MikeRapp
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Posts posted by MikeRapp
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I'd love to hear crown do 2015 Blue Knights.
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The relative amount of chatter on DCP is in NO WAY a reflection of the amount of fan support a corps seeks and/or enjoys. I think we may have just a slightly inflated view of our self worth on here. Just sayin'
Dan
Well it certainly isn't the only reflection, or even the best reflection, but it is a pretty direct, measurable reflection of fan support. I think George is pretty open about why he does it, and it is only to intrigue the fans and get them talking about the show concept. He is a pretty savvy guy, I suspect he knows it can only help interest in the corps.
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It's all about philosophy. The Cadets and Bluecoats always are among the first to announce, and they do so because they want to promote the season with fans as early as possible. Others take the opposite approach, wanting the element of surprise to carry momentum into the season.
I am sure some corps leaders do not want to show their hand until the last possible moment for competitive reasons. Blue devils are often among the last to announce their show concept and music, no doubt because they want to keep it as quiet as possible. I guess they don't feel they need fan support, and it seems to reflect in the relatively little amount of chatter here about their shows as compared to their stature. Compare that to the incredible amount of talk about Cadets and Bluecoats here.
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Some give the impression that long time staff is a negative. Hmmmm..sounds quite stable and smart to me. There isn't a corps out there that wouldn't love to have long time staffers like this. It's a goal of most but only a few can achieve. It takes alot to obtain a well oiled machine that actually works.
It also takes a competitive compensation package. I'd say odds are pretty darned good that the leaders at BD and Cadets are paid better than those at almost any other corps.
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I agree with you. It seems BD has become more of a Theatre Troupe with the musicians moving (I know I will get blasted for this) but it has one them gold the past 2 years. Crown did something similar this season with a focal guard member telling a story and they got silver.
Is this a trend now? Probably too early to tell but if a corps wins 2016 with an "acting" production it might be hard to deny.
I personally find the musical innovations/technicality of Bluecoats and Vanguard to be more exciting. Just my opinion.
I love what BD does. No one out-plays them. It's not as if they are cheating musicianship to get theatrics. But they are winning because of how they design and execute guard, and you cannot just go out and do what they do with first and second year talent that has no professional training.
It is exciting to see so many other corps try to compete with different and unique approaches. It's fun to watch these shows evolve over the season. There is no question BD is pushing competition forward across the board. Just want to see some other approaches rewarded.
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Blue Devils had a young corps this year and should really be pumped to finally win their third Gold Medal in a row in 2016, which is really one thing two other corps have done that BD has failed to do. I know that there are tons of fans out there who are sick of BD winning, but if they have a great program full of vets performing said great program,they will be tough to beat next year. Being from the bay area, and being the proud uncle of a former BD guard member, I do not suffer from BD burn out when it comes to them taking the Gold Medal. I hope Scott Chandler and Jay Murphy can come up with another brilliant idea. One last stat, BD tends to do well in the 6th year of a decade, 1976 Gold Medal,1986 Gold Medal,1996 Gold Medal (shared with Phantom Regiment), 2006 Bronze Medal, 2016 ?.
BD is the only corps that treats the guard like actors on a stage, and they recruit and train kids for years as professional dancers and actors. Some corps are catching them in musical performance but none are able to match them in guard scores. There's just no easy way to do what they do without serious talent and experience.
Their guard approach doesn't translate well to the audience, because let's face it you're sitting half a football field away. But they execute their guard concepts for the judges, who are on the field and watching from 15 yards away.
I personally have enormous respect for them because they have built their entire organization the right way. But it is not good for the activity to have any one corps dominate the way they are. The next four corps are all doing their thing in unique ways, but until the judges see different guard approaches as equal to BD's, I don't expect them to fall beyond the Silver position any time soon.
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1. Cadets
2. BD
3. Crown
4. BK
5. Bluecoats
6. SCV
7. Cavaliers
8. Phantom
9. BAC
10. Scouts
11. Cross men
12. Academy
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The only ones who treat Clara badly are those who can't handle a 10 year old with a ring.
The only ones who treat Clara badly are those who can't handle a 10 year old with a ring.
My guess is DCI made them take it down due to the fact that the last five minutes were video from the show.
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As evidence - here is your sixth place corps - it's final full practice run:
Thanks for posting this. I had to work around the house all day today and listened to this show over and over again. That last sequence near the end may well be the best minute of music and drill of the entire 2015 season. They have such a big, big sound, and their show design is just incredible. Very obvious they have tremendous buy in with the kids, because the way they sell this show is awe inspiring.
Btw there is a video out of this last show on YouTube from a go pro mounted on an age outs head that is also tremendous. Get choked up at the end when all his friends come to him and hug him and you can hear him crying. Just amazing.
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Not sure if anyone brought a decibel meter to finals this year as in years past, but what do you remember as being the loudest brass chord in a show this season? As far as I can tell it's in Crown's show (surprise) in Dies Irae, right before the section with the chromatic runs. It's one of those "oh right, that's what a drum corps can sound like" when you hear it live (4:13 in this video).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfGXJS9GfSk
Any louder this year you can think of? (Maybe Blue Devils at some point in their ballad.)
That just never gets old!
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I think it is crazy that no one is talking about The Cadets in this thread. The odds that they won't have a very different and much more compelling show design next year are 0%. And they will have top five talent every year regardless. The Cadets will medal next year, you can almost write it down in ink (no pun intended).
The corps most likely to feel their heat is probably Bluecoats. Because I won't bet against Crown or Blue Devils in terms of show design or talent.
I am hoping Vanguard makes a move. I just think they have to play more music and do less running around while not playing. It seemed like a huge portion of this years show had no one playing a brass instrument. They have, and will always have, great musicianship.
Cavaliers have to move up, because they probably cannot move down. Sad, but true.
I wish Acadmy could retain top talent. It would be great to have a contender in Phoenix. They seem to know what they want to do from a direction standpoint, sort of a more modern version of Phantom. Thought they would make finals this year.
It's great to see so many corps scoring in th 90s. That is a sign of the true health of th activity.
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For what it is worth, the Nashville show is apparently always one of the best attended of the season, and I have literally never seen or heard one word about the event. And I work in the Nashville media.
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I've been watching the Bluecoats since 2012 and I'm not done watching them yet. They've improved so much and hopefully next year they'll come back with something fresh and innovative and get that gold. If not, I don't think they'll back down until they get there.
The big thing here with Bluecoats and possibly Blue Knights is that they may now see very few members move to Blue Devils, Cadets, SCV or especially Cavaliers or Phantom. That should give them a good shot at moving up, by default, although the reality is BD was very young this year so they are only going to reload.
The corps that needs to be serious this offseason is Vanguard, because with the rise of Bluecoats and BK they are in danger of falling back. And you cannot expect that Cavaliers will remain out of medal contention forever. Scores are rising across the board and for good reason. You can get better but fall back in the competitive rankings.
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At the beginning of the season I didn't think Crown had a chance with the show they had to start, best show of the night, stunning horns and guard, congrats on a great season.
I think most people felt this would be a bit of a down year when they started touring the new show. It shows you how great their staff is at understanding how to design a show and teaching how to execute it throughout the season. They certainly bring the energy from the sidelines and in rehearsals.
I for one am so glad that (at least this year) they almost completely abandoned the trampoline-style of production and went old school.
My only quibble is that their talent level probably could have handled a tougher brass book. They have an awesome wall of sound, but compared to the complexity of BD and Cadets, they were less demanding this year.
Crown has become the new model for how to build a world class corps. Maybe some of the other regional organizations (Music City, SOA) can follow in their steps.
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Thanks for this.
I also thought the scoring for Finals night was a bigger jump than normal. Considering that scores have been general low overall this year, I think DCI may have felt pressure to bring scores back up. Nobody wants to see someone win with a 96 or less.
Maybe I'm getting off topic now, but...
I think DCI had the judges depress the scoring for this year to raise the bar for 99pts, because of what BD did last Finals. They did need to raise that thresh-hold. However, I do think the winning corps this season was worthy of a 97.65 but no more. Some may say "raw numbers are meaningless, it's the spreads that matter", but according to the judging sheet criteriae, a 98+ is not the same as a 97, and I do think the top 4 shows this season general deserved the raw scores they got, and can be compared to the scores they got last season.
BD this season were pretty much 2pts behind themselves last year. Same for everyone else.
I'm not sure how you would put this kind of info into your program, or if this is even relevant.
What I would REALLY like to see is the predictions for scores based on certain judges. What would Finals scores have been, say, if the same judging panel from Thursday or Friday judged Saturday also? What would the computer predict then?
So, question:
Were this the year Bluecoats unveiled Tilt, do they win the gold?
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Every corps has hype trains. People will cheer less for BD because they don't want to see them win again. Best way to sum it up is look at Facebook likes. You can tell the top groups have more fans than lower. Some of those lower groups can be better than the higher but your fan perspective will skew towards the most fans.
Why don't more BD fans participate here? Seems odd that the preeminent organization in the activity would have more fans than anyone else.
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Exactly. Now i will admit Fellini and Ink has gotten alot of praise here on DCP more than 2007-2013 BD shows combined. But still at the end of the day BD will never be the fan favorite cause they have won so much. They can come out and do a show where they are moving 250 bpm the entire show and end with a massive company front that blows the stadium back 3 feet off its foundation, and people will still root for others cause BD has won too much. When you get to the top of the mountain, people love nothing more than to see you get knocked off. Cavies was loved in the early 2000's. But by 2006 you could start to hear groans that they was winning too much.
I completely agree. The thing is, as much as I really hoped Crown would win last night, the Blue Devils organization is the model to which every single corps should aspire. Where would this activity be today without them? I may not like the way they work the sheets, but I certainly have utmost respect for how they compete.
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To me the Cadets made 2 big mistakes this summer (easy to discuss such things in hindsight, which is a little unfair to the corps and its' designers, but...):
- The theme, The Power of 10. They could have called it this, but the way they approached the overly obvious elements of the show was pointless and not very effective when you overlay that on top of Shostakovitch's music. Things like saying numbers that add up to 10, changing the yard line markers, going with neon green because it's the 10th element of the periodic table. Come on, I do not see green when I hear Shostakovitch. Let the music aid you in design, not the gimmicks. The drill was perfect for that music. I still think that was the best drill on the field, and I did like the 10-yard ballad. Very effective.
- Changing the uniforms to all black because they wanted to bring out the neon green and help their guard. Whenever it was planned, and I commend them for taking risks and following through, but that drill needed their traditional colors. They simply should have put the guard in a different outfit from day one.
- Music construction is your forte. All through the winter we were treated to just how good the Cadets put together show music. Keep that going.
- Let your visual program flow from the intent of the music, including a theme if you have one.
- Can't wait to see maroon, gold, and cream again. BUT, if you really want to be daring perhaps do a show in which the corps is in costumes. A different outfit for each person, until mid way through or so, then finish the show in your traditional Cadets west point look.
- Your show was the most demanding on the field, no doubt, but I think that may have cost you a little. Find a balance and perhaps do some staging. The way BD does this is brilliant. I think there are things the Cadets could do, in Cadets fashion, that would be unique and really cool.
- Consider exploring some Ron Nelson "Savannah River Holiday" which is really good American music, or perhaps his "Aspen Jubilee."
- I loved the mostly all-flag work done in the 2014 show. I'm not so wild about rifles and you used them too much this year. More flags!
Great post, couldn't agree more on all counts.
This year I sort of felt as if a The Cadets had an agenda, which was to prove that all these big productions were silly, and they could out-drum corps everyone else and we're going to prove it by selecting a theme that was almost a middle finger of a concept. Some of the greatest shows ever performed in this activity were performed by The Cadets, but the most memorable of those combined their absurdly efficient execution with an equally absurdly powerful concept.
You have to remember that these shows are not only viewed by people, but performed by kids. Give both something to grab onto other than execution.
As much as a have grown to love Bluecoats and Crown, I think Cadets have the best chance to dethrone Blue Devils because they have the depth of talent and experience to out execute BD with a great concept.
