard these next few weeks. They’ve had quite a few weak nights this season.
It’s a very brutal brass book. It will get there
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1 minute ago, Cappybara said:
It would be quite odd to see Crown win the Sanford but potentially get 3rd in brass!
Big tear in brass tonight. Albert Lo does not forgive.
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15 minutes ago, MusicManNJ said:
Crown takes Drums, Brass, Overall music. Visual gap has closed. Still some work to do on the GE number but tonight may have set up credit for tomorrow.
Only .35 back in visual. That gap will be completely closed soon. Won the content subcap of VP. Slowly but surely !
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46 minutes ago, Hrothgar15 said:
They really need to tie the back half of the show (after the ballad) together musically, somehow. Right now it’s percussion, a short piece, percussion, a park and blow, percussion, and a short closer. There’s no cohesion at all and it shows.
Have you listened to the recent video on Flo with Hannum, Klesch and Subel? It is an interesting discussion about some of the choices they are intentionally making.
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1 hour ago, Box5Opinion said:
My prediction
1. The Bluecoats (GE, MUSIC)
2. Crown (Brass, Percussion)
3. Boston Crusaders
4. Blue Devils (Visual)
5. Cavaliers (Guard)
6. The Cadets
Bold. But I like it :-)
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1 hour ago, TigerBaritone19 said:
I've seen it live a few times and that brass is something else, and the drums are phenomenal this year. The thing that is really holding them back, as you alluded to, is how clean they are. They need to clean up the drill, especially in the closer and the end of the opener right before the ballad, and I think they will see a significant score boost
Since Ron Hardin and team arrived in Fort Mill, they have had no trouble getting clean. Not really worried about that.
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interestingly enough flo has just published a video with Crown's designers.
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32 minutes ago, ndrudy2013 said:
It's definitetly possible. Let's see where Crown places on Sunday. I would say as well that there are no bad corps in the top 6, just some have a slightly better "Show Design"
Percussion and Brass will compete for winning their captions. That usually brings along the MA caption. Crown has also been very good finishing in the VP and VA captions; they know how to get clean! If you put that all together it becomes IMO pretty unlikely that Crown falls to 6th. Also -- there are DCI HOF designers on staff. They know how to respond to judge commentary.
Many fans of other corps are (with obvious and understandable motives) ready to count Crown out. That may be less than wise to do.
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21 hours ago, Cappybara said:
Sure. Keep in mind these are my opinions, no need to get riled up over them, and remember, you asked for them, this was not unsolicited.
.......<cut for size>
I can't comment on the technical aspects of the orchestration. Their brass and percussion are scoring fantastically, I trust the judge's assessment on that. It's a talented corps, but there's a lot that I feel like the design team needs to flesh out better and little time to do so.
Not sure you really answered the question about "inadequate". Honestly that word choice seems more of an insult than design term. But..whatever.
Most of your commentary seems to center around a few themes:
First, you don't think the production fits your expectation of a show title "Beast". This is completely fair. I agree that it's not clear at all what Crown is going for (and that's entirely their fault). I believe you're off-track when you're trying to find a story or plot. I don't think it's there at all. In my view this is an abstract show about the nature of the beast (maybe even the "beast" nature inside each of us). I have no doubt the judges have a clear understanding of the designers intent. But the designers have a duty to take the audience on the journey - not just the judges. This same criticiism can be leveled at many DCI shows (eg. the BD show is incomprehensible if you're not aware of the painting. Once you have that knowledge its all makes far more sense).
Now to the details you mentioned:
The bone yard. Not sure where anyone is picking up teeth or claws. Those comments seem deliberately obscure. I saw it and thought bones. When you see lots of bones lying around, somethings been doing a lot killing.
Appropriateness of music. Well I think you're applying your beast story to the music and it's not fitting. OTOH the question of "why does this piece of music" is a perfectly valid question that Crown leaves unanswered. Certainly there is plenty of powerful, aggressive music but how does its take us on a journey through the show? The ballad shows a tender side to the beast aspect and certainly suggests that nature of beast is not entirely about strength and aggression. And while the ending has a sense of conclusion, not being able to say what that conclusion is certainly can leave you wanting.
Reliance on the horn line. Well I have to admit this made me laugh. Last year we heard from you and many others: "Why make that wonderful horn line a backup band for the vocalist?" Now we hear "Oh you're featuring the horn line too much". Make up your mind! As for the brass being the only section featured, I'd disagree. This is as percussion-heavy a show as Crown has ever done. And the guard is frequently the center of attention.
The beast prop. I disagree that it's treated as an obstacle. It's just there like any other "flat" you'd see in a show. While constantly pushing props around the field is a choice, so is just putting a picture on the field. Crowns production relies far more on drill and staging than rolling props around ; the props just set the atmosphere. If you haven't seen the show before, do you wonder what the nessie prop is? Does it's purpose create a sense of intrigue? Are you surprised when it becomes active? Certainly once you've seen it, it's no mystery. Being able to put that aside and react on the merits is why judges get paid the big bucks.
I think you missed a few things like color palette and costuming. The guard is really well integrated but their costuming doesn't give them a great deal of contrast with the brass/battery; they get a bit lost. The overall picture is just a little too busy. The dangles under the arms of the brass are really creepy -- they look like another set of arms. But they don't help with form clarity or individual marching. Given that dark, busy stage the flag designs also sometimes just get lost. We'll see what happens here. It's not like flags are so expensive you can't ditch them and reload.
Just to summarize, your main point seems to be "I don't get it". I think every single Crown fan is right with you; we don't quite get it yet either. But -- as fans -- we're hoping things become clearer as they season progresses. Look at what just adding a little girl did to Ink; things suddenly crystallized. Of course there's also the technical strength of the performers and the program to consider. We'll see what happens. As fans we're working like to crazy to see the glass half-full!
But thanks for taking the time to actually respond. Your long response was far better than your "inadequate" quip. Perhaps finding a happy medium might lead to better discussions in the future.
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On 7/10/2018 at 7:28 PM, Cappybara said:
Theyre saying that the design is inadequate, where there are inconsistencies, and making predictions on placement
What exactly does inadequate mean in terms of construction, orchestration , pacing, unity etc... ? Please explain what your comment means in terms of actual design criteria.
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REALLY Nice to see such a great panel in Valdosta last night. I'm sure it was a refreshing change to hear Jeff Prosperie on drums , Chester Phillips on brass, etc.. after some of the unique personalities who judged some recent contests.
Hopefully the tapes and discussion in critique will lead to a lot of growth as Crown moves on to Western Carolina for some rehearsal / clinic days.
Up next after that: DCI N Kentucky on Saturday with the Bluecoats and then DCI MidWest on Sunday with Coats and Devils!
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18 hours ago, Cappybara said:
Theyre saying that the design is inadequate, where there are inconsistencies, and making predictions on placement
What exactly does inadequate mean in terms of construction, orchestration , pacing, unity ? Please explain what your comment means in terms of actual design criteria.
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Olathe, KS - July 16, 2018
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted