[What would you think if...]

5 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Again, you're being willfully obtuse. 

Yes, that's exactly what happens, depending on the venue, the group, and the rep that they are playing. 

Have you even been to hear the NYPhil or MetOpera, live in their houses?

[What would you think if...]

On 8/8/2019 at 1:31 PM, ShortAndFast said:

Professional orchestras and opera companies hire sound engineers. Full stop.

https://nyphil.org/about-us/artists/lawrence-rock

Your Google skills are marvelous.  Your reading comprehension skills, however, need improvement.

• The NYPhil engineer handles RECORDINGS and BROADCASTS and "live audio" on tours (i.e.  remember those outdoor concerts in the park already discussed).   
• The Chicago engineer is RECORDING the concerts.
• The MetOpera is engineering "broadcasts for radio, movie theater screenings"

They are NOT manipulating sound then feeding it to the audience in the hall.

 

 

[What would you think if...]

11 minutes ago, Fred Windish said:

Millions of high school and college students dream of starring at a rock concert . . . . . as soon as they experience their first live, in-person, music spectacular. That whole experience. No longer do they aspire to join the American Legion or VFW. What's happening now is the lure.

 

 

Not only is that a huge, sweeping generalization, it's one which I do not feel is correct.   Please remember that the VAST majority of DCI members all got their start in high school marching band.  DCI is just a natural progression.  And I don't think anyone here is going to say that they are joining their high school marching band because it is a "rock star" experience.   Playing in front of a bunch of parents, friends and alumni is not a rock-star audience.  Even at finals, the lower half of DCI gets a marginal crowd at best. Just because members continue to sign up does NOT mean they love all this crap that is being foisted on them by designers.

I can out you in touch with at least one member ...

[What would you think if...]

36 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

The only main difference would be instrumental (symphony, opera, ballet, etc) music performed in concert hall. Though there, the room itself has been specially engineered to accomplish the same task, and even THEN amplification and equalization is becoming more prevalent, especially with the rise of the electroacoustic medium. 

You already provided them - instrumental music.   And notice that orchestras unhappy with the way their sound is heard choose to alter the music hall - not their music.  They don't hire a sound engineer to process their music.   And guess what else - a lot of their halls STILL aren't great despite attempted fixes (much like a rotten show design, alterations can only polish the turd so much) - but they play there anyway, and WITHOUT sound engineers.   [I'm mentioning this because you might not be aware, since you pass on all music composed prior to 1945] [see - there's that snark again ... I guess I can "do better"].

And as to your last comment, please - let me know which quality orchestras/opera companies are using amplification and equalization within their normal venues during their normal programming (I'm not talking some special Pops Concert).  I'm very curious to know.

 

[What would you think if...]

14 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

What are you talking about?  I like it loud, I like it soft.  But I mostly like it done well... and I like to hear it when it is.

What words are you trying to put in my mouth?

I believe you (possibly someone else) referenced a rehearsal comment to the mellos to not worry about volume because the mixer will handle that.  So, if on Friday night in Alabama the mellos perform  perfectly, at mp, and the mixer boosts their level all the way to the judges box, the judges might increase their score from 19.7 to 19.9 in Brass thanks to those marvelous mellos.   The next night, the mellos continue to perform excellently, but at mp not realizing that a fuse just blew on the mixer, and no one in the stadium hears it.  Under that scenario, on the night the lights went out in Georgia their Brass score SHOULD only be a 19.7 (all other things being equal). 

But does that actually happen?  It's not a "tic" penalty ... they just lacked the additive moment to boost their score from 19.7 to 19.9, but it seams that judges tend to not start at 0 on any given night and add to that, but instead start at the previous night's score (i.e. 19.9), even though they won't subtract from that when one of the great elements goes missing.

[What would you think if...]

Just now, Old Corps Guy said:

You must be a sound engineer!   I stand corrected and should give props back to the sound engineers as well in the studio.

No, not me ... just snarking again on the previous "every music is sound engineered these days" trope.

[What would you think if...]

3 minutes ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Pre-recorded tracks were done in studios, most likely by professional musicians over the minimum age in this activity, that did several takes before they locked down every aspect of the track. 

which tracks were professionally balanced by sound engineers in the studio ... can't forget THAT part!

[The Cadets 2019]

11 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:

It was kind of painful.

Especially at around 0:32

[What would you think if...]

[What would you think if...]

7 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

But you provided an excellent reduction to absurdity. 

Well, I was really just going for snark.  I'll have to work on that.

[What would you think if...]

2 minutes ago, Glenn426 said:

The argument here being that DCI was charging professional level money but putting out an amateur product.. 

 

The argument here being that all of music during human civilization was lame (especially anything written before 1945) until sound engineers came along to deliver it to our ears in its scientifically-proven best  presentation.

Did I summarize that correctly?

