13strokeroll
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Posts posted by 13strokeroll
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When you watch a show, and you get e=mc2 announced to you, and then you see the focus going to two characters you think are in love but aren't sure....yeah you get confused because where does love come into Einsteins theories as they are fed to you in school? It's a topic you hate and try to stay awake during :tongue:/>/>
That's coming from an 18 year old watching Crown who didn't know the source material.
or better from a 68 year old..."Enstein was a science math/nerd. Who'd think women would want him?"
two qoutes said in my living room watching finals
Unless you consider his treatment of his ex wife and his "incestuous" relationship with his cousin are considered to be just as much of his legacy as relativity, space time, and peace activism. No historical discussion is complete without them to describe how his clock ticked. More relevance to the EOTB creators.
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I actually, I think BD captured the absolute motif of dada perfectly - "I'm so much smarter than you are that I could put a pile of crap in front of you and you'll love me for it." Coincidentally, dada imploded because they took this notion to the extreme to the point that they snobbed themselves away from having an audience. The difference between 2012 and 2013, IMO? Despite having just as much of an avant garde flavor, 2013 seemed far more audience-inclusive. The avant is punctuated by the accessible. 2012 did not have that effect.
That said, even though not a fan of BD's 2012 program, after watching some of the complexity of the drill and the nuance of their brass, I would be at best petty if I didn't include them in the top 3 conversation.
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Reading a few comments i have to ask. So its ok to have to look up information about the show (poem and music) to understand it but when BD does a show about Dada and people have to look it up its a terrible show? I swear all last year people said they dont want to research and look up a show to get it but now Crown did the same thing its fine and dandy? My opinion i didnt get the show and didnt care for it. I liked SCV the most in the top 5 wish that it won.
I actually, I think BD captured the absolute motif of dada perfectly - "I'm so much smarter than you are that I could put a pile of crap in front of you and you'll love me for it." Coincidentally, dada imploded because they took this notion to the extreme to the point that they snobbed themselves away from having an audience. The difference between 2012 and 2013, IMO? Despite having just as much of an avant garde flavor, 2013 seemed far more audience-inclusive. The avant is punctuated by the accessible. 2012 did not have that effect.
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Counting: My quick search found that apparently the counting is supposed to be "...an interpretation as a reference to the mathematical and scientific breakthroughs made by Einstein himself." And I'm sorry but as someone majoring in math education and dating a physicist, that just rubs me the wrong way. YES, Einstein was a genius. YES, he shaped modern physics. However, more modern physics is finding that he may be completely wrong. I protest that such beautiful achievements be referenced by counting over and over again to the number 8. Yes, I know that musically 8 is convenient to count to. But I mean come on. The equation is squared, and 8 is a cube. To me, that's like drawing a line and saying it exists in 2 dimensional space. It's just silly.
Poem: Couldn't find the name, someone help?
Actually, science isn't proving him wrong, simply that his theories don't translate to the subatomic level. No one has been able to disprove him. As far as the content of the show, Also Sprach is critical. Zarathustra taught essentially that man moves in cycles of revelation in a path to further enlightenment. When that enlightenment is reached, the next revelation presents itself. Neitzche took that thought and ran with it. The show describes how Einstein was able to make sense of apparent disorder. The park bench takes this order and implies there is yet a further revelation, impossible you say? As difficult to digest as it might seem, the narration is critical to the development.
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I know International Class has seen a little bit of action over the past few years; but, what is DCI's actual presence in Europe and Asia? I know the UK, Belgium, and the Netherlands do have a respectable corps presence; but little of that seems to translate into the 2nd week in August, presumably due to the cost of transport and travel to the US. However, would a larger DCI presence overseas create increased interest and funding to make more trips possible? Since consensus will probably never exist about the next direction to draw new audiences, perhaps the next ready-made niche already exists and is simply untapped. It is always more desireable to tap an existing market than it is to fabricate a new one. It is easier to sell to existing customers than create new ones.
