bmjfelts1988

Nope! That had nothing to do with it. We did it with a whole different focus on where our pulse came from. We got our pulse from WATCHING the conductor (i.e. "drum major"). That was our focus at all times. Now days? I don't even know why we have drum majors. We should just do away with them completely. We don't use them for any musical purpose anymore. I've even been to rehearsals where kids are told NOT to watch the DM but instead "watch someone's feet". I've also been to rehearsals where drum majors were told to follow the battery. That os so BACKWARDS from what we are taught in standard music education and is also the reason why you hardly ever hear a good NATURAL "rit" or "accel" anymore. Those have to be controlled by the conductor. But intead, the conductor is controlled by the battery. It's the tail wagging the dog. Again, why do we even have drum majors anymore? And holy crap most corps have 3 or 4 now!!!!!!!! Why? We had 1 maybe 2 in the 80s and we actually USED THEM!! Backwards!!! Oh I have. and I do. The rest of your rant would suggest that you don't pay very close attention. Buddy controlled the tempo - and it breathed. Which is why the band swung so hard And yet, they are known for being precise to the point of almost being too perfect (exactly what you're railing against). Again, bad example. His playing with his band was some of the least musical playing Buddy ever did. Told you I was going to hurt some feelings. But understand, I don't mean all battery percussionists. There are some phenominal musicians in the battery percussion world who's approach has always been different than most others. Thurston? Float? Where are you? (just to name two of many) There you go again. "different than most". That's an insinuation that battery percussionists, in general, are not musicians. Otherwise, why would there be exceptions that you single out? Oh but they are far more connected than you think. Given that I teach/have taught in both circuits, I know exactly how connected they are. You're going to need to be more explicit if you want to draw some kind of sinister connection. Who are these "non-musicians" who are in charge? Last time I checked, the caption heads of drum corps are the ones running rehearsals and designing the shows. If you think they are unmusical, you're going to have to explain to me how all of these guys "aren't musicians". You know, guys who teach music at major universities and play in the top ensembles in the country. There are exceptions for sure - and I always enjoy those exceptions. But there isn't enough - and nowhere near as much as they used to be. I miss BALLADS......when tempo was allowed to fluctuate. Now days, it's against the rules to "rit". Lots of pulse in today's drum corps music, but where is the heart? Again, tempo fluctuation does not equal music. Expression is what makes things musical. Tempo is a way to do that, and there are plenty of shows that have those fluctuations built in. There are a lot of other ways to create music, and those are all explored pretty extensively in modern drum corps. I'm sorry that it doesn't fit your mold from the 80s, but just because you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't mean its not there. The rest of this I'm not even going to entertain because I don't feel like repeating myself.

How did we do it in the 80s? Does anybody remember? I do. I'll wait to see if anyone answers... Oh I have. and I do. Buddy controlled the tempo - and it breathed. Which is why the band swung so hard Told you I was going to hurt some feelings. But understand, I don't mean all battery percussionists. There are some phenominal musicians in the battery percussion world who's approach has always been different than most others. Thurston? Float? Where are you? (just to name two of many) Oh but they are far more connected than you think. There are exceptions for sure - and I always enjoy those exceptions. But there isn't enough - and nowhere near as much as they used to be. I miss BALLADS......when tempo was allowed to fluctuate. Now days, it's against the rules to "rit". Lots of pulse in today's drum corps music, but where is the heart?