[What would you think if...]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

let's be honest....for the last 10 years, with all of the rules changes and hand wringing and drum corps is dying BS spewed on here....attendance is going up. 

I'd be a lot more comfortable accepting that blanket statement if DCI provided attendance figures for all shows, not just Finals.  

[What would you think if...]

11 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

I, personally, can't stand collegiate marching bands.  Can't stand them one bit.  It's not about the numbers.

Neither can my son.  6 years in DCI, but he won't set foot near his college band.  I don't blame him one bit.

[What would you think if...]

7 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

Then we have nothing to talk about on this topic.  You just gave up the 'farm'!

I'm glad that you don't believe that Crown is made better by their use of electronics.

Not at all, as you are imputing to me an argument that was not mine.

My argument has always been that they sound better without the electronics/amplification, hence the comment that they sound better during encores.

[What would you think if...]

1 minute ago, cfirwin3 said:

When these groups play their extra encore material... Do they suddenly sound like junk?  Nope.  Indeed they do not.

Indeed they do not.  

They sound better.

[The Cadets 2019]

48 minutes ago, hughesmr said:

More grist for the DCP mill:

https://marchingartseducation.com/cadets-2019-design-staff-interview/

45 minutes about "design" and they barely mentioned music at all. 

[What would you think if...]

Which is why you have 24 trumpets outside instead of 2-6 inside.

[What would you think if...]

3 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:

Then don't go to any live music performances, ever. Amplification for reinforcement and balance is ubiquitous across all genres and venues, with very limited exceptions. 

Yeah.  Such as symphonies and opera, which are the live music performances I prefer.  But thank you for telling me how to live my life, when its DCI that is changing its tune, not my preferences which remain the same.

[What would you think if...]

1 minute ago, cfirwin3 said:

Those kids that are playing beautifully under mic, can certainly meet you where you are at (I promise). 

But ... are ALL the players being mic'ed?   Or just the stars (beyond the issue of solos)?   That is I think one of the questions a lot of the others have here, beyond the issues that I have.

What I believe some here are concerned at is that the wonderful ability of the most talented players is being amplified, while other player are being relegated to the aural background.

Again - in my case, that concern is secondary to the simple desire to hear acoustic instruments acoustically.  

[What would you think if...]

4 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

 When they are using amplification, it is for reasons other than making some sort of point that they can (and do) easily make without it.  It's about taking an unnatural environment and facing... and making it sound natural to the audience (the identical motivation to the same use in the symphony orchestra in similar venues).

But that's just it ... I don't go to a live drum corps show in a stadium atmosphere to listen to musicians play virtuoso scales at mp as if they're in a practice room., just blasted loud through a speaker.  This activity has always been an outdoor activity and represented a balance of musicality with projection.  That's what I go there for.  If I want to hear the most musicality a group of instrumentalists can provide, I'll take a pass on a bunch of 20 year olds and go straight to the concert hall or buy a recording.   

That's my biggest issue.  I want to hear what these young musicians can do - by themselves - in an outdoor environment, with all its difficulties.  THAT is Drum & Bugle Corps ... at least for me.  YMMV.

[The Cadets 2019]

On 8/5/2019 at 3:57 PM, Eleran said:

No matter what happens (who stays, who leaves of their own volition, who is asked to leave) ... since in a week everyone's attention will quickly revert to real life, let me say before then:

• Every one of the Cadets staff was trying to bring success to the Cadets in 2019, and for that they deserve our thanks;
• Special Commendations to: ...

Of course, I knew I'd neglect to name a few special names who also deserved recognition for their unsung, unheralded and often unthanked roles:

• Justin Moore, JP Castro and Jose Wilker Augusto for terrific Administration work (and taking the time to say hello to an old fart who dropped in to see his son)
• All of the volunteers who fed, drove and otherwise tended to the safety and well-being of our members, including our own @Fan of the Arts who also provided a valuable daily blog for all

[What would you think if...]

6 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

It's good to agree... even on the small things.

Did you march (not necessarily drumcorps if you didn't) but in any field band group?  Could be HS, anything that fits the model.  And it doesn't matter the instrument, although it's easier to discuss if you are a wind player rather than percussion.

2 years mello; 2 years DM.  Didn't have/make the opportunity for DCI

[What would you think if...]

Just now, cfirwin3 said:

And last time I checked, football fields were made for football.

I'll give you that much.

But that's about as far as I can agree with you.

[What would you think if...]

4 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said:

Football fields are not natural settings for brass ensembles of any size.  Especially ones with soloists

That's simply not true at all.  Trumpets (bugles) were originally outdoor instruments, for crying outloud!

Giving an ensemble 76+ brass was the answer to having them play outside on a football field.   With all that you are advocating, there is no need for more than 1 brass player per part.  I guess the other 60 spots can go to colorguard and dancers then, and just let the 16 or so brass players sit on the sideline with microphones.

[The Cadets 2019]

Exactly.