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You think that playing an NCAA sport qualifies to the requirements I listed (which I added to your message) ? Not to mention the whole argument that many NCAA athletes actually *do* go to their school of choice on a scholarship and so don't pay anything at all to participate. In fact they're being compensated with free tuition to the school. Many who actually PAY their tuition successfully graduate with a degree (in which case the fees they paid were for their education and NOT to participate in a college sport.)
Sorry -- try again :-)
You should know -- this thread has re-occurred at least twice in the past several years. Never -- not once -- has anyone successfully argued Brasso's point (principally because drum corps is just not even vaguely analogous to a sport. I know on the surface it seems like it is -- but lift the covers and you rapidly see that it's not).
Sorry to rain on your parade, but hockey and soccer set me back a good 5 grand a season. Scholastic programs were free, but to be competitive to MAKE the scholastic team required a season long commitment of play at beaucoup bucks in other leagues outside of the scholastic season. Don't like it? Don't play. To participate at a competetive level,one had to accept those terms unconditionally. Talk about no control whatsoever. Teams were set up by geography and left no room whatsoever to try "free agency." I think this scenario fits your challenge. I suspect, with today's fiscal climate, we're going to see this is more and more of the norm.
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Still 2008, but boy did this year make it a difficult choice.
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Agreed about the place filler. The implied and inferred revelation theme associated with Sprach underscores how the one theme transcends the perceived absolutes of the other capped with the visual of the crown. That stuff is too complex yet tidy to be a coincidence.
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That's also a good point. How many of them hand out audition details, contact numbers, etc, for people they are cutting. I'm guessing they simply do not care.
I would say, from experience, that it isn't entirely true that they do not recruit them. I am personally aware of some famous names in the drum corps world talking up players from some corps to come out for them in the fall. Some even talking to members who are still in uniform at Championships.
People want to stay if they prize loyalty above glory seeking. Of the people I've known that wanted to climb the ladder, some were looking for a better experience, some were looking for better instruction, but most were glory seeking for a championship. Let's not pretend it's more than that.
Very inclined to agree. Top corps uncategorically recruit. I've seen it on multiple occasions, must frequently from staff members working their "day jobs" with students they have from September to June.
Also, loyalty is a very important issue to the middling corps. Most of these groups have a fair number that find the loyalty to their corps supercedes all; however, I've noted approximately 25% are looking forward to moving up next season. Also, staff members at top groups at unsuccessful auditions will strongly recommend auditioning at less strenuous corps, often personally contacting friends at that group, with the strong recommendation to get some seasoning and come back next season.
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How about the BCS? Allows everyone an equal shot at the top? I know we shouldn't compare DCI to sports, but in this case it's kind of apt. The BCS schools are the ones who always have a consistent shot at the title every year, in comparison to the top DCI corps who always have a strong shot at the title. Call it this way: Alabama=BD, Florida=The Cadets, Ohio State=The Cavaliers, Oregon=Crown, Stanford=SCV. Go into any football season, and you'll see the same basic names at the top of the predictions and the early rankings. Same with DCI. Every year, the predictions say one of the above corps will win, and stats bear this out. Yes, a corps like Bluecoats(Boise State/NIU) can sneak in and crash the party, but it's not a permanent move.
So yes, there are some systems where every technically has an equal shot at the title, but DCI is not one of them. PC or Colts aren't going to come out one year on fire and smoke everyone on the field, and 2 point the Blue Devils because they had a good show Finals night. Just not realistic. Nothing at all against those two corps, they're just two that came to mind. While in the NCAA Basketball world, you see an underdog appear every few years, (Butler, Wichita State, etc.) But how many of those schools end up winning, compared to the normal power schools of Duke, UNC, Florida, UCONN, Kentucky?