edit double post

Alright alright alright. I finally got the answer I was looking for ("because they rehearse that way") and you definitely caught me.....I'm making a mountain out of a mohill......deliberately. Not to be a troll but to make a point far bigger than "using a met at a first exhibition performance of the season". What is that point? Follow along with me. And WARNING: I'm probably going to hurt a few feelings along the way. We hear purists gripe every single day about the "modern drum corps activity" with all of it's electronics, trombones, Bb horns yadda yadda yadda. But I honestly couldn't give a dried cat crap about ANY of that. I think the drum corps activity has a bigger problem - MUSICALITY (or lack there of). To the people who answered "because they rehearse with a Dr. Beat" and the further answered my next comment "then rehearse different" (paraphrased) with "because that's how drum corps have done it for the last 20 years". I will now respond with.......THAT'S THE PROBLEM! When I hear today's top drum corps, I hear top calibre talent, unmatched technical skills, rhythmic accuracy that's second to none and tone quality that is far more pure than ANYTHING that this activity ever heard in it's previous decades. But what drives me crazy (far more than "trombones" or any of that other crap) is that it's just too mechanical sounding (much like a lot of today's professional music...which I commented on in a different thread today and will comment more on in this thread later). When you listen to the Buddy Rich Big band back in the day or even many of our top orchestras, there are TIMES when tempos are not 100% consistent but that is the ebb and flow that allows the music to BREATHE. Drum corps over 20 years ago USED to play that way and honestly, it was much more musical from an emotional standpoint than what corps do musically today. And CROSSMEN were one of THE BEST at it (even to being nicknamed "the unstoppable groove machine"). But now, it HAS to be "160BPM" (or whatever the marking is) and we "ABSOLUTELY CANNOT STRAY FROM IT" *beating hand against the table as we say the words in those quotes* So now for the part that will hurt a few feelings. It doesn't surprise me that we've gone this direction because the activity is not being lead by "musicians". Don't get me wrong. There ARE excellent musicians in the staffs and design teams of the activity. But they are no longer in charge. The WGI people are in charge. It's all battery percussionists and guard people running the show. Forget "instrumentation, amps....whatever"......I want to go back to playing "music".....not "notes and rhythms executed with 100% perfection to the loss of it's LIFE". Yes, you're right. For 20 years we've heald to a "standard" in our rehearsal technique that involves mechanical naziism. It's time to change that standard.....because I want to hear some music for once. And yes, it's no different in the real world of music. And for the same type of reasons. The music industry is no longer being lead by "musicians". It's being lead by sound engineers and producers who went into those fields because they were not good enough to succeed in their original craft. (told you I was going to hurt some feelings).

Then rehearse that way.

Again, why not have the backfield drum major count off instead - with a dr. beat that is not audible to the audience.

The drum corps activity is doing nothing more than mirror the modern professional entertainment business. Look at today's pop music. It's all programmed, hyper produced and far less organic than it once was. Look at "horn parts" in today's music. Some say the don't exist and they are correct - but oh yes they DO exist. They are just programmed instead of produced by using real horns. So as an artist, you are faced with two choices. To be nostalgic and create music that is not as artificially produced using real horns etc. and not make much (if any) money but have a great time doing it. Or, get with the times and play the "modern game" in hopes that you just might have a "shot". But you generally cannot do both (with a few exceptions of course....Harrt Connic, Brian Setzer, Michael Buble....but even THEY have to play the game with a few modern "radio tracks" each album to stay afloat). It's just how it is, and there is no going back if you want to be successful. Drum corps - no different. You can go nostalfic (and be much more organic) but you won't be very successful and might find your corps more suitable in DCA (though even that circuit is playing "the game" more now). It's just how it is. You may not like it, but no matter how hard you try, no matter how hard you protest - you will never stop the "progression". It's a lost cause - and a whole lot of wasted time and energy to even try.

Still don't understand why they couldn't just have the backfield conductor count off instead of using a met. The DM could have even done so with a met only audible to him.

Ever cross your mind that adding trombones/all brass have probably prolonged the entrance of woodwinds into the activity? Think about it, the shortest time frame we've ever had between major hornline instrumentation overhauls was 10 years (3 valved G horns to Bb/any key marching bell fronts...1990-2000). It took us 14 years from then to get to this one. 12 years to go from two valves to three. Change takes time to adjust to. What makes you think it will be any shorter of an interval between all brass to woodwinds? Oh don't get me wrong....woodwinds WILL come. But I think all brass has pushed it back quite a distance in the future at this point.

Then have the backfield drum major count it off. Again, much less obnoxious - far more professional.

History repeats itself and for Spirit (which is who I think you are referring to), seemingly about once every 10 years. Long streak of finals placements from the late 70s to late 80s, barely slipped out of finals for a year in 89 , came back in for a year then were out for 12 years. Made it back in for 2002, fell out for a year in 04 but got back in for a few more years 05-07 then fell out again for another several years and returned again in 2011............fffffffffor a few more years then appear to be slipping out again in 2014. Nothing new to see here....