I don't say this to rain on George at a low moment. I give him enormous credit because he always chooses to include the fans in their process and truly loves the activity at every level. We just need him to get onto the same stage as BD, BC and CC in show design and slug it out, even in all black uniforms.
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Replace "Crown" and "Bluecoats" with: "Cavaliers" and "SCV" and you pretty much have the late 90's-early 2000's. We all thought that then, too. Especially when Cavies got a run under them for a few years there.
And now look where they are.
There has always been BD (and, to a lesser extent over the past two decades, Cadets). Fortunes of other corps rise and fall. BD goes nowhere. They haven't finished lower than 2nd since 2006, 4th since 1991 and 5th since 1974.
Of the past 10 championships, they have won 6 of them. 60 percent. And still got a medal the rest of the time (usually silver but once). Who lands in the top 3-4 shifts and shuffles every so often but for one thing: BD is there.
I have absolutely no reason to believe that that won't be the case until the end of the activity, or at least until BD's staff goes into mass retirement and they have to rebuild from it. But as long as they're there? And as long as they continue to demonstrate that they have these new DCI sheets completely figured out? I will never bet against them. I'd be a fool to do so.
That's why I think they won't lose again.
The only thing that would comcern me were I DCI is how thoroughly and efficiently BD has figured out their show design relative to the sheets. Just seems like they are going through the motions and DCI rewards them for it every year. There is no doubt they have top drawer talent across the board, but to me all of their shows have the exact same arc and elements.
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I really, really don't think they will though.
My reasoning last year remains: BD has the most consistent staff in the activity, and they have now figured out the sheets so thoroughly that it may as well be science. Until such time as a staff turnover of any real consequence happens there, they will never lose again. They will always attract top players, so the performance captions aren't in doubt. Something else will have to give either through retirement or otherwise. There is zero reason to think they won't 3-peat, then 4-peat and 5-peat and I believe they will do just that.
Dunno. We are seeing three other corps each carve out a unique niche for themselves that is not only appealing to the crowds, but to the kids as well.
Crown is the only world class corps in the south that matters and they have a huge base of talent to draw from. Their reputation is now solidified and I doubt they will rarely finish out of the medals.
Bluecoats are carving out an entirely unique place for themselves and, quite honestly, are killing it in musicianship as well. I don't see them dropping off any time soon. Their best days are ahead of them.
Cadets are cadets. They will always be among the best in every caption and you know George won't let this fourth place finish go unanswered. I would not be surprised to see them win the gold next year with a show that rivals Angels and Demons. They always have that sort of opportunity in them.
There is no doubt the Blue Devils organization is second to none. But the entire activity has taken a huge step up across the board.
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No one is mentioning how close Bluecoats came to winning th Silver tonight. Wow.
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No audio on the YouTube feed? Really?!
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Perhaps it's not that simple. Take a look at the rate of score improvement. BD improved .6 faster than Crowne from prelims to semi's. They were about .7 behind Crown in prelims but cut it to about .1 in semi's. It could be argued that this gap closing was due to the different panel. At this rate of improvement, BD will be .5 AHEAD of Crown in finals. Sometimes looking at raw placement doesn't tell the whole story. This finals panel looks like it favors BD. See my analysis on page 8 here.
Did you factor out the half point penalty?
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When your entire show is based on technical execution, you will be judged accordingly. That was the risk of this show concept, especially when the other four top shows have strong emotional elements where the technical aspects support the concept rather than being the entire concept.
We all love the Cadets historical position in DCI. I just wish their show designs leaned more toward Angels and Demons rather than concepts like 10. Unless you are studying every nuance of their execution, this is not a show that you watch more than twice. There is no question this is the most technically difficult show in the tour this year, but like it or not it is still a show, and you have to be able to create something that gets some kind of emotional reaction if you are going to beat BD, BC and Crown.
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Star 1993 Has Been REPLACED
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
The cost to implement the kind of large scale electronics that Bluecoats did will hinder many corps from doing it. What Star did, any corps could do, with talent and training.