DCI isn't a monopoly situation, it's just that the best rise to the top. I highly doubt anyone would want to knock down the top corps just to make the bottom corps seem better. Not every corps is equal, or attracts equal talent or staff. This is a competition, and the corps that has the best design and best talent will invariably win. That's just how competition works. No use leveling the field in the name of fair play if it removes that competitive aspect. We'd just end up with Animal Farm, "All corps are equal, but some are more equal than others."
Better analogy is La Liga. Everything the league has is designed to serve Barcelona and Real Madrid, both undeniably among the international elite. The end result: the league is billions in debt, viewership is on a double digit decline, merchandising outside of Barca is non existent, and speculation is the league won't survive the decade. Invest, invest, invest, invest.
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Not because they choose to audition. It would be because they are actually marching with them. There is a competitive and financial advantage gained from being able to replenish your ranks with veterans from other corps. I personally know people who ended up marching with top corps, such as Cadets, Cavaliers, etc, who would not have been able to get in there without the seasoning they received at another corps. Those corps received a benefit from the other corps, perhaps while they were arguing that those lower corps should get less money and even be bumped from performing at the same show with them. I'd like to see them give something back for effectively being a feeder corps.
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We experienced sort of a balanced approach. Coming from a semis level band, DCI selection was celebrated, top-notch visiting corps were routinely hosted which the entire band would assist and observe, corps staff were present at clinics for critique, local shows and/or Big Loud Live were an organized event, etc. But, active auditioning was not actively encouraged until later in the HS career. It was a very sound approach to give the young marcher significant seasoning to become fully aware of what they were getting themselves into.
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There's no question that drum corps is a game (the only aspect of that "Summer Music Games" marketing that they got right, IMO). All sports are games, but not all games are sports. Drum corps falls into the latter category.
Sure, drum corps performers display athletic prowess on occasion, but not in a sports-like way. It's no different than watching "So You Think You Can Dance". That show has dancers that display, at times, athletic skill. It's made up of choreographed performances. It's even judged subjectively. Is it a sport? No.
Neither are gymnastics or figure skating, and yet here we are. Perception supersedes reality.
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First don't put words in my mouth. I never said the moniker was not intended to evoke sports. I said it was a MARKETING slogan not a literal description of the activity.
As for why...
Because when marketing an unfamiliar product to a new audience, you attempt to link your widget to a high quality product they ARE familiar with. Do I really need to explain the marketing value of using "Major League" in the slogan?
Just as Major League baseball players are the very best at what they do, so too "Major League" marching musicians in the DCI are the best at what they do. The fact the the relationship hinges on that single fact (and that DCI and MLB share virtually nothing else in common) proves that this is commercial language.I have no idea what possessed the decision makers at DCI choose ESPN. Perhaps they saw all the ridiculous "sports" with which the network filled their air time. Perhaps someone's brother's cousin's in-law worked for the network. Perhaps they thought ESPNs target demographic aligned with DCI's. No freaking idea. And pretty clearly a bad one in hindsight. Huge investment with tiny returns.
Nevertheless the point remains: it's a MARKETING slogan not a literal descriptor.
Correction: excellent conception poorly conceived.
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DCI marketed itself to ESPN. Not to Bravo. Nor to Ovation TV. Not to A & E. Espn is a sports station. Its where we watch athletes in competition, and sports teams in competition. Were you around then ?
DCI invested in a televised segment prepared and broadcasted to the world on comparing the heartbeat of a marcher to that of an athlete. They hooked up a drummer with wires to monitor his heartrate at a typical practice run of the program.. They compared the result to an athlete in a competitive sport.