Okay first of all, I absolutely LOVVVVEEEEE your show and have ALWAYS been a big Crossmen fan (notice my signature banner). I do have one question for you. I realize this video was a first performance... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWqbGqlMpUM ...but if you need to use a Dr. Beat to establish tempo at the beginning of the show, why not just use an old fashioned vocal drum major count off instead? I realize vocal count offs are something that have become taboo in modern drum corps (for whatever reason, I'll never know....I mean...professional groups do it...maybe not orchestras but jazz, rock...anything commercialized, vocal count offs are normal)....I digress....even if it's considered "taboo"....it is FARRRRR less obnoxious to hear a DM count off for early season comfort than it is for a Dr. Beat. To me, the Dr. Beat just seemed......well.......to put it blunt.....laaaaame! Let your drum major give a count off instead, please and ditch that stupid horrific sound that we all hate anyway. Believe me, no matter how old school a DM count off might seem to the modernists out there, it would be far more professional than that stupid met sound.

I agree.

Yeah, I thought about that after I made that comment. One of those "wait, why did I say that" moments. I stand corrected on that. In any case, we'll see what happens in the coming days. It's going to be an interesting season for sure. A competitive season. I don't think anybody is going to have anything handed to them. Perhaps that's the real point I've tried to make from the beginning. Last year, the writing was clearly on the wall. It was Crown's year from the word go. This year, it's anyone's game. Should be interesting. And with that said........."enough".....as one person posted on a meme. At least for me. If anyone wants to carry on the discussion, knock yourself out. Even I'm burned out by it now.

Fair enough.

I would not have counted (in any way) the "high brass only moments" (especially since it counts for 40 of their 76 brass...making it more than half the line) nor would I count soloist/small ensemble moments. I didn't count such moments in Crown, either (or I would have had much more). Either brass players are playing or they are not.But of course, some will shout "victory" now. That's fine. Back to the original point...."am I the only one who liked Crown's line better last year?" Answer: no. Actually, forget that even! Earlier I posted a link to last night's recap showing how Crown's content/rep numbers are where they are losing to Cadets - which generally leads one to think they are "outperforming their book" (though I'm not specifically saying that is absolutely the case). Not ONE person even attempted to address that post and it was in fact where the thread began to get real quiet for a while. Any takers?

See? I'm not alone. :shrug: Oh well.

Meh, you didn't exactly contribute much to the discussion anyway. Just a typical troll. Not if I see you first. (har har hardy har har )

Sure, despite the fact that I did say I was "not alone" in my opinion - as others have indeed backed me up on my points earlier in the thread, I have at the very least stood alone for the last several hours of this debate......and I'm still standing (reminds me of a Elton John/Bernie Topin song....in case anyone is still unsure of my "age"). Not only am I still standing, but I'm having a great day, enjoying life, smiling a lot...as I said before, I'm fine, thanks. (someone finally got their wish to make this thread about me. And we wonder why everyone in the activity makes fun of DCP.)

Well maybe if people would get what I'm saying the first time, I wouldn't have to repeat myself (gosh I feel like I'm talking to my kids now). When someone directs an entire post at me that concludes with an insinuation that I'm trying to refute how great both Crown and Blue Devils hornlines are, I'm sort of moved at that point to repeat what the person obviously didn't catch the first 24 times I said it. That's not my fault, it's theirs for not paying closer attention to what I'm saying or for just deliberately having selective hearing (there I go talking to my kids again....maybe I am talking to a bunch of 12 year olds....sheesh).

I think Troopers can and will make finals this year.

I'm fine. I don't need your help. I'm a big boy (and a very good debater ). Just trying to enjoy a little bit of drum corps discussion. That is why DCP exists, right?I realize a lot of people probably don't like some of what I'm saying (especially when I post a recap that supports my points) and would thus, like to see this thread die. But if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I have my opinion, am entited to DISCUSS my opinion on this forum as much as I want and for as long as I want. Don't like it? Find another thread to follow. At LEAST.....I'm trying to keep things civil (unlike others such as the gas can troll above).

What are you 12?

Boy you're just determined to turn this into a pissing match, aren't you? "Backpeddling"? Not from me. I've been clear from the beginning where I stand in all this and have not wavered once. But keep pissing. At least you will be amusing yourself.

Without a doubt, a fantastic arranger!