Steve Rondinaro had a written script delivered to the audience about how these DCI performers are ( quote ) " like finely tuned athletes '. He utilized all manner of sports phrases, all manner of favorable comparisons to athetes and athletic teams. He still does this on air... presumably with DCI's blessing. They brought former basketball coach Bob Knight on to be interviewed. Former QB Steve Young to be interviwed at DCI Championships. In the recent past, the broadcast has been chock full of subtle ( and not so subtle ) comparisons to sports and athletes and athletic competition. The notion that DCI has not willingly compared itself, and on occasion margeted itself as akin to youth sports, and athletes, flys in the face of reality of what they have actually done in their most recent past re. marketing, branding. The moniker of " Marching Music's MAJOR LEAGUES " was selected by DCI along the same timeline that they were marketing themselves to ESPN. Anyone that thinks that the " Major Leagues " branding portion for the marketing wasn't selected for its sports athlete connection has to believe that it was all just a collosal coincidence.
All very true; however, I think most lose the precise distinction between athletics and sport.
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DCI is less the NFL than it is the Premier League - an open-ended confederation that's incredibly weighted toward the upper end.
DCI and the member corps could absolutely create viable NFL-style profit-sharing and equitable payments if they chose to, but it would require a sea change in thinking about the organization. It would require a static collection of stable business interests - with members knowing where their next meal is coming from, so to speak. And with stable finances, competitive balance is increased as the poor don't automatically get poorer...
Actually, the NFL model is more aligned to the G-7 than DCI, when you think about it. Competitive balance - 6 of the 7 G-7 corps have won a title in the last 15 years. Stable financials...
Mike
Perhaps they should choose an MLS model. If you're so sure about the Premier League, does that mean Crown's going to pull a Leeds and tumble into Open Class - over invest in a championship only to lose sustainability to the point they virtually cease to exist? I think the better analogy is La Liga, where outside Barca and Madrid, there's little left to speak of and the league is on the verge of collapse due to placing all of their eggs in the single "they're the best of the best and deserve the most" to the point of the collective leveraging itself to the eyeballs and the league invariably shrinks, all suffer, and eventually all shrink into oblivion. The comparison is almost too eerie to be true.
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You said:
To me, that implies that as long as a corps has the money, it doesn't matter the talent or work ethic of the kids. And props are not synonymous with a championship.
2013 - no props
2012 - horses
2011 - no props
2010 - mirrors
2009 - chairs
2008 - no props
2007 - no props
2006 - no props
2005 - a door
2004 - no props
2003 - no props
2002 - no props
Sort of, except 2008 had a few small props - the pilum (spear) defined the hubbub around the whole program (of course aided by Spartacus' smarmy sneer).
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Spending caps won't do anything at all to stem the loss of Corps if, unlike every other competitive sport in the world, we do not address some level of transfer rules. Its the big elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about it. Most tell us they don't want any reasonable and sensible transfer rules put in place. None at all. Ok, I get that. If theres little to no support for this, then thats that. But absent that, we're all just kidding ourselves here if we believe that the Cadevaliers won't continue to win over 85% of the DCI Titles the next 30 years just as they have for the last 30 years. A cap won't do much of anything at all, imo, to stem the loss of Corps either. But if DCI decides to try it ( doubt they would ), I 'd be ok with trying it. Whats to lose, when we're already losing more Corps than we're adding, and have now for 3 decades.
Although I support the concept of parity through reduced "free agency", I believe it remains the elephant in the room not because there are those that refuse to consider it, but rather the logistics of pulling it off are untenable. The basic fact that would ever undermine the prospect is that the members are actually a contingent of the paying customer - through fees, travel, training, etc - and that most are constricted by their own financial parameters. Even a whiz-bang snare from Idaho with limited resources will only have a small list of viable corps, despite the potential to play in the top 3. As much as we all would like to see him/her achieve their pinnacle, their financial reality severely diminishes the possibility.
Also, even though the NFL doesn't fit the cap model argument cleanly, ownership meets in a collective to decide what is best for the group as a sum of its parts rather than sole individual needs, although that of course plays into the equation. Thus, small market teams such as Green Bay and Pittsburgh are given the green light to broach more creative methods to succeed comparably to the "big boys". In a true dog eat dog environment, they would have both faded away 40 yrs ago. As it currently stands, they've got how many championships between them? Those two small market teams the country wouldn't normally give a hill of beans of consideration generates billions in revenue in merchandising, branding, cross-related advertising, etc which all organizations get a share. This is because the owners have realized that the health of even the smallest has bearing upon even the greatest and manages their affairs to preserve this and help it grow. Imagine if the current perennial 14-18 level corps had that same benefit. Jersey Surf, with their very creative approach to merchandising last year as 2015 World Champions?
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Sorry for taking the topic somewhat astray, but I think some of my comments are relevant. We have to stand up to stupidity and not allow the shallow thinkers to control us.
On that tack, no matter how badly I want to see the cream of the crop at one show in Buffalo, or any show at that stadium - I live a fair distance away from the border, so deciding to go to A show (which is about what I get to do each year) is a pretty strong commitment on time and expense - I will not be going next year.
I will not be cheated out of my money in this manner again and I will not subject myself to intrusive examination for frivolous reasons.
When it gets corrected, I'll be back.
As an aside, I go to the DCA championships, which last year, and this, was at the Navy-Marine Memorial Stadium, a part of U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. Never been searched or questioned, only made to feel welcome. There's a lesson in there somewhere I think.
I really wanted to see Cadets drum line, so I'm a bit p----d.
Regards,
John
If the Glassmen hit the ground running next season, I suggest their show in Toledo, it's got to be roughly the same distance for you. I'm finding I'm getting better enjoyment out of the 10-16 corps anyway.
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I got there early enough to have absolutely no problem. The people that had problems came later than me. I too was next to the tunnel, and heard some irate fans, but I thought the same thing...they should have got there earlier.
Go back a few years ago to the Rose Bowl if you really want to squawk. Those lines went on forever and the tunnels were long and packed with people.
DA
I think 45 minutes early qualifies as reasonably timely.
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only one gate open, two turnstiles operating, yeah it was fubar.
It's totally unacceptable, don't care which way the fingers are pointing, in a mexican standoff everybody loses.
I heard they built Ralph Wilson Stadium with more than one gate, someone should have mentioned it to the lessor and lessee.
Staff at the gate were not unpleasant, I was one of the last in (arrived mid afternoon) and the staff could have been really stressed by then so congrats to them for holding it together. MANAGEMENT ON ALL SIDES ARE TOTALLY TO BLAME FOR CHEATING ME OUT MY TICKET MONEY. Didn't mean to have all caps on, but it does look kinda nice.
Thankfully Phantom, SCV, etc. erased the bad taste I was carrying.
Someone has to bring some sanity to all this 'security' crap. No one is blowing up any stadium in Buffalo for any reason, certainly not a drum corps show. I get the sense that each jurisdiction has to out perform every other in new ways to inconvenience everyone else with their 'gotta be safe' nightmare inducing schemes.
Oh, it took 10 minutes to cross the border, all lanes open and hundreds of cars lined up. they're doing something right.
Regards,
John
Nicely said, even if you're on the wrong side of the Blue Water. Wink.
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I wonder if the problems the OP discussed is what kept the Buffalo event from successfully returning to the DCI calendar until this season after a couple of abortive attempts in the last couple of years.
This is just an assumption, but I believe so. Aside from the VERY agitated cadets families, the remainder were very naive about drum corps. Just think of all that future revenue lost!
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Arriving at 6:45 for a 7ish show is not very prudent on your part and being physical with ushers is not very cool either. You are lucky you didn't get ejected from the entire event...
Read again - anthem at 7:30. Parking and gates are sufficient to cover 80000 in 15 min.
Ohio State University
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted · Edited by 13strokeroll
What's the most common phrase heard from a Ohio State graduate? Would you like fries with that...
Indiana, our Indiana, Indiana we're all for you. IU!! (With a small Go Blue on the side...)